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Why Do We Rag on Dealers Who Don't Support Two-Way Markets?
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
We've done our share of beating up the modern proof guys who don't do buybacks.
It occurred to me that a lot of variety collectors operate the same way. They look at a lot of coins, cherrypick the varieties, then attempt to sell them for obscene prices. They have no interest in buying them back at 70-80% of their asking price, they are only interested in making the Big Score.
Why does this behaviour evoke a certain sleaze factor?
It's not like they don't work hard for what they get, or are asking for something for nothing.
It occurred to me that a lot of variety collectors operate the same way. They look at a lot of coins, cherrypick the varieties, then attempt to sell them for obscene prices. They have no interest in buying them back at 70-80% of their asking price, they are only interested in making the Big Score.
Why does this behaviour evoke a certain sleaze factor?
It's not like they don't work hard for what they get, or are asking for something for nothing.
0
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Wondercoin
...sell them for obscene prices... only interested in making the big score...
These are not people I choose to do business with. I am a long term collector, and don't mind a dealer making a profit so they can stay in business, and generally I don't feel these are people I can tust to be one of my dealers over the long term. In thinly traded markets I can see dealers only wanting to pay 50-70 of their sell prices, they may hold things in inventory a long time which soaks up capital and slows cashflow. But if the well known dealers in a speciality (such as high grade moderns and varieties) is not interested in purchasing at that level the collector needs to think they may be buying into an artificially enhanced bubble.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
If you're going to take out a full-page ad in Coin World, listing a bunch of coins and touting their low populations, then write a book about how rare and valuable said coins are, I think it's reasonable to assume that when it's time to sell them back to you that they would be purchased at a price consistent with the claims you've made.
For really cheap to fairly cheap material, quite often the retail price reflects a service fee for stocking the item as well as some market value for it. In the basal case, if you buy a State Quarter for 50 cents, the item you bought is worth a quarter, and you should not expect to get any more than a quarter for it on the wholesale market. If you have a roll of State Quarters of all the same issue, you might get a buck over face if the dealer needs it. As the prices to up the service fee disappears, and the wholesale value for the item comes into play.
BUT …
Dealers who specialize in a specific area of the market where the prices are beyond the “service fee” level should be prepared to support that market. For example if I pay $1,000 for a coin, I would expect a dealer who running an on going business to be willing to pay at least $600 to $700 for that item if I choose to sell it back to him. Responses like, “I’m not buying that right now,” when there has been no downturn in the market for the item in question is grounds for me to conclude that that dealer is not honest or ethical. I’ve been burned a couple of times by dealers like that over years, and they get on my “never deal with them again” list.
The difference between collectors who cherry pick a rare variety and sell it for a strong profit to a dealer, and dealer who does not support his market is obvious. When the collector sells the coin to a dealer, the buyer is presumed to be a professional who knows what the market price for the item is. As a professional, the dealer does not expect a non-professional to be supporting the market for him or insuring the dealer that he can make a profit or break even. Therefore I see great differences in responsibility between the professional dealer and the cherry picking collector.
<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Have to agree.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
If you are dumb enough to pay a premium for it I am smart enough to sell it to you ... but I am not dumb enough to buy it back from you, nor will I ever pay a premium to obtain it. If I can't buy it as a common date I'll pass.
<< <i>We've done our share of beating up the modern proof guys who don't do buybacks.
It occurred to me that a lot of variety collectors operate the same way. They look at a lot of coins, cherrypick the varieties, then attempt to sell them for obscene prices. They have no interest in buying them back at 70-80% of their asking price, they are only interested in making the Big Score.
Why does this behaviour evoke a certain sleaze factor?
It's not like they don't work hard for what they get, or are asking for something for nothing. >>
Your title says "dealers," but the posting says "variety collectors."
Please clarify who it is you are bashing.
TD
<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
It all depends upon the series. If you are talking about modern coins that have tiny differences between the dies, paying big bucks for them because they are thought to be "rare" can be a huge risk. If you are talking about early half cents, large cents or half dollars, the markets for those minor varieties are very strong, and getting your money out, often with profit if you bought wisely, is very much a possibility.
<< <i>Your title says "dealers," but the posting says "variety collectors."
Please clarify who it is you are bashing. >>
I thought it was clear. He's saying that we commonly bash dealers (primarily modern dealers) who don't make a two-way market for what they sell, while giving a free pass to variety collectors who are happy to sell varieties for full price while only willing to acquire them by "cherrying" at low prices (like the modern dealer who "makes" a PR-70).
I don't think either should be bashed, but there *is* a lot more bellyaching about modern dealers paying "common grade" prices for cherrypicked gems than about variety folks who will only pay no-variety prices for varieties to sell at a large profit. Both are using knowledge to profit and I'm cool with that -- but it's another example of dealers being bashed where collectors engaging in similar practices aren't.
The most salient point here thus far. Thanks Bill.
I'm totally used to this double standard as it happens in many areas of numismatics.
At the risk of sounding callous, IMO anyone who gets caught up in a fad market, blindly opens their wallet and pays all the money betting on the come that it will continue to rise, knowing full well that history has shown that with very few exceptions it normally doesn't...is lawful prey for anyone who's smart enough to sell said material into said fad market while the selling's good. And, when that savvy investor goes to liquidate, my sympathy factor is fairly low when they find that the product of their avarice didn't bring the desired outcome. How are those guys doing with their investment who got in on the missing edge lettering Presidentials at $1000 when they first broke, or the high/low leaf quarters at heavy 3-digit numbers in the beginning? What about the "extra tree" POS that was so rare, until they started finding a hundred different varieties of it? 95 DDO Lincolns at $600 anyone? How about a skeleton finger, or a cracked skull at $150? And why should the guys who were smart enough to know that the best money is the quick money on fad coins now be obligated to buy these back now that they are mostly tanking, as most reasonable people knew they would?
It's like saying "HEY, I paid the Dodge dealer a $10,000 over invoice markup to be one of the first people to buy this Viper when it debuted. How come he doesn't want to pay me a premium to trade it back?"
(Edit to fix typo)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be.
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It's like saying "HEY, I paid the Dodge dealer a $10,000 over invoice markup to be one of the first people to buy this Viper when it debuted. How come he doesn't want to pay me a premium to trade it back?"
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You'd feel ripped off, though, if the Dodge dealer told you it would retain it's value and you shouldn't have any problem getting your money back out of it since it was so desirable, and you bought it based on that.
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It's like saying "HEY, I paid the Dodge dealer a $10,000 over invoice markup to be one of the first people to buy this Viper when it debuted. How come he doesn't want to pay me a premium to trade it back?"
>>
You'd feel ripped off, though, if the Dodge dealer told you it would retain it's value and you shouldn't have any problem getting your money back out of it since it was so desirable, and you bought it based on that. >>
I'd be bummed perhaps, but as an individual with common sense I wouldn't foolishly think that he had a crystal ball and could predict future events with 100% accuracy. I would consider it his good faith interpretation of the market at that time. Plus, no one's forcing me to buy into the hysteria.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
would not get my business.It is all a matter of mutual respect and trust
that must exist between a dealer and a client. It is called ,BUSINESS ETHICS!
By a fair price, I mean a buy price that is fair, based upon the then value of the
coin. It may be less or more then the purchase price, based upon market prices.
Camelot
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<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be. >>
I think he meant they deserve their fate to the extent there is no real 2 way market for such varieties, ....not that he isn't open minded to differing collecting habits that involve varieties.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be. >>
I think he meant they deserve their fate to the extent there is no real 2 way market for such varieties, ....not that he isn't open minded to differing collecting habits that involve varieties. >>
You are correct.
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<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be. >>
I think he meant they deserve their fate to the extent there is no real 2 way market for such varieties, ....not that he isn't open minded to differing collecting habits that involve varieties. >>
You are correct. >>
OK, I get the open minded part. But are you of the opinion that "collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate", as in getting creamed when it comes time to sell? Thanks.
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<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be. >>
I think he meant they deserve their fate to the extent there is no real 2 way market for such varieties, ....not that he isn't open minded to differing collecting habits that involve varieties. >>
You are correct. >>
OK, I get the open minded part. But are you of the opinion that "collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate", as in getting creamed when it comes time to sell? Thanks. >>
I don't think they 'deserve it' but that is usually what happens. Lack of a 2 way market on anything results in huge spreads......if any spread. Its the illiquidity factor.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
Wow. I know of countless collectors and dealers who have "never understood the appeal" of all sorts of types and/or grades and/or specific examples of various coins, not to mention other objects. I hope they are more open minded and compassionate over their differing views than you appear to be. >>
I think he meant they deserve their fate to the extent there is no real 2 way market for such varieties, ....not that he isn't open minded to differing collecting habits that involve varieties. >>
You are correct. >>
OK, I get the open minded part. But are you of the opinion that "collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate", as in getting creamed when it comes time to sell? Thanks. >>
I don't think they 'deserve it' but that is usually what happens. Lack of a 2 way market on anything results in huge spreads......if any spread. Its the illiquidity factor. >>
I agree. But to me, there is a big difference between feeling that "collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate" and thinking that "that is usually what happens. Lack of a 2 way market on anything results in huge spreads".
<< <i>A dealer that was not willing to buy back what they sell at a fair price
would not get my business.It is all a matter of mutual respect and trust
that must exist between a dealer and a client. It is called ,BUSINESS ETHICS! >>
I was with you until you got to the comment about ethics. As long as you don't make any claims or promises that would be broken by not buying a coin back, what's unethical about not wanting to buy back coins you have sold?
Just because you don't care for the way a dealer runs his business doesn't automatically make him unethical.
Hoard the keys.
Do dealers who sold pet rocks, Cabbage Patch dolls or "rare" Beanie Babies have some obligation to buy that stuff back at more than what it's now worth, merely because they sold it for large money when it was hot? (and let's face it, some of these miniscule die varieties are the numismatic equivalent of pet rocks.)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
You are getting close to starting a food fight
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
That wasn't the first time I encountered the dreaded "one-way market." At the Memphis Paper Money Show, circa early 1990's, I was attempting to sell my collection of numismatic BEP and ABNC souvenir cards. It looked to me like the dealers in that area always bought large quantities at the time of issue and never intended to buy another example. (I dropped out of that area so completely that I don't even know if a market for numismatic souvenir cards exists anymore!)
I still have about 10 numismatic telephone cards from the 1990's. There was a market that was strictly one-way and today is essentially dead.
<< <i>A dealer that was not willing to buy back what they sell at a fair price
would not get my business.It is all a matter of mutual respect and trust
that must exist between a dealer and a client. It is called ,BUSINESS ETHICS! >>
Most often greysheet bid and ask are two different things. I would never expect a dealer to pay over bid for a coin I had purchased from him at ask.
For that matter, I would never consider a dealer to buyback a coin I paid a "first come/first serve premium" for when the market dropped on that particular coin just like I would never consider "returning" a coin I cherrypicked as a specific variety which turned out to not be that variety.
It's called collecting and sometimes you take your knocks right along with the hits.
It sounds like you folks want dealers to operate at a 0% profit/0% loss margin which is really a bit unrealistic. Coin Dealers are in this business to make money and I for one can fully understand that concept.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>It sounds like you folks want dealers to operate at a 0% profit/0% loss margin which is really a bit unrealistic. Coin Dealers are in this business to make money and I for one can fully understand that concept. >>
Nope.
In my post I said that a dealer should be willing to pay at least $600 to $700 for an item he had sold to me for $1,000 if the market had not dropped. If he's not willing to buy the item at all, that shows the he was acting in bad faith when he sold it in the first place. And yes, I was a dealer was 14 years.
<< <i>If he's not willing to buy the item at all, that shows the he was acting in bad faith when he sold it in the first place. >>
I think it's unrealistic to expect that a dealer will buy back a coin unless he has actually agreed to do so. Maybe it's just me, but assuming that dealers will do something the way you want them to just becuase you think they should is a good way to end up disappointed.
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<< <i>It sounds like you folks want dealers to operate at a 0% profit/0% loss margin which is really a bit unrealistic. Coin Dealers are in this business to make money and I for one can fully understand that concept. >>
Nope.
In my post I said that a dealer should be willing to pay at least $600 to $700 for an item he had sold to me for $1,000 if the market had not dropped. If he's not willing to buy the item at all, that shows the he was acting in bad faith when he sold it in the first place. And yes, I was a dealer was 14 years. >>
Bill, haven't you ever taken a coin on consignment from a client and sold it to a collector, but it wasn't the type of coin you would have any interest in buying back in the future? Unless you made a promise to do so, I don't see any reason that you should be obligated to buy it back at any price at a later date. And if no promise was made, I don't see it as "bad faith". That said, I do think it's good business to offer a two way market, and make efforts to do so for coins I have sold to collectors.
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<< <i>It sounds like you folks want dealers to operate at a 0% profit/0% loss margin which is really a bit unrealistic. Coin Dealers are in this business to make money and I for one can fully understand that concept. >>
Nope.
In my post I said that a dealer should be willing to pay at least $600 to $700 for an item he had sold to me for $1,000 if the market had not dropped. If he's not willing to buy the item at all, that shows the he was acting in bad faith when he sold it in the first place. And yes, I was a dealer was 14 years. >>
I'm not referring to your post Bill but am referring to the general concept that folks feel a dealer must buy their products back. Sure it's a nice bonus if a dealer can afford to do it but I do not "expect" it from any dealer and it certainly does not qualify whether or not I would buy something from them.
The name is LEE!
I think it's unrealistic to expect that a dealer will buy back a coin unless he has actually agreed to do so. Maybe it's just me, but assuming that dealers will do something the way you want them to just becuase you think they should is a good way to end up disappointed. >>
The problem with this is that the coin biz has a certain amount of implied liquidity. The coin media has a lot of dealer-side buy "buzz" (advertisements trying to buy, attract consignments, etc.), not to mention when you go to a show a lot of dealers will ask if you have anything to sell. This doesn't mean that dealers are required to make two-way markets, but it does mean they need to realize that the industry widely communicates that practice, and that the typical newbie working w/them may be surprised to find out a particular dealer behaves differently.
Now, go try to sell the VAMS at a local coin shop or show, and you will meet resistance since the market had significantly changed or the buyers just don't want them. Expect this when you purchase any variety or coin that is not in the norm.
TRUTH
<< <i> I am a long term collector, and don't mind a dealer making a profit so they can stay in business, and generally I don't feel these are people I can tust to be one of my dealers over the long term. >>
You do know moderns are in this for the long term. They are as much a part of history as
a Cyzicus electrum stater or a fugio cent. They could even outlast the older coins. As you
say specialty dealers and those in thinner markets usually have higher markups than those
in the mainstream.
What more people should be asking themselves is why are there US coins that aren't in the
mainstream. This just seems astounding to me but I grew up in an era before moderns when
new coins were seen as the future rather than a hindrance on normal commerce.
We're coming up on half a century of clad. It's hard to even think of them as moderns.
<< <i>I suspect the mindset of sellers of such "one-way market" material can be summed up as follows:
If you are dumb enough to pay a premium for it I am smart enough to sell it to you ... but I am not dumb enough to buy it back from you, nor will I ever pay a premium to obtain it. If I can't buy it as a common date I'll pass. >>
A lot of dealers sell for reasonable prices and don't want to buy coins back. Dealers
often want to sell at retail prices. The markups in this industry just tend to be razor
thin and when they aren't the seller doesn't want to advertise the fact. Frequently
they are getting the coins cheap from people off the street or from scouring BU rolls
or mint sets.
Most dealers have a higher markup than their customers think. For the main part I
don't blame them for not buying coins back but it does depend on the specific coin
and apparent reasons.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've never understood the appeal of minor varieties. Collectors who allow themselves to get caught up in such material deserve their fate. >>
It all depends upon the series. If you are talking about modern coins that have tiny differences between the dies, paying big bucks for them because they are thought to be "rare" can be a huge risk. If you are talking about early half cents, large cents or half dollars, the markets for those minor varieties are very strong, and getting your money out, often with profit if you bought wisely, is very much a possibility. >>
Tiny differences might not get the old collector juices flowing but modern varieties
are often extremely scarce in high grade if they don't appear in mint sets. Most of
the moderns around are from mint sets and many varieties are simply unknown in
unc. It might not interest you or me to spend much time collecting them but it takes
only a few collectors to push the price of rare coins sky high.
<< <i>A dealer that was not willing to buy back what they sell at a fair price
would not get my business.It is all a matter of mutual respect and trust
that must exist between a dealer and a client. It is called ,BUSINESS ETHICS!
By a fair price, I mean a buy price that is fair, based upon the then value of the
coin. It may be less or more then the purchase price, based upon market prices. >>
Most dealers will buy back anything if they remember they sold it to you.
Try offering the same coin and say you bought it somewhere else.
<< <i>Bill, haven't you ever taken a coin on consignment from a client and sold it to a collector, but it wasn't the type of coin you would have any interest in buying back in the future? Unless you made a promise to do so, I don't see any reason that you should be obligated to buy it back at any price at a later date. And if no promise was made, I don't see it as "bad faith". That said, I do think it's good business to offer a two way market, and make efforts to do so for coins I have sold to collectors. >>
I made a practice of telling retail customers up front if I didn't like a coin. Since I seldom bought a coin I didn’t like. The main instances of when I sold coin I didn’t like was when I “made” the coin myself, and the grade came back too high. Or when I had to take something I didn’t like in a trade with a client. I would often tell some dealers I didn’t care for a coin I was offering too. Most of time, they knew as much as I did about the item. I almost always priced it in accordance with what I thought of it.
For example I once “made” an 1879-S quarter eagle. The coin was an AU, and it had a small lamination on the obverse, but it come back in an MS-61 holder. The coin was worth $400 (AU-50 money) in my opinion, but the Gray Sheet said it was worth $1,750 because of the holder. I won’t sell it to a retail customer. I did sell it to a dealer who knew perfectly well what it was because we discussed it for $1,000. He could go off a play games with it if he wanted; my conscience was clear.
If you buy something at a wholesale price the first time around and think that it’s good, why would you be opposed to buying it at wholesale the second time around provided it’s in the same condition? If you have faith in what you are selling you should be willing to put you money where your mouth is. And incidentally I always made money the second time around on those items I repurchased.
<< <i>The coin media has a lot of dealer-side buy "buzz" (advertisements trying to buy, attract consignments, etc.), not to mention when you go to a show a lot of dealers will ask if you have anything to sell. >>
Trouble here is that the fact a dealer is looking to buy doesn't necessarily mean that he's looking to buy what you might have to sell.
<< <i>This doesn't mean that dealers are required to make two-way markets, but it does mean they need to realize that the industry widely communicates that practice, and that the typical newbie working w/them may be surprised to find out a particular dealer behaves differently. >>
No doubt, some dealers are not particularly noob-friendly when they reveal their point of view regarding this side of the hobby (buy-back policies). Odds are, those guys aren't going to change anytime soon, though.
No, I don't have an answer for this problem aside from exposing people in general to the idea that, if you want something in particular, it's best to ask first in order to avoid disappointment later.
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If you buy something at a wholesale price the first time around and think that it’s good, why would you be opposed to buying it at wholesale the second time around provided it’s in the same condition? If you have faith in what you are selling you should be willing to put you money where your mouth is. And incidentally I always made money the second time around on those items I repurchased. >>
This is part of the problem; there is no such thing as wholesale pricing on
most moderns except for BU rolls, mint sets, and proof sets. I'm sure it's
coming but for now eBay rules. Auction histories and private sales are a-
bout the only basis for pricing.
Most such sellers take a significant cut so this is factored into the buy/ sell
spread as well.
<< <i> It might not interest you or me to spend much time collecting them but it takes only a few collectors to push the price of rare coins sky high. >>
One of things you learn as dealer is if you don't have a market presence in that area of the market (e.g. obscure modern die varieties, large cent die varieties, most anything like that.) you won’t get the prices. The best you can do is to known which dealers might be interested in the item on a wholesale basis. If there is a small group of collectors who are willing to push the price sky high, let ‘em. Unless your going to commit to make a place for yourself in that market, you are whistling past the financial graveyard if you dabble in it.
This is a lesson that collectors should learn too. All dealers are not the same. Some buy in certain areas of the market but avoid others. Match what you are selling with your prospective buyer.
<< <i>This is part of the problem; there is no such thing as wholesale pricing on except for BU rolls, mint sets, and proof sets. >>
And this is one of the reasons why I never bought and sold modern coins as a dealer. I even avoided Proof sets and mint sets because that part of the market is often traded a heavy discounts below the published prices. I got burned a couple of times on modern coins when I was kid collector, and it taught me a lesson. Unless I wanted to own it forever, I stayed away from most modern issues. What did I want own forever? Proof sets by year, modern commemoratives in the original packages, and a BU set of Roosevlet dimes in an old Seitz holder.
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<< <i>It sounds like you folks want dealers to operate at a 0% profit/0% loss margin which is really a bit unrealistic. Coin Dealers are in this business to make money and I for one can fully understand that concept. >>
Nope.
In my post I said that a dealer should be willing to pay at least $600 to $700 for an item he had sold to me for $1,000 if the market had not dropped. If he's not willing to buy the item at all, that shows the he was acting in bad faith when he sold it in the first place. And yes, I was a dealer was 14 years. >>
What if the guy now has 3 of them in stock he currently can't sell? Is he still the bad guy for passing on making an offer for your piece? That doesn't mean he acted in "bad faith" when selling to you by any stretch of the imagination. Note I put bad faith in quotes, because it's a term commonly misused here-most use "he acted in bad faith" as a synonym for "I didn't get my way, thus he's a crook". Selling someone something does not presuppose that the seller is obligated to repurchase it at the buyer's whim and/or using the buyer's price parameters. In other words, a buyer doesn't dictate a seller's margins, nor does he dictate his buying/selling policies; if he does, the dealer won't stay in business long. A dealer of 14 years should certainly realize that.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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<< <i>Bill, haven't you ever taken a coin on consignment from a client and sold it to a collector, but it wasn't the type of coin you would have any interest in buying back in the future? Unless you made a promise to do so, I don't see any reason that you should be obligated to buy it back at any price at a later date. And if no promise was made, I don't see it as "bad faith". That said, I do think it's good business to offer a two way market, and make efforts to do so for coins I have sold to collectors. >>
I made a practice of telling retail customers up front if I didn't like a coin. Since I seldom bought a coin I didn’t like. The main instances of when I sold coin I didn’t like was when I “made” the coin myself, and the grade came back too high. Or when I had to take something I didn’t like in a trade with a client. I would often tell some dealers I didn’t care for a coin I was offering too. Most of time, they knew as much as I did about the item. I almost always priced it in accordance with what I thought of it.
For example I once “made” an 1879-S quarter eagle. The coin was an AU, and it had a small lamination on the obverse, but it come back in an MS-61 holder. The coin was worth $400 (AU-50 money) in my opinion, but the Gray Sheet said it was worth $1,750 because of the holder. I won’t sell it to a retail customer. I did sell it to a dealer who knew perfectly well what it was because we discussed it for $1,000. He could go off a play games with it if he wanted; my conscience was clear.
If you buy something at a wholesale price the first time around and think that it’s good, why would you be opposed to buying it at wholesale the second time around provided it’s in the same condition? If you have faith in what you are selling you should be willing to put you money where your mouth is. And incidentally I always made money the second time around on those items I repurchased. >>
I wasn't talking/asking about offering a coin you didn't like, but rather, one which was a different type and/or grade than you typically handled/dealt in. And the quality could be all there.
For example, I don't usually deal in pattern coinage, but I have sold a few examples for clients, at prices which I and the buyers thought to be fair. If the coins were later offered to me, I probably wouldn't buy them - or if so, it would be at very conservative levels - even if they were very nice for what they are. That doesn't make me guilty of "bad faith".
<< <i>For example, I don't usually deal in pattern coinage, but I have sold a few examples for clients, at prices which I and the buyers thought to be fair. If the coins were later offered to me, I probably wouldn't buy them - or if so, it would be at very conservative levels - even if they were very nice for what they are. That doesn't make me guilty of "bad faith". >>
Would you at least take them on consignment?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>For example, I don't usually deal in pattern coinage, but I have sold a few examples for clients, at prices which I and the buyers thought to be fair. If the coins were later offered to me, I probably wouldn't buy them - or if so, it would be at very conservative levels - even if they were very nice for what they are. That doesn't make me guilty of "bad faith". >>
Would you at least take them on consignment? >>
Absolutely.
coin they sold me and have offered strong buy back prices. While I do not deny the
right of any dealer to conduct business as they please, I will only do business with
dealers that I feel meet my definition of ethical and moral in the conduct of their
business activity.
To compare valuable coins to pet rocks is rather ridiculous if not silly. If a dealer sells
coins that are true to the grade and are are of real quality, they should be thrilled to buy back
the coin at a fair price so that they can sell it again. Refusal to buy back what they sold,
usually means that the coin or coins ,were over graded, overpriced of fell into the dreaded
"D" list of coins.
ETHICS to me, means that a dealer will stand behind every product they sell.If I buy a toaster
and it is defective, I expect the dealer to give me a new toaster. If a dealer sells me what is
stated to be a quality coin, I expect that dealer to be prepared to buy it back at a fair price.FAILURE
TO DO SO ,MEANS THAT THE DEALER FEELS THAT THEIR IS SOMETHING DEFECTIVE ABOUT THE QUALITY
COIN THEY SOLD ME.DEFECTIVE IN THE SENSE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO OFFWER ME 10 CENTS ON
THE DOLLAR THAT I PAID FOR THE COIN OR IT IS A COIN THAT IS SHABBY FOR THE GRADE, SLABBED OR RAW.
Camelot