What Would You Rather Own? Want To Learn?

wondercoin

Pure hypothetical. What would you rather own a PCGS-MS67RD 1963(d) Lincoln Cent or a nice "rare" Trade Dollar worth $2500 retail? For example, an AU55/58 1873(cc) Trade Dollar is usually available for less than my $2500 budget. Which coin would you rather have TDN? My answer follows all of yours Wondercoin

kieferscoins

A nice "rare" Trade dollar. You don't see that design in change compared to the Lincoln cent.

Cameron Kiefer

wondercoin

Cameron: Remember, it is always a good idea to include analysis before coming to your conclusion. Anyone have anything constructive to add with perhaps some analysis included? Wondercoin

coynclecter

Which would I rather "own" or which would I rather "have" The 1963 Lincoln is rarer in 67 so I like to have that so I could sell it.

But when I'm locked in the comfort of my own room the question is " do I feel better knowing I have a penny no none else has" or would I rather be looking at a coin with history and a beautiful design (sorry lincoln penny don't make it as beautiful for me).

This is a no brainer for me, give me the old trade dollar.

tradedollarnut

I would rather have my $2500 in the bank than own either. I have no need for an AU 73CC trade dollar other than to use it as an example of how skewed PCGS's weighting system is for the Registry. I have no need for a 1963d MS67 Memorial cent other than to wonder how stupid some people are to believe that there aren't dozens of them sitting out there in all those original rolls and mint state bags. What I'd really like is for you to quit making wild statements that are really backdoor hype and inciting "us vs them" (modern vs classic) tiffs.

mrpaseo

coynclecter summed it up nicely. Being a Lincoln collector, I would love to own the Lincoln. However, the Trade dollar has the history and the stories to go with it. There may be other Lincolns out there this date and grade that is not slabbed yet, and the trade dollar may not have so many Brother and Sistars out there.

Hmmmm. Not counting the dollar value (Never a factor when deciding which free coin to have)

I would like the Trade dollar for the History and stories.

For my sets I would rather the Lincoln....

Decisions, decision, decision....OK, what do you want for both of them....lol.

I guess it would depend on what I was doing with my collection at the time. If it were right now, I am trying to build my Lincoln sets, I would have to take the Lincoln...and that is my final answer.

Also, currently the Trade dollar does not fit within my coin collection theme, again I would have to go with tyhe Lincoln.

Thanks for the question,
Ray

KoinKollector

Id take the TD, HANDS DOWN . Why? I like the design over a Lincoln, its from a mint full of history & its a "seated" coin.....

dbldie55

The Trade Dollar, even one that is not "rare". I would rather have a circulated Liberty Nickel than a 1963-D Lincoln. Now if you want to give me one, I would sell it in a heartbeat (as I would not want to own one), and put the money into something I would be proud to have.

Edited to add: Why do you need an analysis? The question was which would "I" rather own. Monetary value has nothing to do with what I would rather own. The most valuable two coins in my entire collection are two common date, circulated silver dollars. These were gifts from my grandfather, and have a much higher value to me than the Pop 1 DCAM Liberty Nickel I own. What are the odds that many original rolls of 1963-D Lincoln Cents are out there? Why aren't people lining up at PCGS's door step with these? (who is going to spend $15 to certify a coin worth 1 cent!) Give them time, and I would bet more are made, but you will not find a hidden cache of "rare" Trade Dollars (or common ones I would bet).

mrpaseo

So, tradedollarnut, your saying you would go for the Trade dollar? Your words are a little confusing, maybe you could clear it up for us...lol

Have a wonderful week end every one and the Happiest of Easters...

Ray

coynclecter

Wondercoin, let’s do a little analysis, starting with “why would I buy a coin?
This starts with “what makes up a coin”

A)Type
B)Date
C)Grade
D)Variety
E)??

So first we need to ask a few questions, mainly “why buy?”

When you hand over the cash…

Are you buying to fill a set?
Are you buying because you like the design and you want to look at the coin?
Are you buying because it’s rare (date or grade) and it feels good to have something that is rare or unique?
Are you buying the history that comes with the coin?
Are you buying because you think you can sell it for more money (short term sale)?
Are you buying because you expect it to increase in value?

When we buy its either emotional or analytical. Most often we buy with the emotion and then we justify it with the analytical.

One question I ask myself is “ If I could never sell this coin, would this be the coin I would want to own.”

pop1

You could go through the borse floor at an ANA show, and see many, many trade dollars of this ilk. You will not see that penny available at any table at the show.

KoinKollector

Which would you rather have:

this mythical memorial cent

OR

THE finest known 1885 TD....



I wonder how many would actually pic the lincoln.... ANYONE?

BRdude

I would without a doubt take the $2500 and buy the 34S I need so badly and can't really afford

shirohniichan

Why even couch the argument in the "modern" vs. "classic" tizzy going around? Why not make it, "Would you rather have an 1878-S Morgan in PCGS MS-67 or an original 1836 Gobrecht dollar in EF?"

If you collect Morgans, you'll choose the former. If you collect seated coins, you'll choose the latter. That's pretty simple.

If you were to rephrase the question as to which would better hold its value after a market crash, I'd bet on the Gobrecht in my scenario or the trade dollar in wondercoin's scenario.

I've looked at coin prices going back to the '70's to see general trends, and one thing I've noticed is that absolute rarity coins don't move up or down nearly as much as grade rarities or fads. David Bowers wrote an article asking whether it was better to own $10,000 in modern rolls or a $10,000 bust dollar. He came to the conclusion that he'd rather own the latter. I agree with him.

coynclecter

<< <i>You could go through the borse floor at an ANA show, and see many, many trade dollars of this ilk. You will not see that penny available at any table at the show. >>



Let's clarify , POP1, I see lincoln pennies in my pocket

You don't SEE a rare date/grade lincoln. You see a lincoln and you know it's a rare date/grade. If I like to look at a mint condition lincoln I can go to the bank or buy a dozen proof sets. It's knowing it's graded higher than any other that is the attraction, not the look.

How often do you get to see mint state Trade Dollar?? How many people can actually own one until are all taken.

pop1

The arguement isn't what you find in your pockets. It's a discussion of finding these coins in their appropriate pcgs holder. The appreciation of the rarity of a '63d memorial penny, for instance, is in its condition. Find an ms67 in your pocket, then let us know.

perfectstrike

Hmmm. The Trade Dollar exists, so I know it can be had. We also have a pretty good idea what the existing population is. There aren't many new hoards likely to surface.

I recently searched about 20 rolls of 1963-D Lincolns without finding a MS67 (I'll see if PCGS agrees in a month or so). I've got a mostly unsearched mint bag too, but all the strikes are so weak there might never be a MS67. On the other hand, if I make one, I'll probably make a second.

I'd take the Trade Dollar and be happy with the MS66 Lincoln.

David (Lincoln collector)

gmarguli

You could go through the borse floor at an ANA show, and see many, many trade dollars of this ilk. You will not see that penny available at any table at the show.

The same could be said for a 1971 Lincoln cent in PCGS MS64RB. I am positive you will not find one of these at any show. I guess that makes the one <cough> POP 1 <cough> I have a super rarity and worth owning. And to think I have it in a junk box on my floor.

I'll be taking offers on this POP 1 coin - and remember we all know that POP 1 coins are super coins. They are never ugly.

I'm willing to trade this super rarity to the first forum member that will offer ANY PCGS slabbed Trade Dollar. There is only one available, so please hurry.

pop1

Thanks, Dave. There are others who have looked though 63d bags, and not found an ms67. They, as you have done, will tell you of their relative rarity. I understand that to the unknowledgable, a penny is just a penny, but the '63d example is a rare bird indeed.

kieferscoins

<< <i>Anyone have anything constructive to add with perhaps some analysis included? >>



Here is my "constructive" analysis:

I would rather own any coin not in circulation, than a coin with the same design that I use every day. Even if their values are the same, the trade dollar would be my pick.

Cameron Kiefer

pop1

That is a fine personal opinion, but doesn't address the relative rarity of some coins that are currently in circulation. In time, the rarity will become obvious.

dbldie55

Thread Title: "What Would You Rather Own? Want To Learn?"

Why do you have to give an analytic reason for your answer?

CarlWohlforth

Short term I'd buy the one I could sell for the most, then I'd sell it. I already have one Trade Dollar and several Lincolns, there are other coins I'd rather have.

Long term, if I got to choose one then couldn't sell it for 20 years I'd pick the Trade Dollar. There have only been 47 1963-D's graded by PCGS. There were over a billion made. 1,774,020,400 to be more precise. Now I haven't looked at even one bag but it still seems likely that others will be found. After all there are 6 in MS 66 RD. (all numbers from the Jan pop report).

KoinKollector

What would you rather own:

1. An AU 1963-D lincoln

OR

2. An AU 1873-CC TD





lets level the playing field Mitch.

KoinKollector

Ok... Lets be fair...


What would you rather own:

1. A 1963-D PCGS MS67RD Lincoln

OR

2. A 1873-CC PCGS MS67 TD, You know what... lets say a MS65....

pop1

With respect, I can't imagine anyone having a worthy opinion without any knowledge or experience with these coins.

dbldie55

pop1: Then why was the question posed? Just because no one agrees with you does not make him or her unknowledgeable! Do you have an upper level degree in Statistics? Why is your opinion "right", while others are not?

The question was "What Would You Rather Own?", not which one is a "better" coin and give a detailed analytical reason for your answer. (which many have given very good reasoning as to why the TD is the better coin)

pop1

Oh. I thought the important question was "Want to Learn?" Learning takes experience and an ability to listen. If you think the ms67 '63d penny isn't rare, probably more rare than the comparative TD mentioned, than you may need to be a bit more experienced.

shirohniichan

There were over a billion made. 1,774,020,400 to be more precise.

I didn't realize the 1963-D was so rare.

pop1

Over 10,000 posts and you don't realize that we are talking about RELATIVE rarity of a specific grade '63d penny? I guess you were just joking.

dbldie55

What does rarity have to do with this? As Greg said, his MS64RB cent is "rare", but who cares? You can rant day in and day out about how "great" a 1963-D cent is, and I still consider it a cent. My opinion is just that, my opinion, and you are not going to change it with some "great wisdom".

I am not saying your opinion is wrong either, I am only saying that you are not going to change my opinion, and that is what was asked (my opinion)!

I hope when we get the "great wisdom" it includes a detailed trend in number of submissions of the "famous" 1963-D cent. (There were 3 graded as of April 1994, and 10 by July 1998.) The biggest cause of this "great rarity" is that no one is spending $15 a coin to send them in to be graded. Now with the registry, there is a reason to try and make these, where in the past there was not.

Ask the same question in 5 years!

gmarguli

With respect, I can't imagine anyone having a worthy opinion without any knowledge or experience with these coins.

Please tell us your experience with these coins. How many bags or rolls of these coins have you personally searched thru? I just want to get an idea of how worthy your opinion is.

pop1

With respect, I can't imagine anyone having a worthy opinion without any knowledge or experience with these coins. Want to learn?

pop1

Bags and bags of these devastatingly frustrating little thingies. I wasted many, many hours looking for the elusive ms67. Believe me, they don't come in pristine condition by any stretch of the imagination. PS. I had the (unregistered) #2 penny set. I decided to sell them because Stu had such a "lock" on new material.

KoinKollector

please find me a MS65 1873-CC trade $.

coynclecter

I searched through 10 rolls of bank wrapped 1970D lincolns and under a 5X they were the most marked up coins I had seen in a long time. None that I would have bought as an MS65 if they were gold. I will agree that there probable is very , very few MS66RD or better 1963d pennies and very likely there will not be many more.


But it's still a common date lincoln, no history, no beauty and in Mint State, no rarity.

If I want a well preserved Lincoln to look at, I'd buy a proof

gmarguli

Let's say you went thru 200 bags or 1,000,000 of these coins. That's only 1/1774. That's only .000053637 of the total population. Is that enough to say that there aren't hundreds of MS67s out there just waiting to be found?

How many of the 1873-CC Trade dollars have been searched thru? Probably 95%+ (considering that there are most likely some sitting out there in old collections just waiting to be found).

If "we are talking about RELATIVE rarity of a specific grade '63d penny" then shouldn't that be qualified by stating how many were made and how many MILLIONS are still out there just waiting to be searched thru?

I'm not dismissing the fact that these are hard to find in nice condition. I've searched many rolls with no success. However, one has to take into account the total unsearched population.

pop1

I think the real question is how many bags are left. Who saved '63d bags of pennies? I have looked through a small percentage of those coins minted but you must agree that the greater percentage of those coins are now circulated.

shirohniichan

Over 10,000 posts and you don't realize that we are talking about RELATIVE rarity of a specific grade '63d penny? I guess you were just joking.

Me joke?! Preposterous!

I'm glad you brought up that point-- we're talking about RELATIVE rarity of a SPECIFIC GRADE '63 cent. Why not ask-- "Which would you rather have, a 1913 Liberty Nickel in MS-65 or a 1963-D in MS-67?" Anyone who preferred the 1913 Nickel might as well stop collecting and wear a dunce cap because the 1963-D is rarer than it (in the specific grade). Why would anyone want a measly MS-65 1913 Liberty nickel when there's at least one in a better grade when he could hae a pop1 1963-D Lincoln? Ignorance-- sheer ignorance.

pop1

To ignore, or distort the relative rarity arguement is sheer ignorance. Agreed.

gmarguli

Ignorance-- sheer ignorance.

I agree. Everyone knows the 1913 Liberty Nickel was minted in proof and not mint state.

pop1

Yes, and we could "stretch" the arguement to include a lot of rare coins, but the topic of this thread was very specific, comparing a TD in a similar price range. Any other coin's comparison is superfluous.

lordmarcovan

The Trade Dollar, hands down. I almost thought this was a trick question.

After reading some of the other replies, I see the "meat" of the question, and now see why the Lincoln would be an alternative for some. Not for me, though.

shirohniichan

What is the price of a '63-D in MS-66? What about 65? A nice '73-CC TD goes for $2,500 in AU-58, and it drops to about $1,500 in AU-53.

coynclecter

BTW

If rarity is the determinant of value, I have a PR64DCAM Kennedy Accent Hair. Less than 40 graded higher. I would gladly trade it for any Mint State $3 gold and there are over 5000 of them graded.

cosmicdebris

Since I do not own a Trade Dollar that's what I would choose. The Lincoln cent would only bring me monatary value since I would sell it to Mitch who would buy it in a heart beat. The trade dollar I could treasure forever just for the beauty of the coin itself.

dbldie55

I think the point is going to be that if you choose the TD, then you are wrong! We will then learn why we should not collect what we like, but what someone else is claiming to be the better coin to collect.

A pop1 Lincoln Cent may always remain pop1, always be a grade rarity, but will still just be a Lincoln cent to many (most?). Rarity does not directly mean desireability, and never has.

No one claims that if you think a 1963-D cent is the "must have" coin that you are wrong either. All that has been pointed out is that almost everyone who answered the question of this thread do not agree with that statement. You cannot force someone (or learn them) to collect what they have no desire to collect.

I cannot wait for the punch line to see why we should all dream of 1963-D Lincoln cents.

It should also be pointed out that you can only realize this tremendous value if you sell. If you collect to keep, then what it can be sold for now is irrelevant.

tradedollarnut

KoinKollector: Here's the only known MS65 1873CC Trade Dollar - all I have left is the picture because I just traded it in on a MS67 1963D cent!

keithdagen

OK, going with the Trade Dollar here. Simple reason, want one for my Complete Type Set and finding a nice AU-58 piece with eye appeal has been a real pain in the rear.

Keith

KoinKollector

TDN,
hehehe..... Id show you my MS66... but its out at ACG getting regraded along w/ my MS70RD 1963-D lincoln

dbldie55

When are we going to learn about this? Guess the Trade Dollar wins without a fight.