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Old Thread: Numismatic History – John Jay Pittman
MidLifeCrisis
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A lot has been written about John Pittman and his collection. You can easily find information online and in books. My intent with this post is to try to capture some of the little known facts about the man, the experiences that influenced his perspective, and his collecting philosophy.
John Pittman was born in Chase City, Virginia, not far from the North Carolina state line, in February, 1913. He grew up in Rocky Mount, North Carolina, and died in 1996 at his home in New York, one day before his 83rd birthday.
Pittman served with the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, European Theater of Operations, during World War II. This survey was established by the Secretary of War on 3 November 1944, pursuant to a Directive from President Roosevelt, to document an impartial and expert study of the effects of the 1943-1945 Anglo-American bombing of Nazi Germany. The Survey operated from headquarters in London and established forward headquarters and regional headquarters in Germany immediately following the advance of the Allied armies.
A chemical engineer and executive for many years with the Eastman Kodak Company in Rochester, New York, Pittman took an early retirement at age 58 that enabled him to further pursue his ambitions as a leader and representative in local and regional numismatic organizations. He served on the Board of Governors of the ANA from 1959-1963, 1965-1979, 1981-1985, and 1987 to 1989. In 1971 Pittman was elected president of the ANA while at the same time serving as president of the Canadian Numismatic Association and the Mexican Numismatic Association. He was president of the Organization of International Numismatics from 1973 to 1975. He also served as president of the Middle Atlantic Numismatic Association and the Empire State Numismatic Association.
Pittman received the ANA Medal of Merit in 1962 and the Farran Zerbe Award in 1980. He also received the Numismatic News Numismatic Ambassador Award in 1985, and was inducted into the ANA Hall of Fame in 1992. His efforts on behalf of the ANA are probably best demonstrated by his service as Chairman of the Gifts and Bequests Committee from 1985 to 1987. In that capacity he obtained more gifts and bequests than anyone else in the history of the ANA.
Pittman was very guarded about many specific coins he owned and, in interviews, was usually only willing to talk about those he had exhibited at conventions.
I recently posted the following story in another thread:
<< <i>The Statue of Liberty Play
His intense love of coins, which won J.J. Pittman many admirers, proved daunting to at least one fellow collector, Phil Kaufman, the buyer of the boxed 1844 Proof Set, recalled seeing Pittman at several numismatic
gatherings. “I never spoke to him,” Kaufman said. “His knowledge was so superior to mine, I felt intimidated about approaching him.”
Kaufman was not alone. David Akers recalls an auction 41 years ago when one of the legends surrounding Pittman was born. “It was April 27, 1956 in Indianapolis,” he recounts as if it were yesterday, “during Abe Kosoff's
auction of the Thomas G. Melish Collection. John Pittman came there determined to own all five Proof Indian Head gold dollars on sale—at reasonable prices. How he did so is pure Pittman and explains how he was given the
nickname, ‘Statue of Liberty.’
“As Kosoff called Lot 1742, a Proof 1854 Indian Head gold dollar, Pittman stood, walked to the front of the room, turned his back on the auctioneer and faced the crowd. Then he raised his arm and held it aloft through all the
bidding. He glared intently at each bidder as the auction continued. He stared them down and made them blink. He did this for all five coins and won them at reasonable prices.” >>
However, according to Q. David Bowers, “…somehow, it has crept into print that John bid in a “Statue of Liberty pose,” resolutely standing with his hand fixed in the air, as to frighten all competition, in practice this may have been the case once or twice, but was not his normal method. Instead, John liked to lay red herrings across the trail. If he desired Coin A, any presale discussions were bound to center around Coin B or Coin C. If Coin A were brought up to John, he would brush it off, indicating it seemingly was of no interest. Of course, this was simply a clever way to protect his own strategy. As a longtime auctioneer I saw him do this many times, and also engage in other activities so as not to attract attention—such as giving secret signals to the auctioneer or placing the bids with someone else. If anything, John was smart, smart.”
In 1954, Pittman and his wife, Gehring, mortgaged their home to finance a trip to Egypt to participate in the King Farouk Palace Collection auction. The following is extracted from an interview of Pittman conducted by Mark Van Winkle (editor of Legacy magazine at the time) concerning the Farouk Sale:
<< <i>LEGACY: You went to the Farouk sale in 1954?
PITTMAN: Oh, yes. My wife and I went. I got a group of collectors together to go so we could bid against the dealers to be sure we got something.
LEGACY: How were the prices?
PITTMAN: Well, the prices were not cheap. I would say there were a lot of sour grapes about that sale. Dealers who didn't go said the catalog wasn't done well, but that's probably just because they weren't there. You had to
know the lots, because everything was in large lots. Nevertheless, if you figured out what the per- unit cost was you made out very well.
LEGACY: Did you just buy U S. out of there?
PITTMAN: Oh, no. I went there to buy rare foreign, because they had lots of rare foreign. A lot of the foreign material you see in my display here in Cincinnati came from the Farouk Sale. We also had a 1933 $20 gold piece
removed from the auction. I did that.
LEGACY: You had it removed?
PITTMAN: Oh, yes, because they are illegal and it was to be turned over to the US.
LEGACY: But it wasn't illegal in Egypt.
PITTMAN: No. But we have reciprocity agreements with most governments, and it was illegally removed from the Mint. It never was officially issued. The $10.00 gold piece was.
LEGACY: I understand that a lot of US dealers at the time wanted to go to the Farouk Sale but did not attend because they were fearful for their lives because of a possible overthrow of the government.
PITTMAN: I think that Is true.
LEGACY: Did you think you were personally endangered by going there?
PITTMAN: I thought I might be, so I took out a lot of insurance. Nevertheless, I was willing to take the chance, because having known about the overthrow of the French monarchy under Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette and the
sale in London later on of their material I knew this sort of sale doesn't happen but once every hundred or 200 years. You have to take a chance, because if you don't take a chance, you don't benefit. And by getting enough
collectors together who had deep pockets, we were able to persuade the dealers that we better get some of it. All of us were customers of those dealers. We told them it's a two-way street and to remember that this sale is
only once but we're going to be a customer, hopefully, of those dealers over a long period of time. The prime dealers there from the U.S. were Kosoff, Kaplan and Hans Schulman. There were some minor dealers there also.
Since I was a long time customer of Kosoff, and to a lesser extent Kaplan and Schulman, and we were good friends as well, we were able to come up with a solution to many problems. We made sure they got some of the
things they were looking for, and they made sure I got some of the things I was looking for. To me, that's the best way to operate.
LEGACY: How did you pay for the auction lots? Did you pay in Egyptian pounds?
PITTMAN: We paid for everything with international traveler's checks or with a letter of credit, which was transferred officially at the same rate as the British pound, which was $4.03 at that time. We had to pay every day,
including the government tax, we couldn't run a tab at all.
LEGACY: I have heard two different stories about the cleaning of Farouk's coins. The first story is that he had a cleaning room, and he cleaned all of them himself. The second is that he did not clean them but the Egyptian
government and the people who handled the coins for the Egyptian government cleaned all the coins.
PITTMAN: Neither of them are true. He had a conservator, a museum curator, who used what they called plate powder, British plate powder. He cleaned some coins, especially some of the copper and some of the patterns.
But very little, if any, of the silver or gold was ever cleaned. So that's not true, and Farouk had nothing to do with the cleaning. Also a number of the coins had nitrocellulose lacquer on them. It comes off very easily with a little
acetone but not everyone knew that and many who saw an otherwise beautiful coin like the 1827 quarter thought it was all bad. I knew what it was, so after I bought it I just took a little acetone and took the nitrocellulose
lacquer right off it. By the way, a lot of the modern-day proofs being made in England are lacquered right at the mint when they are made.
LEGACY: Farouk was still alive at the time of the sale, wasn't he?
PITTMAN: Oh, yes. He lived for many years after it. He abdicated about a year before the sale and went to Italy, allegedly with a number of paramours. Allegedly the British started feeding him wine, women and song when he
was a young cadet in England. He actually bought the 1839 English proof set that was in the sale from Spink himself while he was in school in England. He really was a collector and he had a number of good friends in the coin
business. Hans Schulman was one. Hans was one guy who would let Farouk run a tab, so Hans sometimes didn't get paid for a long time. When the sale came, Hans had about a hundred thousand outstanding. But after the
first day, the government made an agreement that they would pay him and honor their obligation. >>
Between 1997 and 1999, the Pittman Collection was sold at a series of three public auctions for prices totaling more than $30 million – making it one of the most valuable coin collections ever sold at auction. Pittman’s initial outlay probably came to just a few hundred thousand dollars. Interestingly, Pittman never owned an 1804 silver dollar or a 1913 Liberty Head nickel. Those great rarities were far less costly 60 years ago than they are today – but nonetheless their prices were high in relation to other rare coins, so Pittman chose to spend his limited resources on coins that, in his opinion, were still “sleepers.”
1740 Mo MF Mexico Pillar Dollar, Ex-David Aker's August, 1999 sale of the John Pittman collection, lot #2903.
Sources:
1. American Numismatic Biographies, by Pete Smith, 2010 (http://www.coinbooks.org/resources/anb_2010.pdf)
2. “An Interview with John J. Pittman”, by Mark Van Winkle
3. Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Bombing_Survey_(Europe) )
4. United States Strategic Bombing Survey: Summary Report, (European War)
(http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm)
5. “Remembering John Pittman”, by Q. David Bowers
6. http://www.learcapital.com/rarecoins/1066/detail.html
7. “Great Coins, Great Collectors”, Universal Coin and Bullion’s Investor Profit Advisory
(http://www.universalcoin.com/articles/great-coins-great-collectors.html)
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Comments
MidLifeCrisis, You most likely don't hear this at home a lot, so I just wanted to say...
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
my only ex-Pittman (which i unfortunately no longer own)
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>You won't find any info online or in books about some of the aspects of JJP's true character. That can't be shared openly here. >>
Amen, brother, amen!
<< <i>Umm...thanks Broadstruck. I think. >>
MidLifeCrisis, You know that was posted with
Honestly one of the first threads I may actually go non green by killing a partial tree and printing!
<< <i>
<< <i>Umm...thanks Broadstruck. I think. >>
MidLifeCrisis, You know that was posted with
Honestly one of the first threads I may actually go non green by killing a partial tree and printing!
Ha! Thanks.
1773 8 Reales They don't come much better than this (1st year of Portrait).
Gary
Everything I've read about him implies that he was purely a collector.
<< <i>Also from the John Jay Pittman Collection (Heritage called it AU/UNC). It is fully UNC in my opinion (with some weakness of strike on the obverse).
1773 8 Reales They don't come much better than this (1st year of Portrait). >>
Nice!
<< <i>
<< <i>You won't find any info online or in books about some of the aspects of JJP's true character. That can't be shared openly here. >>
Amen, brother, amen! >>
People usually have many sides.
<< <i>John Jay Pittman was a collector's collector. Pittman was a humble man who earned between $10,000 and $15,000 per year working for Kodak as a chemical engineer. He had a love for coins and invested half his salary into scarce to rare gold and silver coins. He purchased the most historically significant coins his budget allowed. Mr. Pittman invested about $100,000.00 during his life on coins. The first section of his holdings were recently sold at auction for $11,822,283.00. The second portion of his coins will soon be sold, and conservative estimates are that these coins will bring about $18 million. That will bring the value of his collection to $30 million.The growth rate of 30,000% is astounding. >>
Source: Experts123
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
<< Pittman learned early on the value of money. At the age of 7 he worked all day in a cotton field with bloodied hands for 10 cents. He didn't have his first pair of new shoes until he was 10. >>
<< Pittman realized early in life that it wasn't what one had that was important, material possessions were scarce. Family was what counted, and knowledge was the key to the future. >>
Some of his buys:
<<
* 1833 $5 Gold Piece Bought for $605 Auction Price - $467,500
* 1849- D Gold Dollar Bought in 1948 for $13.50 Auction Price - $6,600
* 1854- P Gold Dollar Bought in 1945 for $7.00 Auction Price - $55,000
* 1838- D $5 Gold Piece Bought in 1954 for $483 Auction Price - $12,100
* 1859 Complete Proof Set assembled for $1803 Auction Price - $387,500
>>
He is an interesting collector because he was a person of modest means who devoted his time and money to his passion. He was definitely extremely astute regarding coins.
I seem to have the same problem.
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
Pittman also had the luxury of being able to acquire many of these coins long before the US dollar got into trouble. It was specifically because of dollar devaluation for the 35 yrs before his collection was sold that allowed such a nice rate of return. It was a combination of being in the market at the right time, and having the knowledge to know what to buy. I wonder if he had just put away BU rolls of Barber dimes, dated Merc and Lincoln rolls, and other such things if he would have done just as well, if not better.
roadrunner
<< <i>I wonder if he had just put away BU rolls of Barber dimes, dated Merc and Lincoln rolls, and other such things if he would have done just as well, if not better. >>
Should be doable with some easy calculations. Go for it
I had never read the exerpts from the interview on the Faroak sale ...
I've always been somewhat intrigued by Mr. Pittman, because he was a collector of relatively modest means ... yet through knowledge and patience and prudent (and tactful) purchases, he created a world-class cabinet. As RR said, much of the gains were due in part to dollar devaluation, however, just the same ... he did it on more of an everyman's budget. Had he been well-heeled, I wonder how much his collection's auction value would have balloned too. Mind-boogling to think of ...
I hope that as a collector of modest means I can also build a worthwhile cabinet ... certainly probably not in the same league ... but hopefully worthy of a footnote just the same.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I do not feel that a 100k in coins today will do the same 3o years from now. >>
If you look at world megatrends, I think you might be able to accomplish something similar over a several decade time horizon if you started a few years ago and focused on Chinese coins. It may be possible to start now as well. If the Chinese economy continues its growth rate and technology keeps getting transferred to China, there will be more wealthy Chinese coin collectors to drive up the prices of premium pieces. The Chinese government is also keeping the exchange rate low which may impact the ability of Chinese collectors to purchase coins today.
It's probably reasonable to consider the US market fairly mature now.
As usual, an outstanding post. Thank you for taking the time to research, write, and post this most interesting article.
Ron
Tom
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if he had just put away BU rolls of Barber dimes, dated Merc and Lincoln rolls, and other such things if he would have done just as well, if not better. >>
Should be doable with some easy calculations. Go for it
The conundrum is that if large quantities of BU coins exist, the price isn't high. So if a major hoard were put away, the prices would tend to be much lower than they are today. In any case, dimes are an unlikely candidate, because the collector base is relatively small. Keep in mind, that many of the best Pittman coins came from the Farouk sale, a once in the lifetime kind of event. Opportunities like that are rare, especially with the threat of violence in the country keeping many major bidders and dealers away.
Thanks for the Pittman info. I did wonder about the "Statue of Liberty" stories. It appears that a few isolated incidents became legend, and that Pittman did lead many competitors down a false trail. I think it is likely that if a person of modest means did the paddle pose today, and did it consistently, a cartel of dealers/collectors or even a single person might run him into the ground by running him up on a few coins, and perhaps even splitting the profits from their deeds. It sounds like that back in the day, Pittman had smart allies, and they would have informed him of such nefarious plans. He might be able to pull a double cross on such a plan, and have his cake and eat it too.
<< <i>
Thanks for the bump! For the record, here's my Pittman piece. The photograph is courtesy of BluCC Photos.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Does anyone recall a story (in coin world I believe) in the 80's about Pittman
Obtaining a Panama 1918 5 centavo (8 known) from someone where the deal fell through and he did not want to return the coin to the owner. I stand corrected if I am off on the story , but that is what I remember. I think he eventually returned the coin, but there was a lot of commotion made of it by the owner. It was a big story at the time. Maybe Julian remembers?
Krueger
1951 Canada Dime
He who knows he has enough is rich.
An important fact not mentioned was that JJP was a proof specialist. he had just about every US proof coin minted. He did not need PCGS to tell him which coins were proof and which coins were not proof. 99% of the coins were collected before third party grading.
The other great fact about the auction of his coins was that they were all auctioned RAW.
Stewart
Since the ghost of Pitman was referenced in this thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1028372/baker-collection-sale#latest
by @DCW , I thought resurrecting this thread would be educational for those board members who may not know the “statue of liberty” bidding approach.
Thanks for the resurrection. Before reading this, I thought the "Statue of Liberty" ploy was attributed to Eliasberg.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Malwarebytes says, "Website blocked due to trojan"
What link are you referencing?
He was widely loathed by the ANA Headquarters staff while I was there.
Not sure why the ANA had issue with him??
I remember spending time with him at the 1991 Chicago ANA. He had a wonderful display that year and he told me the story of every coin he had on display. Later, when his coins were auctioned by David Akers, I had the pleasure of buying many coins from his collection, including the highest grossing lot in the sale (the 1845 Proof Set including gold for $750,000). I split the entire sale with another dealer (Jason Carter), and we bought this set on "spec". His wife, and his daughter, Polly,
were instrumental working with Akers. Pittman's legacy was very important to his his family, and the Catalogues reflected this.
Not the ANA, the ANA Headquarters staff. When I started working there I was warned to not trust him. It was sound advice.
You, on the other hand, were an ANA member and a potential vote in a future election. John was always milk and honey to people who might help him. He loved power.