Collecting Strategies for a 12-Coin Gold Type Set

mcarney1173

I plan on starting this set. It contains:

$1 Type One
$1 Type Two
$1 Type Three
$2.5 Liberty ALREADY HAVE THIS ONE
$2.5 Indian
$3 Gold
$5 Liberty
$5 Indian
$10 Liberty
$10 Indian
$20 Liberty
$20 St. Gaudens

Basically, my plan is an AU58 set which is possible for all the coins except the $3 Gold and T2 Gold Dollar. Then, when I get to St. Gaudens, that might be a MS64.

My question is: What strategy should I use in purchasing these coins? Buy the cheapest first? Buy the most expensive ones first? Alternate between one expensive one and one cheap one?

STONE

$3 Gold?


Anyway, I would always suggest the most expensive first. It only gets easier to complete afterwards!

Broadstruck

I'd have a hard time embarking such a set with gold at $1200 an ounce but then that's just my 2 cents.

A true gold type set would include both motto and non motto examples of each type.

BillJones

I put together this set 30 years ago and have been upgrading it since then. In fact, after I have finished the entire gold type set from 1795 to 1933, I'd like got back and get a better Type II gold dollar, but I digress.

My advice is to buy the highest grade coin that you can afford, and don't limit yourself to only AU-58 grade pieces. I can see no advantage to a "matched grade set" where all of the coins have the same grade. When it comes time to sell people won't give a hurrah that the coins are in matching grades. Most people who collect gold coins by type want Mint State pieces. They are easier to sell when the time comes, and they are usually more attractive.

I would advise you to be picky about the coins you buy. Despite the fact that two coins might have the same grades, one coin might be more attractive than another, and yet the prices will be the same or very close to one another.

Buy every certified by either PCGS or NGC. There are too many counterfeits around to take chances with raw coins.

I’ll go into ideal grade advice if you like, I think this is enough for now.

mcarney1173

<< <i>A true gold type set would include both motto and non motto examples of each type. >>



Yeah, this set is in the set registry and I like it because its very compressed. A complete type set would get way to expensive and monotonous.

RedTiger

All the coins are readily available if dates are not an issue. So my suggestion is to look at a lot of coins, preferably in person. Grading gold is a specialty. The buy order is not that important when for the most part, all the coins are out there if a person has the money. The wildcard is the price of gold, but no one knows where that will go with certainty. After taking some time to learn the grading, buy the best value for the money.

Yes, the $3 coin would seem to be missing.

BillJones

<< <i>My question is: What strategy should I use in purchasing these coins? Buy the cheapest first? Buy the most expensive ones first? Alternate between one expensive one and one cheap one? >>



If you have never bought gold before, I'd avoid buying the most expensive types first. Before gold bullion got to be so expensive I would said that perhaps the $20 St. Gaudens would have been a good start. You could buy a Choice MS-64, and really spend some time with it so that you could learn spot good mint luster and sufaces on a large coin. Then when you got to the small coins, which for some people are harder to grade, you would have a better idea as to what you should be looking for. And if you goof on a genuine $20 gold that might be a bit weak for the grade, you are not out as much money.

The trouble is bullion is $1,200 an ounce or so. Will it go up or down? No one really knows.

If you do know how to grade, and really want the whole 12 piece set, I'd buy the best coin you can afford when it comes along. Going to a show with the idea that you HAVE to buy $3 gold BEFORE you buy anything else could result you forcing an unwise purchase and missing out on something that was well worth the money.

Putting a set like this together does not need to be, nor should it be a footrace. Buy nice coins that appeal to you, and keep you powder dry if it appears that there is nothing available that suits you.

Edited to add the $5 Liberty with the motto is good coin to get to know about gold coin grading too. It is the most common coin in the 12 piece gold type set.

DeepCoin

My suggestion is to work with an experienced dealer. This may increase the cost slightly from doing all your own research, but the extra cost will come back to you in the long run.

The major question is your budget. Can you afford to spend the same amount on each coin or will you be trying to buy the smaller coins in lower grades as a means to saving money? If can afford the current price of a generic Saint in MS64, then can you afford the same for a $5 Liberty? That total budget makes all the difference.

Bill Jones is correct regarding the bullion component to the generic Saint. If you are budgeting roughly the same amount for each coin, I would focus on the $3 coin and try and find a nice AU58 as the MS coins are pricey. And I would continue with the smaller coins, especially the harder ones to find. $1 gold is far less affected by bullion prices as they have about $60 in gold content.

On the other hand, if you are a gold bug and think gold will go way up soon, buy the $20 coins first. I hold a different view, but it is what you believe, not my opinion that counts there.

Good luck!!

crypto79

I did that set and mixed in semi-keys and some interesting coins like a MS PL 20$ and used the 1909/8 as the St G. but in the end it turned out to be a lot of money locked up into something that wasn't part of my true fire for collecting so it was sold to buy Trade Dollars. Remember that it is hard to get the premium over spot out of circulated gold coins, dealers will charge them but not pay them in this gold market. Example; I paid 500$ for a AU50 1908s 5$ gold piece but could only get type money from it sold (around 400) but on the flip side I got the 20s for $1400 for the pair and sold them for around $3000. Another fun way to do it is to spread out all the different mint marks over your set. O,C,D,CC,S,D,P.

jsf

I completed a 12-piece set and I'm looking for the next piece. If I followed my somewhat former trend of buying the big stuff first, I'd be shopping for the With Motto, Saint and Indian. However, I don't want to be much of a buyer at record high gold prices.

So, I'm shopping for a few Walker upgrades, sheesh, they don't come cheap either.

roadrunner

I'd buy the coins that are the most beat down right now and have the best chance of recouping their value if gold rises from here....or best maintains their value should gold fall.

In AU58 grade it probably doesn't make a huge difference. I would probably wait on the expensive $1 T.2 and $3 golds as those have basically done nothing but weaken. They probably aren't going up very much even if gold rises as they have essentially zero gold vs. their purchase prices.

For my dollar I'd pack the grades where the most bang for the buck exists and where one could ride gold's coat tails and advance the strongest...and that's pretty much in the MS62-64 categories....except for those 2 expensive coins where AU make sense. When it comes time to sell a set no one will care if the grades vary from AU58 to MS64 vs. all matched at AU-58. These are generic coins that will sell by their individual price regardless. If I had to outfit a set for overall potential, value, gold value, etc. I'd pick as follows:

$1 Type One MS63/64
$1 Type Two AU55
$1 Type Three MS64
$2.5 Liberty MS64
$2.5 Indian MS64
$3 Gold AU58
$5 Liberty MS63/64
$5 Indian MS62
$10 Liberty MS63 $1000 (vs. $740 for an AU58!)
$10 Indian MS63 $1050 (vs, $750 for an AU58!)
$20 Liberty MS62
$20 St. Gaudens MS64

all CAC of course as in these grades they bring very little premium, but additional protection.
In picking your own pieces you can readily find pq pieces or even + quality pieces w/o paying any additional premiums.

Don't worry about the current "high" gold prices because it's a non-issue. These MS generics are basically at cyclical lows even with gold at $1240. In fact most of these are at lower prices than when gold was at $735/oz in May 2006! The MS64 saint is 30% off it's Dec 2009 price when gold was at $1226. Generic MS slabbed gold is at a 9 month low, isn't that when it's the best time to buy? If you are just considering the AU's then yes, many of these ($5's to $20's) are driven largely by bullion prices. Even so, if gold rises sharply at some point the premiums on AU58 gold $2-1/2's to $20's will increase faster than bullion. I don't expect the tiny spreads for MS63 $10's to last much longer with gold's fall seasonality approaching...same for MS64 saints vs. 61-63's. The 63's and 64's can advance 3 ways: numismatically, by gold strength, or by dealer promotions. AU58's can really only advance vs. price of bullion and that's a straight linear relationship. Promotions and numismatic inputs are often leveraged up (but down as well).

roadrunner

drwstr123

Patience and effort. Watch the market and look for deals.
The last I purchased for my set was a $10 Indian, ANACS MS61 when gold was down. (approx $360.00)
Still looking for a $3, but who cares if I get it. (only me)

DCW

Gold is at all time highs. IMO, it's not the best time to build a type set in this metal. If you can wait, Im sure prices will come back down to earth.

mcarney1173

<< <i>I'd pick as follows:

$1 Type One MS63/64
$1 Type Two AU55
$1 Type Three MS64
$2.5 Liberty MS64
$2.5 Indian MS64
$3 Gold AU58
$5 Liberty MS63/64
$5 Indian MS62
$10 Liberty MS63 $1000 (vs. $740 for an AU58!)
$10 Indian MS63 $1050 (vs, $750 for an AU58!)
$20 Liberty MS62
$20 St. Gaudens MS64

all CAC of course as in these grades they bring very little premium, but additional protection.
In picking your own pieces you can readily find pq pieces or even + quality pieces w/o paying any additional premiums.

>>



yeah, this plan is perfect. It is just about as much as I wanted to spend per coin. Thanks

roadrunner

Gold is at all time highs. IMO, it's not the best time to build a type set in this metal. If you can wait, Im sure prices will come back down to earth.

The set should be bought when generic "coin" prices are cheap....not when gold bullion is cheap. Huge difference.

While gold may be high, the generics listed above are at multi-year lows. The price of gold is not the only player in generic gold prices unless you are considering circ $5's to $20's. Then gold price is the primary driver. Those MS63 $10's listed above were $1550 back in November when gold was at $1215-$1225. Gold is now higher yet those coins are off by 35%, hardly an all-time high. In fact their all time high is over $2000 set when gold was heading to $1033 in March 2008....so they are <50% of their previous highs. Seems to me that something has to give between AU58's at $750 and MS63's at $1000-$1050. Everyone hates generic slabbed gold right now....because prices are cheap and demand is seemingly low. That's when you should buy it. It's true that generics seem to keep falling short of their previous highs on each seqential run. And that's a function of the general numismatic market slowly losing momentum in 2007-2008. In any case those coins still rally hard when gold gets into a year long rally making new all time highs.

roadrunner

messydesk

Look at lots of coins, and eventually you'll recognize The One for your set instantly. Learn what the striking characteristics are for each type and for various dates within each type so you can better judge which ones are really nice, and favor dates that typically show the sharpest details. Try an find a $1 Type 2 that isn't clashed.

BillJones

<< <i>$1 Type One MS63/64
$1 Type Two AU55
$1 Type Three MS64
$2.5 Liberty MS64
$2.5 Indian MS64
$3 Gold AU58
$5 Liberty MS63/64
$5 Indian MS62
$10 Liberty MS63 $1000 (vs. $740 for an AU58!)
$10 Indian MS63 $1050 (vs, $750 for an AU58!)
$20 Liberty MS62
$20 St. Gaudens MS64
4 >>



I would say that this is very good list from to work. It's been my observation that you can find smooth, attractive $20 Liberty coins in MS-62, but you will need to hunt for them. Don't buy an ugly baggy one, and don't be afraid to buy an 1904 unless you can find another date for very little premium. 1904 is by far the most common date. If it were not for the 1904 $20 Liberty, that type would be far more expensive. The other dates are much harder to find.

roadrunner

Date premiums were so decimated during the 2009 run up that I think you can still find much better dates still at or near common prices in the $1's to $20's. Dates like a 1907-s $20 in MS63 that used to bring up to a 100% premium in the "old days" were essentially down to 0-5% by the end of 2009. The same was true of many better D and S $20 Saints. In grades of MS62 there is probably no date premium for most better date $20's. So no need to settle for a 1904 when you can get a 1907-s for the same money. The downside potential is that if gold keeps on going and going in the years ahead additional better dates and higher grades will be swallowed up as well. It's entirely possible that generic 1909-1915 $20 Philly saints for example in 63 to even 64 grades could lose their premiums with gold at much higher levels.

roadrunner

ambro51

I would much rather be buying a "good date" $1 gold, especially the Type 3.....perhaps an 1864, 1871 (usually found extremely well stuck and with a lot of luster), 1878....and consider PCGS AU58 especially if you can view the coin in hand. This can be an awesome grade.... Why settle for a coin with a surviving population of 8,000 when you can find one with 200 or so extant specimens for the same money? MOST OVERRATED are any date after 1878. These were saved in quantity, and though that MS64 is a beauty....it is quite common, and that high price does NOT reflect rarity.

roadrunner

I think the "high" price that a common late date T.3 in MS64 brings is more a function of its type coin gold scarcity. Puruse the auction floor and you'll see 3x to 30X as many $2-1/2's, $5's, $10's, and $20's in those graded. The only thing holding the T.3 back is it's small size. And it may or may not continue on that way. Collecting a much rarer date in AU requires an influx of date collectors which also may or may not ever happen. I think from current levels the downside in both forms of T.3's is pretty limited as both are fairly cheap in historical terms. 1904 $20's are extremely common but in retrospect this date in MS63-64 has been about the best performer in the entire generic gold sector over the past 8 years. Even more common MS63/64 1924 Saints aren't far behind either. In MS63-64 1904 $20's population is probably in the hundreds of thousands and multiples more common than any other US gold coin in those grades except the Saint. And in particular about 12X more common than the T.3 gold in MS63/64 grades combined. Here we're talking about type rarity vs. date rarity. If 10,000 people decided to put together a mostly MS63/64 19th/20th century gold type set there would not be enough gold dollars to fit the bill...while there would no problem filling the $20's. I guess it comes down to where you want to hang your hat, on date rarity or type scarcity. Where will tomorrow's demand come from if gold goes to $2000/oz, date collectors or type collectors? Or will the $1's just flop on all accounts because so many gold type sets are 20th century and do not include the $1's? If the economy continues to flounder and gold hangs strong one would think that the formation of new type sets will outnumber date sets. Collectors flourish in a growing economy. Speculators and investors in gold flourish in uncertain economic times.

I have to ask the question. Are you contemplating building a gold type set because gold appeals to you based on the current economic trends or because you are turned on by neat and underrated dates in the various series? If gold were performing as it was in the 1980's and 1990's would you be building a gold type set today?

roadrunner

robkool

Personally, I would start with the smaller gold pieces first... G$1 type 1 & 3. Try buying the AU55/58, or low grade MS60/61. Since these pieces can be obtained on a budget, and not much affected by the market at the same time. MS62 & up pieces could end up costing double , or triple the price as compared with an AU+/MS60-61. Less risk involved... The quarter ($2 1/2) & ($5) libs & indians can also be found at bargain levels in AU grades too. Try not buying anything in high MS grades 62 & up, since the risk is too high for these pieces just in case the market takes a big dip... The $10 & $20 libs, indians, & saints can be found in AU55/58 at bargain levels, however, MS61/62 $20 libs & saints would your best buys tho. Just remember, the $10 & $20 pieces would also be more affected by the metals market than any other smaller denomination gold pieces... The G$1 type 2 & $3 gold piece should be the last pieces to buy on the list. Only buy the AU grades for these pieces...

Hope this helps.

ambro51

You know also.....an interesting and workable variation on type collection is doing a common mint, maybe san francisco?