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German silver bars on ebay

LoosechangeLoosechange Posts: 5
in Precious Metals
newby here, longtime reader, 1st time poster. Hi gang! Been checking out silver bars on ebay and noticed a lot of german silver bars. My understanding is that there is NO silver in german silver, but many ebay sellers just list them as 1 troy oz. silver in the bullion category. Lots of buyers for them. I thought german silver was used mostly for gunsmithing but I could be wrong. Seems they are selling for the same price as real silver bars. image Anybody want to set me straight? Thanks.

Loosechange

Lone Watie: I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas.

Comments

  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭
    Hi and welcome to the forum!

    Please post a link to what you're referring to. There are lots of German silver bars out there (Degussa), if that's what you're talking about.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • LoosechangeLoosechange Posts: 5
    Thanks! not sure how to do a linky yet but here's one auction # 270636404809. I've seen quite a few like these, thats why I ask. I'm not buying, just looking.image Silver is a personal weakness. image

    I'll work on the linky thing.

    Loosechange
    Lone Watie: I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas.
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    From Wikipedia:

    Nickel silver, also known as German silver, paktong, new silver or alpacca (or alpaca), is a copper alloy with nickel and often zinc. The usual formulation is 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc.[1] In fact, all modern, commercially important nickel silvers (such as those standardized under ASTM B122) contain significant amounts of zinc, and are sometimes considered a subset of brass.[2]

    Nickel silver is named for its silvery appearance, but contains no elemental silver unless plated.
  • pmcollectourpmcollectour Posts: 1,211 ✭
    LINK
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a scam to dupe folks that don't know what german silver is.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Surprise, surprise. It's the horizontal "buffalo" style bar.

    At least these charlatans are making their own brand of dreck instead of forging legit brands.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And he has 82 more of them listed! Doesn't seller have an obligation to disclose that bars contain no silver? Might be worth reporting to ebay.

    To newbie Loosechange, Welcome and great catch.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • sumrtymsumrtym Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    CMC makes these, big surprise. image

    Sells 10 for $49.95.
  • LoosechangeLoosechange Posts: 5
    Reported. Also found this web site...........one buyer noted it in his feedback. Seems this guy has been selling a lot f them for months.

    http://www.cmcmint.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5_14

    Hope the link works. Seems like the ONLY reason to buy these is to deceive people.

    Lone Watie: I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I reported one of the future sales. Gave them true composition of German Silver. Doubt it will help.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I reported one of the future sales. Gave them true composition of German Silver. Doubt it will help.
    TD >>



    Same here. When reporting a lot of listings, always report the one that ends at the furtherest date. Takes a while for ebay to get around to investigating and a lot of times the item has already ended.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a blatant rip off.

    Many people will simply assume that "Germany" is the origin of the silver for
    the bar. The $17 opening bid implies that it's actually German silver rather
    than "german silver".

    It's surprising eBay tolerates this sort of thing.
    Tempus fugit.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Scummy, but this isn't the seller's problem.

    With all due respect to our dealers who see the grandmothers who spend their life savings on crap...it's crap.

    The bars say "German Silver" on them. If you don't know what "German Silver" is, don't buy it.

    If you don't know what a "Mil" is, or suspect what a "Mil" is, by any definition, don't buy it.

    Gold Filled doesn't mean it's filled with gold. Silver Plate doesn't refer to the charger itself.

    Wishing the "HGE" that comes immediately after the "18K" wasn't there won't make the ring solid 18k.

    If the bars said simply ".999 Pure Silver" and they are offered to you at $5 or even $18 each, you should be suspicious and bear a very heavy burden of responsibility for your actions. If you didn't know silver was $20 an ounce you wouldn't be considering them in the first place. You can't claim ignorance. That's the definition of greed in my book.

    But if the bars clearly say "German Silver" and you buy them, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,122 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>But if the bars clearly say "German Silver" and you buy them, you have nobody to blame but yourself. >>



    German Silver = silver from Germany
    german silver = metal alloy that contains NO silver

    I think it's obvious that this eBay seller is trying to trick the naive into thinking it's a real silver bar.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should the maker of these bars, who make copper bars, tin bars, aluminum bars, niobium bars, columbian bars, titanium bars, etc, not be allowed to make german silver bars?

    At what point does the buyer need to own up to their own greed?
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,647 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Should the maker of these bars, who make copper bars, tin bars, aluminum bars, niobium bars, columbian bars, titanium bars, etc, not be allowed to make german silver bars?

    At what point does the buyer need to own up to their own greed? >>



    The starting bid is $17. The real value includes about a fifteen cents worth of metal.

    The auction should clearly state these aren't silver just as an auction for gold painted
    one ouince bars should disclose it's just paint and they aren't real "gold bars" or "gol-
    den bars".

    This is intentionally deceptive.

    Of course now days the thieves are allowed to advertise on TV and can be found in any
    bank. The state gets their cut at the casinos. This is the age of preying on the weak.
    Tempus fugit.
  • LoosechangeLoosechange Posts: 5
    Good news, it appears ebay did do something. Seller had over 80 of these for sale and now he has none. Maybe Ebay is getting better at moving on complaints. Too bad he sold several hundred of them before he was caught.

    Loosechange
    Lone Watie: I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>But if the bars clearly say "German Silver" and you buy them, you have nobody to blame but yourself >>



    So if my name my brass bar company "24K Gold" and stamp all my brass bars with "24k Gold" it is the buyers fault when they receive brass instead of gold?

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • LoosechangeLoosechange Posts: 5
    Not to mention they were listed under "coins & paper money" as "bullion".

    Uh oh, seller has moved his crappy bars to another name............Pangapoola. Guess he has to move a lot of these he has left over.

    Thanks for the help.

    Loosechange
    Lone Watie: I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    His new listing under another ebay user name. Reported, guy needs to be banned from ebay.

    More German Silver Bars, this time German Silver Art Bars

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    All his past auctions are private so I cannot contact the duped buyers like I usually do.image
    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reported, but the listing is less deceptive than before. May not get punted.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Reported, but the listing is less deceptive than before. May not get punted. >>



    Agree ... no mention of any silver in his bars ... However, if we report it as follows, it might do some good.......
    "Outright attempts of fraud on "German Silver", in weights of one troy ounce, that are auctioned without explanation that there is no elemental silver present."

    to many characters had to shorten it to: "Outright attempts of fraud on "German Silver",without mentioning no silver present in the bar."

    Reported it under fraud.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All his past auctions are private so I cannot contact the duped buyers like I usually do.image >>


    sure you can. buyers are listed by name in his feedback history. You just can't see what they bought from him. just tell the buyer if he bought one of the seller's german silver bars that he didn't get any silver. I myself refrain from contacting another seller's buyers.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    I have done it in the past, usually on large dollar amounts.
    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
  • IHC08IHC08 Posts: 100
    His use of "troy ounces" is, IMO, the main deceptive point since that measure is pretty much used exclusively with precious metals.

    Maybe reporting w/ a reference to the Wikipedia page saying "outright attempts at nickel silver fraud include the production of replica bullion bars marked "Nickel Silver" or "German Silver", in weights of one troy ounce, that are sold without explanation that there is no elemental silver present." will help to get the new auctions pulled?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_silver#Fraudulent_Uses
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they pulled the one i reported but did nothing about the others even after i mentioned he had a bunch. Guess you gotta report each one. Here's the rest of them he still has listed. Have at it. He tries to beat the pulling of the listings by listing for only 24 hrs. Ebay was real quick to pull the one i reported.

    His remaining German silver listings

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

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