Melting sterling...
CarlWohlforth
Posts: 11,074 ✭
I have some sterling silverware I can't sell for below melt. So I'm thinking I'll build a big hot fire in the brick BBQ out back and make bars of silver. So after I melt the silverware in an iron pot does the non silver part float or sink?
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So how did you make your .999 bars?
My guys use them in the field over propane to solder pipes. Much faster.
Once melted, the copper (7 1/2%) does not separate from the alloy. Even when adding flux it onlly removes a small amount of copper that has oxidized durinng the melt.
So if you could melt your flatware which is marked and identified into an unidentified lump of metal, what are you going to do with it? Most bullion dealers will turn it down. You are then faced with finding a refinery where they could charge $25-$50 for an assay.
Have you considered an antique or pawn shop or even Midwest Refineries?
Got quoins?
<< <i> ......
So how did you make your .999 bars? >>
And how pray tell did you determine that you effected such a complete, total, and absolute separation that you obtained .999 anything? This is exciting news and will re-write the history of metallurgy when once your process is revealed. Have you patented it yet? What were the percentage losses? What fluxes did you use? Did you assay the slag as well as the '.999' bullion? Was the copper produced equivalent to cathode grade? Did the neighbors complain about any toxic fumes or resultant hazardous waste? How did you dispose of that? Would Al Gore have approved of your method? The EPA?
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My point of course being that you ain't even kidding yourself never mind the rest of us. You had some fun on a very small scale and melted some coins of known composition. It looks like two or more metals sort of separated. They are almost certainly contaminated by each other. SIlver in the copper, Cu in the Ag. How much of each is unknown. Plus it's likely there are other acquired contaminates. Like various oxides if you didn't use any fluxes. Pieces of the crucible that you performed this in or the mould you poured it out into. Glops of slag are sometimes physically entrained within the ingot. None of this implies .999 or even the 0.900 you started with. But at least as coins anybody could readily determine their silver content. What you have is not something that is going to command much respect in the marketplace. It still has most of its original value ( actually there will have been silver loss. It's unavoidable) but nobody may readily determine what that value is so a buyer would have to discount it even more. Probably a lot more.
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In the form of hallmarked sterling flatware, one may have a certain level of trust in the silver content of the material. After it becomes a blob of shiny god-knows-what, it will have to be refined a second time and properly. Just accept that you're going to receive about 80% of the silver value and learn not to get involved in this stuff again. The refinery will pay for 90% of the silver value but they will also lose about 10% so you'll get 80'ish. Melting it will only make a bad situation worse. I've got about 100 ounces (Ag content) myself and dearly wish it were otherwise. So I'm using mine to eat with until the price of silver increases to the point that I won't totally lose my fanny when I finally sell it. And if silver drops substantially, I guess I'll just have to keep eating. It does have a more pleasing heft than stainless.
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<< <i>
<< <i> ......
So how did you make your .999 bars? >>
And how pray tell did you determine that you effected such a complete, total, and absolute separation that you obtained .999 anything? This is exciting news and will re-write the history of metallurgy when once your process is revealed. Have you patented it yet? What were the percentage losses? What fluxes did you use? Did you assay the slag as well as the '.999' bullion? Was the copper produced equivalent to cathode grade? Did the neighbors complain about any toxic fumes or resultant hazardous waste? How did you dispose of that? Would Al Gore have approved of your method? The EPA?
----
My point of course being that you ain't even kidding yourself never mind the rest of us. You had some fun on a very small scale and melted some coins of known composition. It looks like two or more metals sort of separated. They are almost certainly contaminated by each other. SIlver in the copper, Cu in the Ag. How much of each is unknown. Plus it's likely there are other acquired contaminates. Like various oxides if you didn't use any fluxes. Pieces of the crucible that you performed this in or the mould you poured it out into. Glops of slag are sometimes physically entrained within the ingot. None of this implies .999 or even the 0.900 you started with. But at least as coins anybody could readily determine their silver content. What you have is not something that is going to command much respect in the marketplace. It still has most of its original value ( actually there will have been silver loss. It's unavoidable) but nobody may readily determine what that value is so a buyer would have to discount it even more. Probably a lot more.
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In the form of hallmarked sterling flatware, one may have a certain level of trust in the silver content of the material. After it becomes a blob of shiny god-knows-what, it will have to be refined a second time and properly. Just accept that you're going to receive about 80% of the silver value and learn not to get involved in this stuff again. The refinery will pay for 90% of the silver value but they will also lose about 10% so you'll get 80'ish. Melting it will only make a bad situation worse. I've got about 100 ounces (Ag content) myself and dearly wish it were otherwise. So I'm using mine to eat with until the price of silver increases to the point that I won't totally lose my fanny when I finally sell it. And if silver drops substantially, I guess I'll just have to keep eating. It does have a more pleasing heft than stainless. >>
Before you shoot off, consider all the possibilities. As BBN states, he used refined .999 silver shot to make his own bars.
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<< <i>I tried to melt 90% junk silver in my kiln during the period I was making my .999 silver bars just as an experiment to see how it worked out. The silver and copper stratify during melting. When poured, the silver layer sinks to the bottom of the mold, and the copper floats to the top. The small bar looked almost like a "sandwich" coin without the 2nd layer of white metal. It was a total waste of about $1.35 face of 90%. Your results may vary, but just be aware you need a temp in excess of 1700 f. Not easily attained in a backyard BBQ set-up. >>
"just as an experiment" he said.
Didn't say he was using the results to make .999 bars.
Now, personally, I would be surprised if sterling were to separate upon simple melting, as jewelers melt down Franklin Mint medals to cast into sterling jewelry all the time without having to remix the elements, so I don't know what it was he saw.
TD
<< <i>Ah, well, just a thought. A friend received a 12 place setting as a gift many years ago and never found much of a use for it. I'm trying to help him maximize his take. I figure the set has 90 ounces of silver in it. Sounds like 80% of melt as is probably is what we should expect. >>
Thats probably about right. I think in the "old days", the formula used to go something like this. .925 x spot x .925. Might even have used this for foreign coins of lesser silver content.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Ah, well, just a thought. A friend received a 12 place setting as a gift many years ago and never found much of a use for it. I'm trying to help him maximize his take. I figure the set has 90 ounces of silver in it. Sounds like 80% of melt as is probably is what we should expect. >>
Just remember that the knives are mostly steel, with just a decorative shell handle.
TD
Cap, I cannot find the .900 silver bar that I made from coin silver unfortunately, but the 2 metals DID seperate. The bottom of the bar is a solid white, and the top of the bar is a rusty brown. When viewd from the side, you can clearly see the stratification of the metal. Although my brain tells me it should look like a 90/10 ratio, it looked alot closer to 65/35 or so with white being the thicker of the 2 distinctly colored layers. Of course, the bar was just 1/4 inch thick.