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A Gripe with the Redbook regarding Bashlow 'restrike' of the Confederate Cent

ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
OK. A few things we know. CSA original cents were never in the South. No Confederate knew they existed at the time they were made. There are 12 of them and they each cost as much as a 3 bedroom Rancher. CSA Restikes...were made by Haseltine in 1874 from the dies (which were never in the south)...and he made about 70. These cost as much as a nice second hand Rolls Royce. After the dies broke, he cancelled them out with chisel cuts...then let them rust.

Robert Bashlow...in 1961, obtained the damaged dies, resurfaced them gently, had AG Frank in Philadelphia make exact transfer die copies of them...and stuck a series of test pieces, along with 20,000 bronze, 5,000 silver and 5,000 goldine (brass alloy) pieces. He then donated the original dies to the Smithsonian (rather than just stick the damaged originals in a press and use them till they crumbled).

He marketed these for years, they were sold by various dealers since then...and now many of them are still out there, in nice collector condition. NGC recognizes them, and slabs them, giving some the highest grades..and yes many (I have nine) are still in the paper and plastic slabs they were originally sold in.

THESE pieces are the closest the average collector is EVER going get to own a Confederate Coin. Ebay prices have been on the upswing for a few years, going from about $30 for the bronze pieces and $100 for the silver and goldine...up to slabbed examples now trading at a bit below $200. The entire three piece set has sold for over $700. With the 150th anniversary of the Civil War nearly here...there is no reason to suspect interest in these pieces will decline at all.

YET....Good Old Redbook. Stodgy, old, musty, somewhat behind the times...Redbook.

Heres what they have to say regarding the Bashlow Restrike "Circa 1961 the dies were copied by Robert Bashlow. These show die cracks and rust marks which distinguish them from earlier copies. They have very little numismatic value".

HUH???? they have very little numismatic value. ??? They let the collector hold a near copy, double thickness..of one of the most historic coins that never quite made it. They are as close as 99.9% of collectors will ever get to a CSA cent and by virtue of their distinctive appearance and lack of COPY stamped on them...are unique in their own respect. Now, Fifty years later....the prices on this three piece set is breaking $700, with single bronze examples selling anywhere from a base low of $100 to over $200. HOW in any way shape or form does this not constitute numismatic value, either in a historic context or in a monetary basis.

If they want to go the "very little numismatic value" in a dollar route...well, then, with the exception of doubled dies, and restruck mintmarks...they can ELIMINATE the entire listings for ALL Jefferson Nickels, Roosevelt Dimes, Kennedy Half Dollars, Ike Dollars, SBA Dollars......because, in a sheer Dollar basis, the Bashlow CSA cent has each and every coin from all *ALL* of these series, in any grade published, beat. BEAT.

And, from a historic standpoint.....You can hold this coin that says CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA. You can see the wreath on the reverse, made up of the crops that sustained the South. You can read that historic date.....1861. Thats value to me. And since numismatics and history go hand in hand....the numismatic value of this piece in that respect again outweighs all of the above series.

As always..this RANT is my opinion. Others will, as usual, disagree...and that is their right.

But, I say again, the Bashlow Restrike should be explained, imaged, mintages published, values given (using recent data) and these coins after fifty years SHOULD get the respect they deserve in time for the 150th anniversary of the War.


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Comments

  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    They do have little value when you compare them to a three bedroom house.

    Did you know PCGS will not grade them? (I know I tried and the sent it back ungrade.)

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2016 5:28AM
    @fcloud said:

    Did you know PCGS will not grade them? (I know I tried and the sent it back ungrade.)


    PCGS will grade the Haseltine restrikes.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why doesn't someone post an entry for the Bashlow coins to CoinFacts Wiki and see what they say?
  • so NGC do -and PCGS don't ............

    just so somebody doz my 1964-D Dollars image
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the coin were listed in Redbook, even as a Bashlow copy ...PCGS *would* then slab it, Im fairly certain on that.

    I had one in my pocket for two months...trying to make a nice circulated brown coin...and by accident, spent it! The prices soared since then and I cant bear to unwrap a MS virgin and pocket it.....
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    They belong in a specialty publication. The Red Book is too general for more than a short mention...in this case, it says enough to warn a reader that they don't have a $50,000 "Confederate Cent."
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. Redbook has all kinds of odd and esoteric coins listed...far more obscure and less available to the general collector than this piece which is numerous, popular and available.

    The people who run into the baslow coin are exactly the people who read and use the Redbook.
  • I recently bought my first Redbook, and I kind of thought the same thing. It didn't affect how sweet my Bashlow is, though. image

    So do I need to be stocking up on Bashlows in case Redbook officially recognizes them?
    Collector of Confederate currency

    Quondo omni flunkus moritati
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree the CSA cents are noteworthy and information would be of more value to general collectors and students of American History than many other pieces. Due to popular interest, I think the Bashlows are definitely worthy of mention if the Haseltines are mentioned.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD >>



    maybe the Carr '64-D Peace Dollar will be in the 2060 Redbook???


  • << <i>

    << <i>The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD >>



    maybe the Carr '64-D Peace Dollar will be in the 2060 Redbook??? >>




    oh yeah ! hope I'm alive in 2060 to see it
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD >>



    I agree that the Bashlow restrikes have as much right to be in the Redbook as the 1804 and 1823 "restrike" large cents.

    Perhaps we need to bring this to Dentuck's attention!

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have already brought the thread to Ken Bressett's attention.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Red Book is often slow to react to changes like this.

    For many years, the Bashlow copies were worth very little. I can remember when New Jersey dealer John Weeks had several dozen of the Bashlow pieces in copper, and they were a drug on the market at $6 a piece. Now I'm surprised to see the asking price on them.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Red Book is often slow to react to changes like this.

    For many years, the Bashlow copies were worth very little. I can remember when New Jersey dealer John Weeks had several dozen of the Bashlow pieces in copper, and they were a drug on the market at $6 a piece. Now I'm surprised to see the asking price on them. >>



    Agreed. But now is a good time for the Redbook to be updated on the value of the Bashlow restrikes. After all, a lot more people own Bashlow restrikes than own originals plus Haseltine restrikes combined!

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭
    Interesting thoughts and analysis. Thank you for sharing your passion for these pieces. We'll be discussing the Bashlow restrikes (among other Red Book topics) in editorial meetings in the coming weeks.



  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The Red Book is often slow to react to changes like this.

    For many years, the Bashlow copies were worth very little. I can remember when New Jersey dealer John Weeks had several dozen of the Bashlow pieces in copper, and they were a drug on the market at $6 a piece. Now I'm surprised to see the asking price on them. >>



    Agreed. But now is a good time for the Redbook to be updated on the value of the Bashlow restrikes. After all, a lot more people own Bashlow restrikes than own originals plus Haseltine restrikes combined! >>



    I think that 50 years is a good minimum to wait before listing questionable pieces, such as the 1964-D dollars, lest others be encouraged to make more.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the OP about them being very interesting. Kinda like the 64-D $ is interesting. They are interesting conversation pieces/tokens or whatever...but that is about it imho. I believe Redbook is also referred to as "A Guide Book of United States Coins". The Redbook has gone further than that and does try to discuss the history of many things and brings tokens into the picture a bit. They also discuss restrikes that the US MINT has produced....legally/illegally etc....along with a couple of others not produced by the mint. So, if you are a collector of US COINS then I would say this item has little numismatic value since it is not a US COIN....it is something that was produced by some guy. As a token, conversation piece, something you can hold in your hand of some historical value....sure, it's cool to some. In the end, it is not a US COIN though.

    All the discussion about the DC 1964-D Peace....should not even be discussed in these forums because these forums are for US COINS....and that is NOT a US COIN....and is only worth melt. My 2 cents. image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2016 5:22AM
    @BillJones said:

    The Red Book is often slow to react to changes like this.

    For many years, the Bashlow copies were worth very little. I can remember when New Jersey dealer John Weeks had several dozen of the Bashlow pieces in copper, and they were a drug on the market at $6 a piece. Now I'm surprised to see the asking price on them.


    I think two things contributed to this: Ebay and NGC. Ebay improved the ability of connecting dealers with these pieces with collectors that want them. NGC gave them more legitimacy which may help collectors that are more affected by the, sometimes, vocal detractors that say the pieces are "worthless." You can see how Ebay and NGC affects prices with other pieces as well.


  • << <i>I agree with the OP about them being very interesting. Kinda like the 64-D $ is interesting. They are interesting conversation pieces/tokens or whatever...but that is about it imho. I believe Redbook is also referred to as "A Guide Book of United States Coins". The Redbook has gone further than that and does try to discuss the history of many things and brings tokens into the picture a bit. They also discuss restrikes that the US MINT has produced....legally/illegally etc....along with a couple of others not produced by the mint. So, if you are a collector of US COINS then I would say this item has little numismatic value since it is not a US COIN....it is something that was produced by some guy. As a token, conversation piece, something you can hold in your hand of some historical value....sure, it's cool to some. In the end, it is not a US COIN though.

    All the discussion about the DC 1964-D Peace....should not even be discussed in these forums because these forums are for US COINS....and that is NOT a US COIN....and is only worth melt. My 2 cents. image >>



    I do not entirely disagree with your argument, however, there are plenty of threads on this forum that don't deal specifically with a US Coin, but they may deal with some aspect of collecting US coins that many of us find interesting. The threads concerning the background and current status of the production of D.Carr's fantasy pieces are obviously interesting to some, or else they wouldn't keep popping up.
    I believe they are not out of place in a general US coin collecting discussion, especially when comparing them to the finish and details of genuine Peace dollars. In my opinion they are just as appropriate as, if not more than, threads about famous numismatists, tax law, ebay concerns, secondary hobbies, etc, etc. I don't see near the disdain for those types of threads that any of the 64-D Peace dollar threads catch, and frankly I don't understand it. It's not consistent.

    Like them (those discussions) or not, this place has been more interesting lately (at least until they go "poof").
    2 cents from Stub.
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think that 50 years is a good minimum to wait before listing questionable pieces, such as the 1964-D dollars, lest others be encouraged to make more.

    TD >>



    50 years? Why not 150 years? Then we would be sure that anyone who was alive during the making of a "copy" would be dead. On the other hand, why would time discourage anyone not to make more? Doesn't increasing value encourage "copies"?

    The bottom line is your reasoning is purely arbitrary.

    A much better rationale: Do so when the publication of such coins in the Red Book meets the demands of the public. It could mean 50 years for the Bashlow pieces and next year for the D. Carr 64-D Peace dollars. Or perhaps even never.
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that 50 years is a good minimum to wait before listing questionable pieces, such as the 1964-D dollars, lest others be encouraged to make more.

    TD >>



    50 years? Why not 150 years? Then we would be sure that anyone who was alive during the making of a "copy" would be dead. On the other hand, why would time discourage anyone not to make more? Doesn't increasing value encourage "copies"?

    The bottom line is your reasoning is purely arbitrary.

    A much better rationale: Do so when the publication of such coins in the Red Book meets the demands of the public. It could mean 50 years for the Bashlow pieces and next year for the D. Carr 64-D Peace dollars. Or perhaps even never. >>



    Thank you for sharing.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭
    My pleasure. I enjoy your writings and this topic. If you have any thoughts on my post, I would like to read them.

    Monday night: GO BEARS!
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is why it is REALLY hard to edit the Redbook. For every issue there are interested parties trying to sway the content one way or another.

    I make no comment on the point the OP is trying to make - to me they are neat enough, but the Redbook guys have to decide the rest.
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭
    Every year that goes by, the Red Book will become that much less important.
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Every year that goes by, the Red Book will become that much less important. >>




    Not according to its sales numbers.

  • 66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I do not entirely disagree with your argument, however, there are plenty of threads on this forum that don't deal specifically with a US Coin, but they may deal with some aspect of collecting US coins that many of us find interesting. The threads concerning the background and current status of the production of D.Carr's fantasy pieces are obviously interesting to some, or else they wouldn't keep popping up.
    I believe they are not out of place in a general US coin collecting discussion, especially when comparing them to the finish and details of genuine Peace dollars. In my opinion they are just as appropriate as, if not more than, threads about famous numismatists, tax law, ebay concerns, secondary hobbies, etc, etc. I don't see near the disdain for those types of threads that any of the 64-D Peace dollar threads catch, and frankly I don't understand it. It's not consistent.

    Like them (those discussions) or not, this place has been more interesting lately (at least until they go "poof").
    2 cents from Stub. >>



    I also take that view. The more things go poof the less I hang around. Seems odd that such great facts and info just disappears over a rule so selectively enforced. it just ain't the same place anymoreimage
    Need something designed and 3D printed?
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Every year that goes by, the Red Book will become that much less important. >>



    For whom?
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭


    << <i>For whom? >>



    For those who use the internet. Print is dying all around us.
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    For those who use the internet. Print is dying all around us. >>




    People have been saying "print is dead" ever since the second book rolled off Gutenberg's press.


  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • ecichlidecichlid Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭


    << <i>People have been saying "print is dead" ever since the second book rolled off Gutenberg's press. >>

    You are probably old enough to remember that too! image

    Do you have any idea how many magazine, that have been around for a long time have gone under? Do you know home many newspapers are in trouble?

    A friend of mine owns a small specialty publishing company that sells books and he tells me it's almost dead. PCGS has the right idea pushing Coin Facts online. It remains to be be sen if their pay-to-view model will work, but they have the right idea.

    Because this hobby has an older demographic, it will take longer than other hobbies, but you will see change. A book that comes out once a year with prices that you have to pay for? Try selling that to most YN's!
    There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2016 5:22AM

    @CaptHenway said:
    The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD

    I vote 55 years, since this thread is 5 years old and PCGS now slabs these and has them in the Set Registry!

    Here are some TrueViews from J. Stewart Esterly's the top ranked set:

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again today I have learned more history, thanks all for sharing this info. :+1:

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    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that the Red Book should give these pieces a listing since they are now selling for prices that exceed what I paid for my bronze copy back in the early 1980s ... $6.00, and that was high. They sort of have the status of the Confederate Half Dollar restrikes that Scotts made in the mid 1870s. They are not the real thing, but for the vast majority of the collectors, they as close as most of us will get.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2016 1:26PM

    PCGS does certify the Bashlow Cents;

    photo 1961 1C CSA-Bashlow Restrike Copper RD MS67RD smaller.jpg

    I would not mind acquiring the other metal versions (silver and goldine) to accompany my copper version above.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great thread that has been resurrected!

    I miss @ambro51, his writing style and passion in collecting. Anyone heard from him?

    By the way, besides the three metals in which the cents were widely known to have been stuck (silver, copper, goldine) there were apparently 3 examples struck by Bashlow in GOLD! Never knew this, but an example is selling in the upcoming Heritage Auction. (1 of 2 in private hands.) The other resides in the Smithsonian. Current bid is $12,000.

    So much for no numismatic value!

    A little further research: examples are also known in 6 additional alloys! Tin, aluminum, lead, nickel, zinc, and "red fiber," whatever that is.

    I now have visions of a restruck bran muffin.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2016 11:47AM

    Thanks for mentioning the gold specimen @DCW !

    Here are the HA pages for the 2 gold specimens in private hands:

    Impressive prices for Bashlow restrikes from cancelled dies.

    Of note, Esterly has a lead specimen in his Registry Set but no photos.

    Would be great to have the gold and off metals specimens in PCGS plastic with TrueViews.

    @ambro51 recently posted here.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a lead specimen:

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great topic, Ambro. I picked up my 3-piece set in it's original plastic, I presume, earlier this year, for a song--$200. In the process, I have read up on these fascinating pieces. I agree, they belong in the redbook!

    Tom

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2016 11:53AM

    Does anyone have or know of original paperwork from Bashlow for these?

    Here's my original letter for Bashlow's Continental Dollar restrike which mentions the Confederate Cent restrike.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I picked up several of these about 10 or 15 years ago when they were reasonably priced. I have several of the Bronze, one Goldine, but never did get the silver. I wish I did as it will cost me a lot more now.

    Oh, and for the exorbitant sum of $36 I also won an auction for an off-metal restrike in tin, in the original Capitol Plastics holder.

    I see DCW’s lead example above – how the heck did that thick coin get bent, I wonder?

    Anyway, I often wonder what the off metal examples are worth now…

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BTW - I am sure that the "red fiber" versions are made of the same material as the WWII OPA ration tokens. (Seemingly a very durable fiber-based cardboard type material).

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just to clarify: that lead example is not mine but a part of a group of rare alloy restrikes in the Heritage auction.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just ran across these photos. I'd assume these are the original dies considering the shape of the dies.



  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2017 10:20PM

    Great photos @GoldenEgg ! Where did you find them?

    Anyone know of those are photos of the original dies or the transfer dies Bashlow had made?

    Also, I've often read that Bashlow donated the original dies to the Smithsonian. Does anyone know what happened to the transfer dies?

  • @Zoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD

    I vote 55 years, since this thread is 5 years old and PCGS now slabs these and has them in the Set Registry!

    Here are some TrueViews from J. Stewart Esterly's the top ranked set:

    @Zoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    The Bashlows will be 50 years old next year.

    At what point does the caustic stigma of an illegitimate birth (such as the Mickley restrikes, the New Haven Fugios and the Betts counterfeits) give way to the golden glow of a cherished numismatic eccentricity?

    50 years?
    100 years?
    when everybody guilty of making them is dead?

    I await your opinions.

    TD

    I vote 55 years, since this thread is 5 years old and PCGS now slabs these and has them in the Set Registry!

    Here are some TrueViews from J. Stewart Esterly's the top ranked set:

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