Ron Paul questions whether there's gold at Fort Knox, NY Fed
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Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said he plans to introduce legislation next year to force an audit of U.S. holdings of gold.
Paul, a longtime critic of the Federal Reserve and U.S. monetary policy, said he believes it's "a possibility" that there might not actually be any gold in the vaults of Fort Knox or the New York Federal Reserve bank.
The libertarian lawmaker told Kitco News, a website tracking news about precious metals, that an audit was necessary to determine how much the U.S. maintains in gold reserves in case the government were to use gold to back the dollar.
“If there was no question about the gold being there, you think they would be anxious to prove gold is there,” he said.
“Our Federal Reserve admits to nothing, and they should prove all the gold is there. There is a reason to be suspicious and even if you are not suspicious why wouldn’t you have an audit?
“I think it is a possibility," Paul said when asked if there was truth to rumors that there was actually no gold at Ft. Knox or the New York Fed.
Paul had been one of the Republicans to spearhead a broader audit of the Fed as part of the Wall Street reform bill passed through Congress this year. The provision, which was weakened somewhat in the final version, found Paul joining with a number of Democrats to require the Fed to open its books and outline its assets and liabilities.
The gold reserves, which Paul's new bill would audit, are generally seen as a guarantee on a nation's currency, but the U.S. moved the dollar away from being tied to the price of gold in 1972.
Paul stopped short of calling for the reinstitution of the gold standard and instead called for the government to allow the use of hard currency — gold and silver tender — alongside the use of the dollar.
"If people get tired of using the paper standard they can deal in gold or silver,” he said.
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said he plans to introduce legislation next year to force an audit of U.S. holdings of gold.
Paul, a longtime critic of the Federal Reserve and U.S. monetary policy, said he believes it's "a possibility" that there might not actually be any gold in the vaults of Fort Knox or the New York Federal Reserve bank.
The libertarian lawmaker told Kitco News, a website tracking news about precious metals, that an audit was necessary to determine how much the U.S. maintains in gold reserves in case the government were to use gold to back the dollar.
“If there was no question about the gold being there, you think they would be anxious to prove gold is there,” he said.
“Our Federal Reserve admits to nothing, and they should prove all the gold is there. There is a reason to be suspicious and even if you are not suspicious why wouldn’t you have an audit?
“I think it is a possibility," Paul said when asked if there was truth to rumors that there was actually no gold at Ft. Knox or the New York Fed.
Paul had been one of the Republicans to spearhead a broader audit of the Fed as part of the Wall Street reform bill passed through Congress this year. The provision, which was weakened somewhat in the final version, found Paul joining with a number of Democrats to require the Fed to open its books and outline its assets and liabilities.
The gold reserves, which Paul's new bill would audit, are generally seen as a guarantee on a nation's currency, but the U.S. moved the dollar away from being tied to the price of gold in 1972.
Paul stopped short of calling for the reinstitution of the gold standard and instead called for the government to allow the use of hard currency — gold and silver tender — alongside the use of the dollar.
"If people get tired of using the paper standard they can deal in gold or silver,” he said.
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Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>He probably thinks Elvis is still alive. >>
Thinks? OR knows?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>He probably thinks Elvis is still alive. >>
Elvis died? Oh noooooooooooooooooooooo..........
This stuff happened in the early 1970's. To dispell the rumors of no gold at Fort Knox, for the first and thus far only time, Fort Knox was opened to journalists. They took a tour with a high ranking official [the then Treasury Secretary?]. A vault was opened up and inspected. Gold bars everywhere.
The History Channel has run a story on the history of Fort Knox and part of the show includes video of the 1974 vault opening and inspection. It has been on HC multiple times.
Of course, if the government opened up Fort Knox, allowed journalists of today to tour the facility and had one of the vaults opened, only to see that it was empty, the uproar would be defeaning. Within seconds talking heads on cable TV news and the alphabet network news, on blogs and on talk radio would be screaming that it is either
1. Bush's fault;
2. Obama's fault; or
3. Clinton's fault
depending on which show/blog/channel you are tuned in to:D
Our own PM forum and US Coin Forum would erupt like never before.
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A few hundred billion in gold when we owe 13+ trillion, doesn't make much of a dent does it?
<< <i>DejaVu.
Of course, if the government opened up Fort Knox, allowed journalists of today to tour the facility and had one of the vaults opened, only to see that it was empty, the uproar would be defeaning. Within seconds talking heads on cable TV news and the alphabet network news, on blogs and on talk radio would be screaming that it is either
1. Bush's fault;
2. Obama's fault; or
3. Clinton's fault
depending on which show/blog/channel you are tuned in to:D
Our own PM forum and US Coin Forum would erupt like never before. >>
There is another more sinister option that you have failed to mention.....RYK!!!!! we all know he likes his gold dirty we just didn't know that it was a reference to the gold's origin instead of condition. Stolen, Dirty, Hot, black market
That was nearly 40 years ago, and sounds more like a dog and pony show than an audit.
An actual new audit should show how much gold is in the vaults and who owns it!
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Gotta luv Texas!
a drop in the bucket.... compared to the trillions we owe.
It's not like we're backing a currency with it!
there probably is a financial secret they are hiding (some sizable portion is lent out or owned by other countries)
it might be a good idea to show and tell versus a real audit if they have something to hide.
<< <i>People like Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, etc... speak just enough truth to make them seem reasonable, and for some inexplicable reason that makes a large number of people believe everything they say, no matter how outrageous. Just wrap yourself in the flag, and you've got solid gold (pun) credentials. >>
Maybe, but I would bet that applied to alot of folk in the public arena, not just conservatives. I thought we were into transparency these days. Maybe the gold is the only thing that is transparent.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>It is rather simple, just verify that the seals on the doors are the ones put there in 1971. Do you really have to actually count bars when you can count vaults. >>
<< <i>It is rather simple, just verify that the seals on the doors are the ones put there in 1971. Do you really have to actually count bars when you can count vaults. >>
How much could it cost to count bars?
If I went to my SD box, I would not take the fact that no one has signed the box card since my last visit as proof that everything is still there. Of course, that is the very likely case, but with a lot of assets at stake don't you think they should check like once a year?
<< <i>No question in my mind there is plenty of gold there, but at the same time an annual audit is maybe not such a bad idea, just as a matter of good business practice to make sure no one is stealing anything. Probably they already do audits, maybe just don't publicly disclose them. >>
I have no doubt at all that regular audits are performed on the inventory in Ft. Knox and that the information gathered is dispersed to the appropriate and authorized governmental agencies.
I think what Rep. Paul is alluding to is that he doesn't believe the audits. The public display in the early 70's was just that, a public display so that common (yet approved) reporters could see for themsleves that there was in fact gold in the vaults. Not every vault was toured since all they needed to show was that there was gold there. The amount of gold, has never been disclosed that I can remember.
As for another public display, who knows but what I do know is that information, no matter how small and insignificant, can be used against the security of the complex which, IMO, is the primary reason for NOT letting unauthorized individuals regularly visit the facility.
Also, his use of the term "our Federal Reserve" is a little backwards and naive as it assume that the government owns the Federal Reserve. The reality is, the Federal Reserve is a privately owned company with a single customer. The United States of America. In a sense, they own the government.
The name is LEE!
Many successful BST transactions with dozens of board members, references on request.
It would not hurt to have an audit... let a diverse/mixed group go take a look... the truth is no one knows BUT if the GOLD is NOT there
then the citizens have a right to know as we all know the gov't does not tell the truth... if they say it is there then let them prove it.
As they keep saying it is... then why wouldn't they show it & then it would shut up the whole issue... if it isn't then people need to go to prison & get it back!!
I personally don't trust ANY politican... or the Fed Res... they control everything & do not have to prove any responsibility...
I am sure they do not trust the people... so yes I would love to see if there is Gold in Knox... I will not trust or believe any
single individual or gov't person... if they open their mouth... expect a lie to come out.
The key is to protect yourself & your family... first.
<< <i>He probably thinks Elvis is still alive. >>
Now there's a really smart post from a smart person ......................................NOT
Continued arrogance coupled with incredible ignorance will continue to rule.
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
That was a easily debunked hoax. Written by one of the many conspiracy fiction bloggers.
<< <i>The amount of gold, has never been disclosed that I can remember. >>
oh no!
someone is not throughly reading every us mint annual report!
(document page 61, .pdf page 63)
6. CUSTODIAL GOLD AND SILVER BULLION RESERVES
As custodian, the United States Mint is responsible for safeguarding much of the Treasury-owned gold and silver bullion reserves, which include deep storage and working stock. The asset and the custodial liability to Treasury are reported on the Balance Sheet at statutory rates. In accordance with 31 U.S.C. § 5117(b) and 31 U.S.C. § 5116(b)(2), statutory rates of $42.2222 per fine troy ounce (FTO) of gold and no less than $1.292929292 per FTO of silver are used to value the entire custodial reserves held by the United States Mint. Accordingly, the United States Mint values the silver at $1.292929292 per FTO.
The market value for gold and silver at September 30 is determined by the London Gold Fixing (PM) rate. Amounts and values of custodial gold and silver in custody of the United States Mint at September 30 are as follows:
2009
2008
Gold - Deep Storage:
Inventories (FTO)
2009 - 245,262,897
2008 - 245,262,897
Market Value ($ per FTO)
$ 995.75
$ 884.50
Market Value ($ in thousands)
$ 244,220,530
$ 216,935,032
Statutory Value ($ in thousands)
$ 10,355,539
$ 10,355,539
Gold - Working Stock:
Inventories (FTO)
2,783,219
2,783,219
Market Value ($ per FTO)
$ 995.75
$ 884.50
Market Value ($ in thousands)
$ 2,771,390
$ 2,461,757
Statutory Value ($ in thousands)
$ 117,514
$ 117,514
Silver - Deep Storage:
Inventories (FTO)
7,075,171
7,075,171
Market Value ($ per FTO)
$ 16.45
$ 12.96
Market Value ($ in thousands)
$ 116,387
$ 91,694
Statutory Value ($ in thousands)
$ 9,148
$ 9,148
Silver - Working Stock:
Inventories (FTO)
8,924,829
8,924,829
Market Value ($ per FTO)
$ 16.45
$ 12.96
Market Value ($ in thousands)
$ 146,813
$ 115,666
Statutory Value ($ in thousands)
$ 11,539
$ 11,539
Total Market Value of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves ($ in thousands)
$ 247,255,119
$ 219,604,149
Total Statutory Value of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves ($ in thousands)
$ 10,493,740
$ 10,493,740
<< <i>I seem to recall one government having a problem with some gold covered lead bars a little while back.
That was a easily debunked hoax. Written by one of the many conspiracy fiction bloggers. >>
Coin Update News
Well I did not see an easy debunking of these stories I found a link about tungsten filled gold bars in Coin Update News. Whether it has happened or not it seems like it could happen in todays fraudulent world.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>People like Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, etc... speak just enough truth to make them seem reasonable, and for some inexplicable reason that makes a large number of people believe everything they say, no matter how outrageous. Just wrap yourself in the flag, and you've got solid gold (pun) credentials. >>
So who do you listen to? At least Paul brings up the US Constitution which is rarely ever mentioned by other politicos.
The banks are still paying zero percent to one percent on what they borrow and
loaning it at 5% to 25%. The banks are still buying and selling derivatives that no
one understands and caused the last great recession (well... let's hope it isn't the
last) because they make a lot of money on them. The government is still throwing
money at anything that doesn't move and the schools don't teach.
But we all have to believe in something.
Seeing is still believing. Maybe the bankers bought it with their bonuses.
quote removed in edit
Tungsten rumors debunked
TRUST BUT VERIFY! In business every day my friends.....EVERY DAY!
or, has no one read "The Republic" by Plato? ... "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" translates roughly to "Who will guard the guards" ....and it has been said the meaning can also be translated to "Who shall watch the watchers" or "Who watches the watchmen"....etc
In governement this is very important.
Are some of you just willing to roll over and believe EVERYTHING the government tells you?...and no, I am not saying we should believe everything RuPaul says either.
For some of you that insist that the opening of the vaults in the early 1970s is good enough for you.....SERIOUSLY? That was almost 40 years ago!
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<< <i>And if it wasn't? What difference would it make? >>
Other than revealing a theft and/or a pack of lies by our leaders it does seem that it has little connection to our currency. Maybe having gold stored somewhere makes it seem like our money is backed by something which keeps the illusion going. Of course it is good to have some real money in store in case the play money stops working.
<< <i>For coinsponge:
Tungsten rumors debunked >>
Thanks for the link but I think what he was trying to debunk a story that the U.S. govt was trying to distribute 400 oz bars. He said... "My material at www.analysis-news.com related the case of the fake bars sent by Ethiopia to South Africa (which were of course spotted as fakes at once by the Central Bank of South Africa)." I don't think he was saying that did not happen at South Africe but that some were confusing this story with those involving the US and Ft Knox. My point was just that it COULD happen.
In two months there is an election, so it must be silly season in politics. During this season, Congressmen make amazing claims in order to get publicity. If this gold-audit issue is really important, why is Congressman Paul saying that he intends to introduce legislation next year?. Why wait until next year? Is he just trying to get publicity, or is he giving Goldfinger a chance to return the stuff?
Yes, and we COULD be invaded by Canada any day now. Hey, It could happen.
I'll edit additional info here rather than hijack the thread.
The tungsten rumor started in late 2009 by a guy who goes by Jim Willie CB. I had his real name but can't locate it now. He serves up economic holocaust stories like they were home made bread. The viral nature of the gloom and doom web sites made sure it skirted around the blogosphere until the Singapore Times ran the story (October or November 2009, I believe). All of a sudden it had a slight air or legitimacy. Then the story had to go into the main press if only to dispel the rumors. I hadn't heard anything about it for about six months, but there are still people who stumble on to it and bring it back to life.
<< <i>No question in my mind there is plenty of gold there, but at the same time an annual audit is maybe not such a bad idea, just as a matter of good business practice to make sure no one is stealing anything. Probably they already do audits, maybe just don't publicly disclose them. >>
Hmm Good business and US Government. Those two things go together like waffle iron and forehead.
Why shouldn't Ft Knox be audited independently? It seems that gold being audited would be a natural especially in times like these.
I would love to know exactly how much gold is there. I would love to know how much is leased. How much we actually own outright. I think it's more then zero and well less then we are told.
Then again if the audits came back clean conspiracy buffs would cry foul regardless. If they found Ft Knox tapped with a bunch of IOU's there would be a news conference on TV explaining it away and Americans would be instructed to Watch Dancing with the Stars for answers and they would forget about the gold being gone by the morning.
I trust gold. Most other things not so much.................MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Haha! Well put! Or Funniest Home Videos!