Taken from an Ebay auction - Seller is trying to educate the public with little success
Scavenger
Posts: 987
For over a year and a half we have continually tried to warn ebayers about an epidemic that poses a serious threat to the foundation of coin collecting itself, but over and over novices, uniformed buyers, and bargain hunters alike continue to seek out the lowest price they can find and end up trapped in fake "1883" Hawaiian coinage originating from China. They are so locked in on saving money that it seems these eBayers are oblivious to the fact that the coin they are receiving is a counterfeit. One Asian seller in particular, who sells almost exclusively Chinese reproductions, has hoodwinked enough buyers without a negative feedback to have been the recipient of eBay's highest seller rating. Sound preposterous? Check out item #180487526739 (which sold for $53), a totally bogus Hawaiian quarter listed along with several other obvious fakes. Since bargain-hunting eBayers choose again and again not to purchase my fairly priced, genuine Kingdom of Hawaii coinage (many being certified by reputable grading services) and instead bid on blatant counterfeits, here is what they must really want. Trouble is folks, it's not real! If you cannot tell which two of the five coins in image 5 are counterfeit, then it is extremely advisable to only buy 1883 Hawaii quarters, halves, and dollars (even dimes are not immune from counterfeiting as evidenced by item #120551343406) from a seller that you trust (and never from one along the Pacific rim).
If you have been bidding on or buying the $150-200 coins out of Asia, they are absolutely and without exception not genuine. More and more counterfeit Hawaii quarters and halves are starting to appear as well, not to mention bust dollars, seated dollars, trade dollars, key date morgan dollars, early silver commemoratives, and all kinds of world crowns. Mahalo (thanks) for looking at our listing!
The sole intention of this listing is to educate prospective bidders of Hawaiian Silver Dollars on what identifies a Chinese counterfeit. Note that they will ring like a struck coin (rather than a cast reproduction) and will weigh essentially correct (the standard weight for U.S. silver dollars of the era). They will, however, display an overall "dished" appearance and bluntness on the highpoints. A tell-tale sign of a counterfeit, as seen in images 3 and 4 (both taken directly from eBay listings where the coins were offered as, even guaranteed to be genuine), is a small "circle" rather than a normal serif attached to the lower left portion of the E in EA on the reverse. We have presented this evidence to dozens of domestic sellers of blatant Chinese counterfeits over the past year and, to their credit, some have pulled their listings down. Others, however, have ignored the facts, calling it only an opinion, and left it up to the buyer to return what has been shown to them to be a counterfeit. All we are saying is be very careful about any 1883 Hawaii Silver Dollar offered for sale and absolutely stay away from all overseas listings!
It is the opinion of this eBay seller that these listings and all of the crown-sized counterfeit coinage pouring out of China should be pulled down immediately and that eBay's failure to do so hurts the credibility of all sellers. Is this frustrating to honest sellers of genuine Kingdom of Hawaii coins such as myself that are often working on a net profit of less than 10 percent? You bet it is!
Millions Lost From Coin Fakes, Hobby Leaders Warn
Posted by on 10/12/2009
Hobby leaders have issued a new release to inform collectors about the dangers of counterfeit coins offered for sale in online auctions and elsewhere, such as flea markets and swap meets.
(Fallbrook, California) — Chinese-made counterfeit coins pose a significant financial threat to unsuspecting consumers, according to leaders of five of the country’s most influential rare coin organizations. They warn the public is spending millions of dollars on fake U.S. coins offered in online auctions and elsewhere, such as flea markets and swap meets.
In a jointly-issued consumer advisory the groups caution the public not to purchase any so-called "replica" coins because they may be in violation of federal law. They also urge consumers to only purchase genuine rare coins from reputable, professional dealers or face the risk of losing money on copies that are illegal to re-sell.
Below is the consumer protection warning issued by (in alphabetical order) the American Numismatic Association (www.money.org), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (www.ICTAonline.org), Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (www.NGCcoin.com), Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (www.PNGdealers.com).
Consumer Advisory About Counterfeit Coins
Hobby periodicals report that more than a million counterfeit coins manufactured in China have been fraudulently sold in the United States posing a significant financial risk for unsuspecting consumers. Buyer beware! Consumers who buy an item based only on its perceived rarity and who have no knowledge as to how to determine whether the coin is genuine subject themselves to great risk of losing their money
The American Numismatic Association (ANA), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA), Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) urge consumers to educate themselves before making purchases: know what you are buying and purchase only from reputable, experienced rare coin dealers (professional numismatists).
"We believe many of these counterfeits subsequently are being resold as genuine rare coins in online auctions and at flea markets and swap meets," said Clifford Mishler, ANA President.
"Millions of dollars already have been spent on these fakes and potentially millions more may be unwittingly lost by consumers who mistakenly think they’re getting a genuine rare coin," warned Paul Montgomery, PNG President.
It is a violation of United States federal law to sell unmarked replicas. The U.S. Hobby Protection Act, first enacted in 1973 (Public Law 93-167 15 US Code §2101 et seq) requires manufacturers and importers of imitation numismatic items to mark them plainly and permanently with the word, "COPY" in accordance with the Code of Federal Regulations (16 CFR part 304). Thousands of coins described as "copy" or "replica" are listed for sale in online auctions every day. There also are numerous reports of replica coins being exported from China without the word, "COPY," incused in the surface as the law requires. On most on-line offers, photos of the replica depict the word, falsely showing consumers a different product than the one they’re actually buying.
"We believe many of these are simply counterfeits that eventually will be purchased for significant amounts of money by unsuspecting buyers," said Fred Weinberg, ICTA Chairman.
Coin World, a respected weekly hobby publication, recently reported that 99 percent of the "replica" items sold into the U.S. market do not contain the required "COPY" markings. One counterfeiter in China told the publication he already has produced and sold more than one million coins.
If you have been bidding on or buying the $150-200 coins out of Asia, they are absolutely and without exception not genuine. More and more counterfeit Hawaii quarters and halves are starting to appear as well, not to mention bust dollars, seated dollars, trade dollars, key date morgan dollars, early silver commemoratives, and all kinds of world crowns. Mahalo (thanks) for looking at our listing!
The sole intention of this listing is to educate prospective bidders of Hawaiian Silver Dollars on what identifies a Chinese counterfeit. Note that they will ring like a struck coin (rather than a cast reproduction) and will weigh essentially correct (the standard weight for U.S. silver dollars of the era). They will, however, display an overall "dished" appearance and bluntness on the highpoints. A tell-tale sign of a counterfeit, as seen in images 3 and 4 (both taken directly from eBay listings where the coins were offered as, even guaranteed to be genuine), is a small "circle" rather than a normal serif attached to the lower left portion of the E in EA on the reverse. We have presented this evidence to dozens of domestic sellers of blatant Chinese counterfeits over the past year and, to their credit, some have pulled their listings down. Others, however, have ignored the facts, calling it only an opinion, and left it up to the buyer to return what has been shown to them to be a counterfeit. All we are saying is be very careful about any 1883 Hawaii Silver Dollar offered for sale and absolutely stay away from all overseas listings!
It is the opinion of this eBay seller that these listings and all of the crown-sized counterfeit coinage pouring out of China should be pulled down immediately and that eBay's failure to do so hurts the credibility of all sellers. Is this frustrating to honest sellers of genuine Kingdom of Hawaii coins such as myself that are often working on a net profit of less than 10 percent? You bet it is!
Millions Lost From Coin Fakes, Hobby Leaders Warn
Posted by on 10/12/2009
Hobby leaders have issued a new release to inform collectors about the dangers of counterfeit coins offered for sale in online auctions and elsewhere, such as flea markets and swap meets.
(Fallbrook, California) — Chinese-made counterfeit coins pose a significant financial threat to unsuspecting consumers, according to leaders of five of the country’s most influential rare coin organizations. They warn the public is spending millions of dollars on fake U.S. coins offered in online auctions and elsewhere, such as flea markets and swap meets.
In a jointly-issued consumer advisory the groups caution the public not to purchase any so-called "replica" coins because they may be in violation of federal law. They also urge consumers to only purchase genuine rare coins from reputable, professional dealers or face the risk of losing money on copies that are illegal to re-sell.
Below is the consumer protection warning issued by (in alphabetical order) the American Numismatic Association (www.money.org), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (www.ICTAonline.org), Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (www.NGCcoin.com), Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (www.PNGdealers.com).
Consumer Advisory About Counterfeit Coins
Hobby periodicals report that more than a million counterfeit coins manufactured in China have been fraudulently sold in the United States posing a significant financial risk for unsuspecting consumers. Buyer beware! Consumers who buy an item based only on its perceived rarity and who have no knowledge as to how to determine whether the coin is genuine subject themselves to great risk of losing their money
The American Numismatic Association (ANA), the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA), Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) urge consumers to educate themselves before making purchases: know what you are buying and purchase only from reputable, experienced rare coin dealers (professional numismatists).
"We believe many of these counterfeits subsequently are being resold as genuine rare coins in online auctions and at flea markets and swap meets," said Clifford Mishler, ANA President.
"Millions of dollars already have been spent on these fakes and potentially millions more may be unwittingly lost by consumers who mistakenly think they’re getting a genuine rare coin," warned Paul Montgomery, PNG President.
It is a violation of United States federal law to sell unmarked replicas. The U.S. Hobby Protection Act, first enacted in 1973 (Public Law 93-167 15 US Code §2101 et seq) requires manufacturers and importers of imitation numismatic items to mark them plainly and permanently with the word, "COPY" in accordance with the Code of Federal Regulations (16 CFR part 304). Thousands of coins described as "copy" or "replica" are listed for sale in online auctions every day. There also are numerous reports of replica coins being exported from China without the word, "COPY," incused in the surface as the law requires. On most on-line offers, photos of the replica depict the word, falsely showing consumers a different product than the one they’re actually buying.
"We believe many of these are simply counterfeits that eventually will be purchased for significant amounts of money by unsuspecting buyers," said Fred Weinberg, ICTA Chairman.
Coin World, a respected weekly hobby publication, recently reported that 99 percent of the "replica" items sold into the U.S. market do not contain the required "COPY" markings. One counterfeiter in China told the publication he already has produced and sold more than one million coins.
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Comments
We need a "Great Wall from China"
<< <i>ebay should get out of the China business.
We need a "Great Wall from China" >>
I have nothing against sellers from China who do not sell counterfeits.
What we need is for eBay to stop aiding and abetting criminals!
What we need is for the U. S. government to start prosecuting counterfeiters!
And I don't accept eBay's "we are only a venue" statement. Heritage is a venue too, and they don't auction counterfeits!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Good luck with that.... even the concept is laughable. Cheers, RickO
<< <i>
<< <i>ebay should get out of the China business.
We need a "Great Wall from China" >>
I have nothing against sellers from China who do not sell counterfeits.
What we need is for eBay to stop aiding and abetting criminals!
What we need is for the U. S. government to start prosecuting counterfeiters!
And I don't accept eBay's "we are only a venue" statement. Heritage is a venue too, and they don't auction counterfeits! >>
What would you have ebay do? Seriously? Consider the volume of sales, the unlimited variety or goods, the hundreds of specialized collectibles, etc.
Should ebay hire hundreds of thousands of people to watch every auction, around the clock, around the world, and step in when anything smells fishy? Or merely tens of thousands focused on problem areas, of which collectibles is just one (and with many hundreds of types from gems to barbie dolls)?
The problem, IMO, is not ebay. Nuke ebay and something else will take its place, facing the same issues.
The problem is not cracking down on counterfeiting operations. Jeez...they're not even underground in China.
Lance.
<< <i>"What we need is for the U. S. government to start prosecuting counterfeiters!"
Good luck with that.... even the concept is laughable. Cheers, RickO >>
I do understand your cynicism, RickO. But as they say on Sports Center, it could happen. The government cracked down on Henning in the mid-1950's and he was making bogus nickels and putting them into circulation. I would argue that a heckuva lot more money has been lost to the current-day counterfeiters than as a result of Henning's counterfeits. Now if we could only convince the government to act. I know they don't have jurisdiction in China, but they do have jurisdiction over the "venue" that is aiding and abetting this criminal activity. I guess we need to find someone in the Department of Justice who is a coin collector. Does anyone know one?
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>And I don't accept eBay's "we are only a venue" statement. Heritage is a venue too, and they don't auction counterfeits! >>
Not to excuse eBay entirely, but does Heritage auction items that are never in their possession?
<< <i>
<< <i>"What we need is for the U. S. government to start prosecuting counterfeiters!"
Good luck with that.... even the concept is laughable. Cheers, RickO >>
I do understand your cynicism, RickO. But as they say on Sports Center, it could happen. The government cracked down on Henning in the mid-1950's and he was making bogus nickels and putting them into circulation. I would argue that a heckuva lot more money has been lost to the current-day counterfeiters than as a result of Henning's counterfeits. Now if we could only convince the government to act. I know they don't have jurisdiction in China, but they do have jurisdiction over the "venue" that is aiding and abetting this criminal activity. I guess we need to find someone in the Department of Justice who is a coin collector. Does anyone know one? >>
The difference is that Henning was "making bogus nickels and putting them into circulation." (my emphasis) The feds have no jurisdiction over fraud. (Unless, of course, someone wants to file postal fraud charges--and even then, someone has to file charges.)
<< <i>You want the government involved? Try paying your income tax with a wheelbarrow of the crap. Then they will get involved. >>
LOL.
<< <i>You want the government involved? Try paying your income tax with a wheelbarrow of the crap. Then they will get involved. >>
No doubt. But their involvement will most certainly not be in a way that inconveniences the counterfeit makers much at all. The taxpayer will, however, find much more involvement in the process...
You want the government involved? Try paying your income tax with a wheelbarrow of the crap. Then they will get involved.