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Muggyman GAI -> PSA crossover PACKS. Problem!

MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Today, (after 47 BUSINESS days) I was very disappointed to get my grades (or lack there of) from PSA for (5) GAI cello packs. These packs were given to PSA in person at The Westchester County Center Show back in August.

They were all in GAI holders and they were ALL submitted to GAI and authenticated at least 5 years ago. PSA did not grade 4 of them and posted them as N9 Not graded. I know for a FACT that one of these packs were from a SEALED CELLO CASE. I am waiting for Jessica at PSA to get back to me after she inquires further. She did offer to say that it was Steve Hart who could not determine one way or the other of its authenticity, not by their head grader. I am very confident about the source of these packs although I can't possibly know the original owners on all of them. I am reluctant to say that GAI was ever accurate or honest (they just happened to lose many of my 1 of 1 packs), but these were graded early on when I submitted similar star packs that came back "NOT AUTHENTIC" from other doomed sources like figurebuyer.

I am waiting to hear back from her, I plan on authorizing them to cut them open to grade them raw.

I am very upset, WTF FACE?


1 1 17298245 N9: NOT GRADED 1984 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BOTTOM .... was GAI 9
2 1 17298246 N9: NOT GRADED 1985 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BACK ....was GAI 8
3 1 17298247 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK REGGIE JACKSON-TOP ....was GAI 8
4 1 17298248 N9: NOT GRADED 1982 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK NOLAN RYAN-TOP & BOTTOM ..... was GAI 9
5 1 17298249 N9: NOT GRADED 1987 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK BARRY BONDS-TOP & BOTTOM .... was GAI 9

Comments

  • Tedw9Tedw9 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭
    Ouch! image

    I have one pack I would love crossed over, but I am afraid to because of that very reason.

    Keep this thread updated please, I really want to know how this works out.
    Looking for Carl Willey items.
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    Ouch.
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭


    << <i>She did say that it was Steve Hart that stated they could not tell one way or the other of its authenticity, not their head grader. >>



    Mugsterrrrrrrrr ... I believe Steve is THE person to say if it's authentic or not. THEN it goes to PSA for an assigned grade.

    I sure hope you get these results reversed!
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • CNoteCNote Posts: 2,070 ✭
    Yeah, Steve is THE man that makes the call...
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    It's not like they were a GAI 11.5, they have to define N9 for me. I know they get sent to Steve first, I was very confident about that.

    I wonder what will happen when I submit these all raw...
  • jswietonjswieton Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭
    Muggyman, that really sucks and I can feel your pain. I have sub'ed a couple early 70's packs that were rejected that came out of legit boxes. I know that Steve will always authenticate on the side of caution when looking at these extremely uncommon packs.

    I would probably wait a while before cracking them and re-sending them into PSA. Unlike cards, there is only one authenticator (bbce). I am sure Steve doesn't get a ton of these packs and would reject them again if you send them back right away. In all honesty, you are probably better off leaving them in the GAI holder if you ever plan on selling them in the future.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Who authenticates BBCE's packs?
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    The Baseball Card Exchange has been a full time sports card dealer since 1990. We have bought and sold millions of dollars worth of unopened material and PSA graded material!! Everything we sell is guaranteed 100% unsearched and fresh. We are always looking to purchase items for our inventory. Please contact us if you have anything to sell! Thanks! Steve Hart - Owner
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    And, whatever happen to The Baseball Card Kid / Mark Murphy? Reputable still?

    I found it a conflict of interest when I had sent him (directly) raw packs for GAI submissions. Oh, and then his fire lost all my packs.
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭


    << <i>And, whatever happen to The Baseball Card Kid / Mark Murphy? Reputable still?

    I found it a conflict of interest when I had sent him (directly) raw packs for GAI submissions. Oh, and then his fire lost all my packs. >>



    What are you saying? You sent packs to GAI and they said they were destroyed in a fire?
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    100%!

    I don't know remember how many years ago (2002-3? maybe) when I first started sending in packs to GAI but, I sent many orders directly to Mark's house in Connecticut. GAI allowed customers to send them directly to him first.

    Whenever that fire happened, all I know is I had 11 packs in there, I actually think I got some back water damaged. and, the others... POOF!

    At least they gave me some GAI vouchers.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Muggy,

    I'd recommend submitting your GAI packs raw next time. On the other hand, I'm always VERY skeptical when I see a pack with a key card on the front AND back of a pack, or even more extreme, the same key card on both front and back. The odds of that happening are so remote that I would not personally bid on an item like that unless I knew I knew for a fact that it came out of a sealed case.

    I remember well the fire Murphy had when he was back on the East Coast. A LOT of product was ruined during that incident and Mark never really recovered from that as an unopened dealer.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Thanks grote15, thanks everyone!

    There are only 396 cards in the '84 football set. The odds that a card would be on front and back are 1/396 x 1/396 = 1 in 156,816 packs. That comes out to about 1 in every 408 cellos cases (16 boxes). Yes, sounds like a lot, but Topps produced a lot more than that. They have to exist and I am confident with my sources of these packs.

    It is hard to believe that GAI graded all 5 of these cello packs and PSA would only grade one of them. I will be speaking to them today to learn more about the N9 grade I received. Is this something I could ever reach out to Steve directly about?

    This is an important issue regarding UNOPENED PACKS and how PSA views GAI packs. It would be nice if you could speak to an expert or someone who can explain it a little bit better than a "customer service" rep.

    PSA said that I will be getting vouchers and it's not like they charge me and don't grade them as they do with altered cards, etc. Oh the joy.

    Did you ever see this video I made? It is the 12 packs (some crossover, some raw) now at PSA that won't POP for another month+.
    Muggy youtube PSA submission
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭


    << <i>Did you ever see this video I made? It is the 12 packs (some crossover, some raw) now at PSA that won't POP for another month+.
    Muggy youtube PSA submission >>



    I just watched it. Did I win yet?????? LMAO!
    Good luck with all the submissions.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    STAY HEALTHY Doug-ee Fresh!
  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭✭
    If you're not a Muggyman fan, you will be after watching this video! That was fun! image
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If you're not a Muggyman fan, you will be after watching this video! That was fun! image >>



    I agree! Muggyman seems like he is be a blast to hang out with, haha!
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Thanks jeffcbay and MULLINS5!

    Yes, that video was obviously so much fun. I wish I came home to another package like that today!
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Well, I heard back from Jessica at PSA and had a nice conversation with her.

    The head grader basically told her that they (Steve) cannot 100% determine (while in the GAI holders) if these packs have been compromised in any way. N9 does not mean ALTERED!

    I am rolling the dice and having them cut open the 4 packs...

    ---------------
    Her follow-up email...
    Per our conversation, please give authorization to remove the 4 packs from the GAI holders and have PSA grade them as is. Please confirm that you understand if we feel that they have been altered in anyway they will not be holdered and will be returned as raw packs.

    Thank you,
    Jessica Kormeluk
    PSA Customer Service
    ---------------
    My reply...
    Authorized, understood, thank you!
    ---------------

    This should be interesting, stay tuned UNOPENED PACK collectors...

    17298245 N9: NOT GRADED 1984 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BOTTOM .... was GAI 9
    17298246 N9: NOT GRADED 1985 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BACK ....was GAI 8
    17298248 N9: NOT GRADED 1982 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK NOLAN RYAN-TOP & BOTTOM ..... was GAI 9
    17298249 N9: NOT GRADED 1987 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK BARRY BONDS-TOP & BOTTOM .... was GAI 9


    Thank you for all the encouragement.

    Elway / Marino PLEASE!
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!imageimageimage

    POPPED AS IN POP CORN IN ONE DAY SINCE I AUTHORIZED THEM TO OPEN THEM! ALL AUTHENTIC! MARINO RC TOP / ELWAY BACK PSA 9 BABY!


    17298245 MINT 9 1984 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BOTTOM
    17298246 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1985 TOPPS FOOTBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK MARINO-TOP/ELWAY-BACK
    17298247 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK REGGIE JACKSON-TOP
    17298248 MINT 9 1982 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK NOLAN RYAN-TOP & BOTTOM
    17298249 MINT 9 1987 TOPPS BASEBALL CELLO PACK CELLO PACK BARRY BONDS-TOP & BOTTOM

    G bless you all!
  • Tedw9Tedw9 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭
    SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Congrats Muggy! Those are incredible grades on awesome packs!
    Looking for Carl Willey items.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Congrats indeed!

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    That's what I'm talking about.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Word up MULLINS5, thanks WinPitcher and Tedw9; I hope I get you for Secret Santa!

    One day after they cut open the GAI packs, UNBELIEVABLE! I checked PSA's website as a joke..

    What does that mean, how do we explain this to the unopened packs industry?

    So freakin happy! Which emotion is that dancing banana?
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now does this start a debate if GAI had some legit grading?

    Muggyman watched a few of your Youtube video's great stuff!

    Really happy to read this had such a great outcome!
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    GAI had to have some legit grading at some point - it is an imperfect profession/hobby I guess. But even when they did, they would mysteriously lose some of my packs. The good packs! I remember in the peak years of Barry Bonds, my GAI 10 1987 Fleer cello pack w/Bonds on top was last seen in the shipping department and never made it to me. I hope the guy who stole it still has it and just woke up to find out that he can only get about 50 bucks for it! And, it was quite odd how my friend's 1989 Fleer rackpack with a GRIFFEY RC, RANDY JOHNSON RC, and SHEFFIELD RC all on top together wound up getting auctioned off from somewhere in California? I think he eventually "bought it back" from someone actually... GAI probably gave him a voucher for their misplacement!

    Back to GAI/PSA pack grading... Steve leans more towards caution which is great and can't be complained about, but I knew I had legit packs. This is not the first time that PSA has not authenticated my GAI packs - this just happened to be the 1st time I said, "cut that she ayght open!"

    Thanks Dpeck100, another Muggyman video and FREE PACK GIVEAWAY is way overdue, I'll work on one very soon!

  • jswietonjswieton Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭
    Wow, that is incredible!! That is really cool the PSA took the time to make this right. Some of those packs are truly 1/1's. WTG!!
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The majority of GAI graded packs in first generation holders are absolutely authentic...I've opened enough to know this for a fact and I've been collecting unopened packs for many years now..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Muggy,

    Congrats on the grades!

    image


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • Tedw9Tedw9 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭


    << <i>The majority of GAI graded packs in first generation holders are absolutely authentic...I've opened enough to know this for a fact and I've been collecting unopened packs for many years now.. >>



    I've heard that a few times and people have described them, but can anyone post a picture of a first generation GAI holder so we can see exactly what it looks like?

    Again, congrats Muggy, I am thrilled it all worked out for you! And how about some pics of those packs when they arrive? image
    Looking for Carl Willey items.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    I am not sure what "generation" these are and if these pictures will help, but I do know that these packs were very early on, 'probably from 2004+/-.
    image
    image
  • leathtechleathtech Posts: 3,191 ✭
    congrats! Nice poppage!
    image
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    NOW SEE THIS, NOW SEE THIS...
    Muggyman youtube (3:30) displays the afformentioned graded PSA packs w/ FREE PACKS GIVEAWAY!!!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    $362.65 elway/marino psa 9
  • HeritageAddictHeritageAddict Posts: 3,266
    I'll say $350.00
    Cut Auto Cards 4 sale

    My Registry Sets
  • tsalems1tsalems1 Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $298.50
    opcbaseball.com
  • OAKESY25OAKESY25 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
    $417
  • SportsamericaSportsamerica Posts: 990 ✭✭
    $517
    Cory
    ----------------------
    Working on:
    Football
    1973 Topps PSA 8+ (99.81%)
    1976 Topps PSA 9+ (36.36%)
    1977 Topps PSA 9+ (100%)

    Baseball
    1938 Goudey (56.25%)
    1951 Topps Redbacks PSA 8 (100%)
    1952 Bowman PSA 7+ (63.10%)
    1953 Topps PSA 5+ (91.24%)
    1973 Topps PSA 8+ (70.76%)
    1985 Fleer PSA 10 (54.85%)
  • BunkerBunker Posts: 3,926 ✭
    455.00
    image

    My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)

    JDRF Donation
  • hhmag70hhmag70 Posts: 2,107
    $275
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    393.06

    Thanks, Muggy!


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    OVER!

    Now 8 guesses (+1 on youtube), thanks for watching!

    As promised, the winner is...........
    Sportsamerica!

    In my excel spread sheet (my inventory of all packs), I have this pack worth $500. I believe I would get that on ebay. It is truly a 1 of 1 pack and something like this you can name your own price.

    Sportsamerica... Congratulations!!! pm me your address, they are in the mail to ya! (This was not The Price as Right, going over is allowed!)

    He guessed $513, I had the number $500 as "my/the answer."

    He wins, YEAY!!!!

    Thanks for playin and your support, there will be another Muggyman 1 of 1 video and FREE PACK GIVEAWAY soon...


  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭
    Congrats on getting those in PSA slabs...

    leaves me having more questions about the grading process...

    especially reviews...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    The same people that are grading are selling packs???? Not something I want a part of at all.
  • Tedw9Tedw9 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭
    No, Steve Hart just authenticates the packs to make sure they have not been tampered with. PSA are the ones who grade them.
    Looking for Carl Willey items.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    Authenticating is the most important part....not grades because the wrapper is off center. I again would not deal in this. People are putting all their eggs in 1 basket.

    I heard only wonderful things about Mike Baker for a long time....now as for the last five years??????? Just an example
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