Complete Newb question here...
arex
Posts: 999 ✭
But for raw cards what do you guys and gals use to help determine value on cards?
Im moving over to cards after being a comic collector for almost a decade. In comics you have the Overstreet Price Guide for raw comics and the OS is really just something people buy out of habit. For graded books we have GPA Analysis which works a lot like VCP for cards.
However, is there a publication like Beckett that gives semi-accurate pricing on cards? I can look at eBay and get some ideas but everyone knows that eBay is a crap shoot.
So, where can I begin to get a grounding on values so I can start to determine fair market value for myself.
Thanks,
Arex
Im moving over to cards after being a comic collector for almost a decade. In comics you have the Overstreet Price Guide for raw comics and the OS is really just something people buy out of habit. For graded books we have GPA Analysis which works a lot like VCP for cards.
However, is there a publication like Beckett that gives semi-accurate pricing on cards? I can look at eBay and get some ideas but everyone knows that eBay is a crap shoot.
So, where can I begin to get a grounding on values so I can start to determine fair market value for myself.
Thanks,
Arex
0
Comments
For vintage, Beckett has no clue. So a lot depends on which era you will be collecting or selling.
I think for raw cards the best gauge is Ebay's completed auctions.
It won't give you a precise value, but it will give you a very useful range for cards in comparable shape to yours.
You might also check current BIN prices on Ebay, and figure your raw card is worth a little less than what most BINs are set at.
You certainly cannot be serious. Ebay completed listings is perhaps the MOST ACCURATE source of pricing trends in cards. Beckett doesnt buy baseball cards....people buy baseball cards.
<< <i>" I can look at eBay and get some ideas but everyone knows that eBay is a crap shoot. "
You certainly cannot be serious. Ebay completed listings is perhaps the MOST ACCURATE source of pricing trends in cards. Beckett doesnt buy baseball cards....people buy baseball cards. >>
I certainly can be serious. However, I was looking at it from a comic book perspective where eBay is not a very good indicator of price, especially on raw comics.
If eBay is the best price guide around then my question is answered.
I guess that getting an accurate grade (your own) on a baseball card is much easier than it is to get an accurate grade on a comic book on eBay.
<< <i>I think Beckett is more useful for modern cards that experience a lot of trading in the marketplace.
For vintage, Beckett has no clue. So a lot depends on which era you will be collecting or selling.
I think for raw cards the best gauge is Ebay's completed auctions.
It won't give you a precise value, but it will give you a very useful range for cards in comparable shape to yours.
You might also check current BIN prices on Ebay, and figure your raw card is worth a little less than what most BINs are set at. >>
Im looking at collecting cards from 85 back.
Does this still hold true? I am assuming what you mean by modern are cards within the last 10 years or so?
<< <i>However, I was looking at it from a comic book perspective where eBay is not a very good indicator of price, especially on raw comics. >>
I'm not quite following you, here. You've figured out how to look at completed auctions on Ebay, yet you claim its "not a very good indicator of price." What do you think is a better indicator of price than an auction (open to any bidder on the planet) that just closed and you have the winning bid right in front of you? Just look at the last few closed auctions and that is your best source. No magazine is going to be more accurate than that.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
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<< <i>However, I was looking at it from a comic book perspective where eBay is not a very good indicator of price, especially on raw comics. >>
I'm not quite following you, here. You've figured out how to look at completed auctions on Ebay, yet you claim its "not a very good indicator of price." What do you think is a better indicator of price than an auction (open to any bidder on the planet) that just closed and you have the winning bid right in front of you? Just look at the last few closed auctions and that is your best source. No magazine is going to be more accurate than that. >>
We are looking at it from different angles.
eBay auctions for comics are not a good source of pricing information. Too many variables concerning grade. A book can have issues that you can not tell from the scan that greatly impacts the grade and therefore the value. Comic sellers of raw books on eBay are a notoriously bad lot, overall for grading, which causes much skepticism and doubt on price.
Comics also has a lot of online sites that sell and that helps give a much better view of pricing than does eBay.
It seems that for cards, there isnt the mass outlets for buying cards that there is for buying comics. Put another way, eBay seems to be the main source for cards in the hobby whereas in comics, that is not the case.
So, along that line, it does make sense that eBay completed auctions would be a very good guide as to the value of raw and, if sold enough, graded cards (i will say that VCP gathers that info so I dont have to do the digging)
And just to be cantankerous, eBay simply gives you a snapshot of what two people will pay for something at a point in time. While it helps to determine value, it is not the only arbiter of value. To get an idea of market value one needs, preferably, multiple sources of pricing data, rather than eBay which is only one selling venue.
<< <i>I have always found Ebay to be the most accurate for most collectibles including comics. >>
For VG books and books in that area, sure.
For uber high grade and HG slabbed books, well, eBay aint the best place.
Places like Comic Link, Heritage, Metro, Highgradecomics.com etc are much better determiners of market value
Arex
there is plenty of information out there you just have to do a little leg work
<< <i>check out a couple other sites; naxcom(sportsbuy), checkoutmycards, sportlots
there is plenty of information out there you just have to do a little leg work >>
I didnt even know about those places, so thanks!
I have bought from Micky's Clubhouse before on a recommendation from the SGC Message boards.
Ill take a look at those places and, again, thanks for the info y'all
Arex
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<< <i>I think Beckett is more useful for modern cards that experience a lot of trading in the marketplace.
For vintage, Beckett has no clue. So a lot depends on which era you will be collecting or selling.
I think for raw cards the best gauge is Ebay's completed auctions.
It won't give you a precise value, but it will give you a very useful range for cards in comparable shape to yours.
You might also check current BIN prices on Ebay, and figure your raw card is worth a little less than what most BINs are set at. >>
Im looking at collecting cards from 85 back.
Does this still hold true? I am assuming what you mean by modern are cards within the last 10 years or so? >>
Moderns are probably post 1975ish...and some would argue even older than that!
Modern cards are, at the oldest, from 1980 then
<< <i>Ok, so another bit of info picked up!
Modern cards are, at the oldest, from 1980 then >>
Not at all, SMR considers 1973 Topps "Modern"
I personally collect 1975 Topps and I would consider them vintage but I think the generally accepted cut off is 1974 I think it has something to do with whether or not there were multiple series or just one. Just an opinion
Jason
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
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<< <i>However, I was looking at it from a comic book perspective where eBay is not a very good indicator of price, especially on raw comics. >>
I'm not quite following you, here. You've figured out how to look at completed auctions on Ebay, yet you claim its "not a very good indicator of price." What do you think is a better indicator of price than an auction (open to any bidder on the planet) that just closed and you have the winning bid right in front of you? Just look at the last few closed auctions and that is your best source. No magazine is going to be more accurate than that. >>
We are looking at it from different angles.
eBay auctions for comics are not a good source of pricing information. Too many variables concerning grade. A book can have issues that you can not tell from the scan that greatly impacts the grade and therefore the value. Comic sellers of raw books on eBay are a notoriously bad lot, overall for grading, which causes much skepticism and doubt on price.
Comics also has a lot of online sites that sell and that helps give a much better view of pricing than does eBay.
It seems that for cards, there isnt the mass outlets for buying cards that there is for buying comics. Put another way, eBay seems to be the main source for cards in the hobby whereas in comics, that is not the case.
So, along that line, it does make sense that eBay completed auctions would be a very good guide as to the value of raw and, if sold enough, graded cards (i will say that VCP gathers that info so I dont have to do the digging)
And just to be cantankerous, eBay simply gives you a snapshot of what two people will pay for something at a point in time. While it helps to determine value, it is not the only arbiter of value. To get an idea of market value one needs, preferably, multiple sources of pricing data, rather than eBay which is only one selling venue. >>
I think you seem to believe that the price a dealer wants for something setting in their display case, is more important or even equally as important as the price of something actually selling.
I can point out endless card dealers with stuff priced much higher then things selling for on eBay. The key part here however...is selling.
I have never found OS or any other hobby guide accurate as you seem to want, they are just guides. In fact, OS should have went down the toilet for their role in the Valiant-Images era. When OS was claiming these comics were jumping in value every month. Comics with 3x the print runs then there was collectors.
If you buy comics or cards from the mall, they are going to want almost full book. Both you can get a fraction under online.
So, if you want to believe your comic or collection is likely worth 3x what eBay says it is....don't try to sell it and save yourself some grief.
Clear Skies,
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
The more I learn - the more I feel like I don't know squat.
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<< <i>However, I was looking at it from a comic book perspective where eBay is not a very good indicator of price, especially on raw comics. >>
I'm not quite following you, here. You've figured out how to look at completed auctions on Ebay, yet you claim its "not a very good indicator of price." What do you think is a better indicator of price than an auction (open to any bidder on the planet) that just closed and you have the winning bid right in front of you? Just look at the last few closed auctions and that is your best source. No magazine is going to be more accurate than that. >>
We are looking at it from different angles.
eBay auctions for comics are not a good source of pricing information. Too many variables concerning grade. A book can have issues that you can not tell from the scan that greatly impacts the grade and therefore the value. Comic sellers of raw books on eBay are a notoriously bad lot, overall for grading, which causes much skepticism and doubt on price.
Comics also has a lot of online sites that sell and that helps give a much better view of pricing than does eBay.
It seems that for cards, there isnt the mass outlets for buying cards that there is for buying comics. Put another way, eBay seems to be the main source for cards in the hobby whereas in comics, that is not the case.
So, along that line, it does make sense that eBay completed auctions would be a very good guide as to the value of raw and, if sold enough, graded cards (i will say that VCP gathers that info so I dont have to do the digging)
And just to be cantankerous, eBay simply gives you a snapshot of what two people will pay for something at a point in time. While it helps to determine value, it is not the only arbiter of value. To get an idea of market value one needs, preferably, multiple sources of pricing data, rather than eBay which is only one selling venue. >>
I think you seem to believe that the price a dealer wants for something setting in their display case, is more important or even equally as important as the price of something actually selling.
I can point out endless card dealers with stuff priced much higher then things selling for on eBay. The key part here however...is selling.
I have never found OS or any other hobby guide accurate as you seem to want, they are just guides. In fact, OS should have went down the toilet for their role in the Valiant-Images era. When OS was claiming these comics were jumping in value every month. Comics with 3x the print runs then there was collectors.
If you buy comics or cards from the mall, they are going to want almost full book. Both you can get a fraction under online.
So, if you want to believe your comic or collection is likely worth 3x what eBay says it is....don't try to sell it and save yourself some grief.
Clear Skies,
Mark >>
I understand what you are saying. I was attempting to explain my idea on what I know about comics and what I am trying to learn about cards.
Yes, OS is not in touch on many books. It is impossible as it is a yearly publication and really the info is probably around 15 months behind.
Yes, I know that dealers can put any price on anything they want, doesnt mean it will sell though and that sure as hell doesnt make it priced at FMV. Ebay does have its flaws when trying to use it to gauge values on most items that are not traded in huge amounts. Im not looking to have a guide that is hard and fast and perfect. That isnt going to happen. Im just trying to get an idea as how to gauge what I want to buy and what the range is that I should have to pay. Nothing more nor less.
I might be more of a novice at cards but im not one in comics. I understand markets and pricing.
Like I said, im just trying to learn this market.
And I do believe we are saying the same things, in a round about way.
How many fake 1986-87 Michael Jordan rookies out there compared to fake Incredible Hulk #181s?
Depends on what cards you collect. Vintage 1880-1941, the best is the SCD Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards (Bob Lemke). But its only a guide, so you can get an idea of how rare and in demand cards are compared to other sets and players. Also a main reason for a good guide is to use it to ID cards and follow checklists. Its about 90% accurate for raw cards in normal "as found" conditions, and even the prices that are a bit off, they arent too off.
The values that are a bit tougher to predict/follow are for very high grade common cards in slabs, because so much stupid $$ it tossed that way by registery white whale collectors trying to brag they have the best of the best, that it tweaks the true value, sometimes drastically, ie clowns paying 5 figures for a common Bowman card that has sold for under $30 for the last 20 years.
ie this EXTREME example,
Lot #86 in this recently completed auction (link below)
$30 cards (if raw, like it should be) sells for $12,130.70, because it says "9" on the plastic tomb its in
PS Compare that common no-name Bowman card (lot #86) to Lot #6 which is one of the truly great vintage cards.... with great eye appeal, for the same $$ overall
High book on lot #86 is $18, Lot #6 $30,000, yet both cards sell for the same $$ BIG TIME CRAZY!!!
I would tend to agree with the OP that Ebay is NOT the end all for prices.
Like he mentioned, their are variables to consider, like centering for one.
As for the 'world' comment, just how many baseball card buyers from Borneo are there?
Steve
<< <i>Buy a few good books and read all you can on the internet, and try to become an expert in the field you want to collect/invest in...... before buying cards blindly...
Depends on what cards you collect. Vintage 1880-1941, the best is the SCD Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards (Bob Lemke). But its only a guide, so you can get an idea of how rare and in demand cards are compared to other sets and players. Also a main reason for a good guide is to use it to ID cards and follow checklists. Its about 90% accurate for raw cards in normal "as found" conditions, and even the prices that are a bit off, they arent too off.
The values that are a bit tougher to predict/follow are for very high grade common cards in slabs, because so much stupid $$ it tossed that way by registery white whale collectors trying to brag they have the best of the best, that it tweaks the true value, sometimes drastically, ie clowns paying 5 figures for a common Bowman card that has sold for under $30 for the last 20 years.
ie this EXTREME example,
Lot #86 in this recently completed auction (link below)
$30 cards (if raw, like it should be) sells for $12,130.70, because it says "9" on the plastic tomb its in
PS Compare that common no-name Bowman card (lot #86) to Lot #6 which is one of the truly great vintage cards.... with great eye appeal, for the same $$ overall
High book on lot #86 is $18, Lot #6 $30,000, yet both cards sell for the same $$ BIG TIME CRAZY!!! >>
I dont have an inclination for the older cards, especially pre-war. Im working, slowly, on 58 Topps All-Stars, 60 Topps HoFers, and going to gradually start putting sets together from like 70-85.
I completely understand the insane prices paid for collectibles because of the number in the top right hand (or left hand corner).
Case in point and this was a book I bought and submitted;
I bought a Captain America 116 from my LCS. Paid $20 for it and new that it was high grade. I was thinking 9.6 which would be like a 96/9 in cards. I sent it off and it came back as a 9.8. Tough grade and only 1 of 2
Now, in 9.4 thats a $75 or so book
In 9.6 it was probably a $200 or so book
In 9.8 I got $1100 for it.
And I only got that much for it because of the number on the slab.