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Aint if funny how dealers just love to
piecesofme
Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
manipulate the .999 market?
Just a mere 2 weeks ago, when spot silver was in the high $17's, local dealers were paying me $200-210 for 10 oz bars. Now that spot is approaching $20, they only want to pay me spot ($195)...LOWER than what they were paying when spot was almost $2 (10%) LESS.
So I say to them, with that reasoning I should be able to buy back the bars I sold them just 1.5-2 weeks ago for $195 since that's where spot is at. They all say oh no, we need $210-215.
Bunch of greedy B(you know what) just manipulating the hell out of every dime they can get. Worse than when gas stations were jacking up the price of gasoline during 9-11. Yeah I said it, thats what Im comparing them to. Pure greed.
I understand that availability, inventory & demand all play into it, but it's just pure greed motivating them. And theyre trying to run this scam on a guy who knows the game. Imagine what theyre doing to people who dont know what they have? Case in point, one dealer bragged to me that he was able to buy 30 10 oz.'ers $3900. That just sickens me how some dealers take advantage of some folks.
Just a mere 2 weeks ago, when spot silver was in the high $17's, local dealers were paying me $200-210 for 10 oz bars. Now that spot is approaching $20, they only want to pay me spot ($195)...LOWER than what they were paying when spot was almost $2 (10%) LESS.
So I say to them, with that reasoning I should be able to buy back the bars I sold them just 1.5-2 weeks ago for $195 since that's where spot is at. They all say oh no, we need $210-215.
Bunch of greedy B(you know what) just manipulating the hell out of every dime they can get. Worse than when gas stations were jacking up the price of gasoline during 9-11. Yeah I said it, thats what Im comparing them to. Pure greed.
I understand that availability, inventory & demand all play into it, but it's just pure greed motivating them. And theyre trying to run this scam on a guy who knows the game. Imagine what theyre doing to people who dont know what they have? Case in point, one dealer bragged to me that he was able to buy 30 10 oz.'ers $3900. That just sickens me how some dealers take advantage of some folks.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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...OUCH!
I'd love to hear from a dealer to explain the decrease in bid (besides "that's the market")
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
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I heard a chinese man once say, "as spot goes up, premium goes down, and vice versa."
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
If you don't like the buy price, don't sell.
If you don't like the sell price, don't buy.
TRUTH
On the selling flipside, if folks cant realize value when it's offered I have no problem just keeping it in the pile and advise/remind them that the price wont be the same 10% higher from now.
It try to buy on dips too, just like everyone else, but when something is undervalued and im getting it at a fair price given whatever the current levels are, I keep adding. But when pure greed is the driver of the seller, he can keep his too.
<< <i>I hear ya truthteller. When I can find fair, unmanipulated prices from dealers that dont want to bend you over and aren't driven by greed because an "opportunity" is presenting itself, I buy all I can.
On the selling flipside, if folks cant realize value when it's offered I have no problem just keeping it in the pile and advise/remind them that the price wont be the same 10% higher from now.
It try to buy on dips too, just like everyone else, but when something is undervalued and im getting it at a fair price given whatever the current levels are, I keep adding. But when pure greed is the driver of the seller, he can keep his too. >>
You still haven't indicated what the dealer's buy-sell spread was at the time he was buying for $200-$210, as opposed to now, when it's $195 buy and $210-$215 sell.
We don't have any information showing that the spread is larger now than it was when you weren't accusing them of being "Bunch of greedy B(you know what) just manipulating the hell out of every dime they can get". And even now, the spread is approximately 7% to 10%, which doesn't sound piggish to me.
You are a man of great patience and restraint. --Jerry
<< <i>LOL...I knew this would turn into a pile-on. Chat boards are so predictable. Good day. >>
On the contrary, it appears that you were hoping for a pile on, atop the bullion dealers, but it didn't materialize.
And even after being asked (and then having it pointed out to you that you hadn't responded), you failed to provide any facts/information with which to back up your nasty accusations. So now, because others disagree with you and/or called you on it, you want to take your ball and go home.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Aint if funny how dealers just love to... manipulate the .999 market?
Just a mere 2 weeks ago, when spot silver was in the high $17's, local dealers were paying me $200-210 for 10 oz bars. Now that spot is approaching $20, they only want to pay me spot ($195)...LOWER than what they were paying when spot was almost $2 (10%) LESS. >>
So your complaint is that dealers have manipulated the silver market to increase spot from $17 to $20, in order that they might pay less for silver?
<< <i>This thread belongs in the precious metals forum. >>
Why? The PM forum has been taken over by threads about the housing market and politics. Not as much about PMs as it used to be there.
Now, for this thread, I am just waiting for 2 dealers in particular to chime in like they always do whenever they think someone has said something not nice about a dealer or how they work.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
I don't see what you're whining about. If anything, you should be happy they were paying you well over spot for a period of time.
And of course some gas stations rose the price of gas after 9/11... when the main source of American oil is the middle east, and then people from the middle east bomb us, it will decrease confidence in the American oil supply, and thus increase American prices.
And of course a business is going to try to get every dime they can---especially when working on a bullion dealer's margin. You sound like just another person who likes to bash dealers for the sake of it.
<< <i>IMHO, this is strictly a Supply and Demand issue. The premium has evaporated somewhat on the bars. In fact, I noticed it on silver bags, as well. The price hasn't gone hand in hand with the silver price. I don't believe that there is any special greed in place. >>
Silver has been in the $19+ area a few times since the 2008 commodity spike and bust...
each time it has retreated to the 17 or 16 area.
nerves?
(It would be great for silver to push past and firmly close above $21... but hope is for fools in this biz)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Like any business there needs to be a margin of profit. Those margins are typically controlled through the normal competition between businesses competing for your business. If you don't like what goes on at one place go to another.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<<I understand that availability, inventory & demand all play into it, but it's just pure greed motivating them. And theyre trying to run this scam on a guy who knows the game. Imagine what theyre doing to people who dont know what they have? Case in point, one dealer bragged to me that he was able to buy 30 10 oz.'ers $3900. That just sickens me how some dealers take advantage of some folks.>>
Did you deal face to face with these local B&M dealers, or did I?
The old "have to pay the electric bill" is one of just many tired lines dealers use. What a joke.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>LOL...I knew this would turn into a pile-on. Chat boards are so predictable. Good day. >>
Nobody is forcing your presence on this forum. If you don't like this message board then leave because you are under no obligation to stay.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Bunch of greedy B(you know what) just manipulating the hell out of every dime they can get. Worse than when gas stations were jacking up the price of gasoline during 9-11. Yeah I said it, thats what Im comparing them to. Pure greed. >>
Unless the dealer you go to has a sign that says United Way on there front door then they are entitled to make a profit. Furthermore, you found a dealer that is paying above spot for 10 oz bars based on your initial posting. Boy they sure sound greedy to me. They are no more greedy than you are going to work and then expecting to get paid every two weeks.
<< <i>The old "have to pay the electric bill" is one of just many tired lines dealers use. What a joke. >>
You mean like the old "but you offered more last week" line that sellers use? Something like that?
<< <i>
<< <i>The old "have to pay the electric bill" is one of just many tired lines dealers use. What a joke. >>
You mean like the old "but you offered more last week" line that sellers use? Something like that?
I'm not a dealer, just a poor schmuck pointing the lofty 5% rip off. I was in business for myself for 7 years so I know what it takes to pay the bills and 5% doesn't cut it. If you started and ended this thread complaining about the 13 per ounce rip off you mentioned then I would have been on your side but when it seems most of your gripe is over 5% it kinda makes me go
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Perhaps you should become a dealer and handle it the way you'd like to see. Set the example for others.... >>
<< <i>If you started and ended this thread complaining about the 13 per ounce rip off you mentioned then I would have been on your side but when it seems most of your gripe is over 5% it kinda makes me go
Just to be clear here, you quoted me, but I didn't complain about anything (at least, not in this thread).
Didn't Adam Smith cover this in another thread about 234 years ago?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>You can just find another buyer that is looking to make slightly less of a razor thin margin than the original dealer is making, and sell to him. You don't have to sell to the dealer you normally sell to. >>
Exactly! But you will drive all around town or ship it to find the extra 2%. Or maybe, just maybe, you let the guy make a few bucks and he thinks of you the next time something comes through his door that you collect.
That is the dealers offer. You do not have to take, but it does not sound unreasonable at all. Speaking of which, well, I will just leave it alone. It may be fodder for the next "why dealers drink" thread.
<< <i>I understand that availability, inventory & demand all play into it, but it's just pure greed motivating them.
Didn't Adam Smith cover this in another thread about 234 years ago? >>
rofl. IIRC: John Nash had a counterpoint ~50 years ago.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
TD
Do I understand this right?? The poster is unhappy that a dealer is selling merchandise for 210.00 or 215.00 that he paid 195.00 for??I think thats not too much to ask...but what do I know?
No, I really believe they need to pay the electric bill. Otherwise, it's bring your own flashlight and things tend to get messy. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i><The old "have to pay the electric bill" is one of just many tired lines dealers use. What a joke>
No, I really believe they need to pay the electric bill. Otherwise, it's bring your own flashlight and things tend to get messy. MJ >>
We also try to keep the flush toilets working.........
At $15-$17 per ounce, there were a lot of retail buyers for physical metal willing to pay a premium to spot. Sometimes that is all that is required to bring in enough material - a higher buy premium. At $19, not as many retail buyers. Seems straightforward on the buy price.
Sorry that you didn't get your desired result, whatever that was.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
It's clear where all you dealers motives are and that you gotta get each others back to keep the deceit going on the general public. I love it when someone speaks truth & relaity on message boards, and others who have nothing better to do feel like they have to play devils advocate just for the sake of arguing. Have fun talking to yourselves and keeping my thread at the top when you dont agree with me. Now thats irony! Hey, have your opinions. I lived mine regarding this. So you all are saying it's ok for a dealer to rape someone just because that person didnt know what they had? Because thats what youre saying. Charge what the hell ever you guys want. Thats not where my argument is. My argument is dealers taking advantage of innocent people and why i reposted the MAIN part and point of my initial thread at 5:23 PM. But I guess you all only want to see & read what you want to. Thats fine. You have to live with yourselves, I dont.
Now pick all this apart since it's obvious you have the time to. Funny how so much caring is being put on what a nobody like me has to say. Thats saying something in & of itself, now isnt it?
Keep it at the top for days picking apart what is NOT the root of what I initially wrote. rotflmao at you people!!!
<< <i>Everyones got me figured out. My motive, my resentment. You all just have me pegged. Yet not one person here has ever met me or knows anything about me, and I was the one walking in the stores hearing dealers bragging about how they just bent someone over for $2000 and then wanted to sell to me (a regular customer) for top Dollar because an opportunity has presented itself.
It's clear where all you dealers motives are and that you gotta get each others back to keep the deceit going on the general public. I love it when someone speaks truth & relaity on message boards, and others who have nothing better to do feel like they have to play devils advocate just for the sake of arguing. Have fun talking to yourselves and keeping my thread at the top when you dont agree with me. Now thats irony! Hey, have your opinions. I lived mine regarding this. So you all are saying it's ok for a dealer to rape someone just because that person didnt know what they had? Because thats what youre saying. Charge what the hell ever you guys want. Thats not where my argument is. My argument is dealers taking advantage of innocent people and why i reposted the MAIN part and point of my initial thread at 5:23 PM. But I guess you all only want to see & read what you want to. Thats fine. You have to live with yourselves, I dont.
Now pick all this apart since it's obvious you have the time to. Funny how so much caring is being put on what a nobody like me has to say. Thats saying something in & of itself, now isnt it?
Keep it at the top for days picking apart what is NOT the root of what I initially wrote. rotflmao at you people!!! >>
Definition: Hobby - An activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, typically done during one's leisure time.
Maybe you should find a new one.
Doesn't sound like you're having too much fun.
The other examples you cited we hear all the time and those dealers should be avoided like plauge. We all know that. We also know that we have choices on who to do business with.
FYI it looks like you know what you are doing as I see you have silver bars up for sale I think since Aug 29 on the BST. No asking price. Curious, what do you consider a fair offer?
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=786451
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......