Hiring a lawyer in a case like this is a decision best made after giving careful consideration to a lot of factors.
Bottom line thing is that lawyers are expensive and in many cases there simply is no way to predict whether you will win your lawsuit and thereafter collect. If not, you have thrown good money after bad.
Hiring a lawyer to write and send a demand letter to the bad guys may result in a refund and is not excessively expensive. However, telemarketers are usually not imtimidated by attorney letters.
In California you can sue in small claims court for up to $7,500.00. If the OP spent $11K on coins worth $5K, the $6K difference is within the small claims court jurisdiction. So if the OP in in California, he can sue in samll claims court. He would have to decide exactly what legal claims he would sue upon. If he is 65 or older, financial elder abuse is a possible claim. Fraud could be another claim. Common count, breach of contract, unjust enrichment and other possible claims may be a fit.
The thing about small claims court that is appealing is that no lawyers are involved at the trial level (they can get involved in a small claims appeal however). Further, the formal rules of procedural and substantive law, though in theory applicable in small claims cases, many times are not applied. Many times cases are resolved on the basis of who is sympathetic in the eyes of the small claims judge.
If the template of the OP's case is good [evil telemarketer preying on an elderly consumer who is vulnerable and unsophisticated, selling the consumer a pig in a poke (present to the court the junky Saint sold as an MS65 and at the same time present to the court a PCGS graded MS65 Saint of the same date for comparison purposes)], he may have a WINNA.
However, even if he wins and obtains a judgment, absent payment of same by the telemarketer, the OP would have to pursue judgment enforcement. That could be very difficult, particularly of the telemarketer goes out of business or changes names and sets up shop elsewhere.
Even if the OP is not successful in recovering some or all of his losses, he will hopefully be more careful next time (if there is a next time) that he decides to purchase coins.
Agreed that there are too many unanswered questions on this thread. OP, we need more information!
(Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post answers on the message board). Need to know exactly what the coins are, and the prices paid, the data of purchase, the company who sold you the coins. Also, details about any contact you have had with the company that sold you the coins recently.
It makes no sense that if you asked for specific PCGS and NGC graded coins, and then didn't get them, you should be on the horn with the company until you do get what you ordered.
I am grateful for your generous time and concern with all these communications! I don't know...time has passed some and my anger and indignation also. I lost 2k on *&$# scammers it's true. With gold going up and the european economy going down the drain and possibly ours too (double dip, anyone, lol?), and my earning power being pretty much zip these days, well I'm moving on these days. Nothing I can do with my current resources to get back at these b$#%^s. It's not worth the effort, nor damage to my health & well-being, frankly. I kinda agree that this thread is done!
Being an ordained minister, however, I know God will take care of things. In the end - there is always perfect justice. Now I'm not boasting, just an observation on my part...I have many times before been mistreated by certain organizations and seen them shortly thereafter wiped off the face of the Earth and/or management completely replaced. Might be coincidence, and maybe not. In any case I have quite enjoyed the spectacles of utter obliteration, so I am looking forward to hearing on the news about this one. sooner or later.
Many thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions, inquiries, etc. I think I'll stick with bullion from now on. Actually - I want to buy some 'junk silver'. Any suggestions on the hows and where's? I know the coins should be pre-1965 and the dates should be clearly visible. I'm in northern california and I don't trust online purchasing anymore - at least for coins. Maybe coin shows? Any good ones coming up in California or Nevada this summer - I'd like to go.
<< <i> Being an ordained minister, however, I know God will take care of things. >>
How about performing an exorcism on your avatar? It's very distracting.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Personally, I would keep studying, read and participate in the PM section of this forum, and then slowly start buying. Buying without doing much studying is a bad idea, as your story proves.
Good luck!
<< <i>The whole concept of buying PCGS/NGC coins is so that novice and expert alike can purchase worry free . The authenticity and grade are guaranteed . You need only return the coins to the appropriate TPG and if over graded , you will be compensated . >>
I agree, but since there are so many overpriced coins in TPG slabs that isn't always the perfect solution. The amount of new collectors not "buying the book before the coin" is surprising IMO.
I think ( i have been wrong many a time in my life) that in Texas if i sue a company in small claims court i can represent myself but the company must be represented by a lawyer. ( meaning the president or other employee of the company can not go to small claims court to handle the issue) They must hire an attorney and if that is the case where you are that may tip it into your favor as hiring a lawyer will quickly drain anyones pocket.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Loose in small claims court and yo pay the other guys attorneys fees + your own!
You got burned and it's now almost 1 year later and you want a refund? I don't think any court in the land would grant you that.
PCGS coins trade sight unseen, and the local dealers telling you the coin is worth $1500 are just as bad as the telemarketers. I thought slabs were supposed to take the subjectivity out of coins like this.
I'll gladly pay you $1800 for the Saint spots included.
My advice...move on, change your avitar and find a coin dealer that is trustworthy
<< <i>The O.P it seems has elected to ignore many of the questions many have asked in order to help ;
in fact the O.P has left it up to God almighty to resolve the problem ,
so I think I'm wasting my time here on this thread with any more responses >>
Agreed, so many questions left unanswered; I guess the OP really doesn't want help in sorting it out. Also, I thought the amount of money paid vs. value was greater. Paying $11k vs. $9k is probably a more reasonable mark-up of those marketing companies.
1-2. MS65 St Gaudens with black oxidation blotches. Told that the $3,033 price was MARKET PRICE, it's only worth $1,800 on a good day according to the DEALER BULLETIN you all get but don't show us, the CONSUMER LAYPERSON, like me. LEAR sold me x2 such coins, 1 with black blotches, the other one clean, just overpriced. 3. MS62 St Gaudens received when I said I did not want any St Gaudens under a MS65 grade. 4-7. MS62 $5 Liberty has black oxidation blotches on it. Paid over $600 for this one and x3 other MS62 $5 Liberty. Market price is around $480 on a good day for a REAL MS62 with NO black blotches. 8. MS61 $5 Liberty received when I indicated I didnt want any coins under MS62.
If the telemarketer told me the mark up was anything over published market prices - I would have refused the offer. The company refuses to remedy the situation in any way. They recorded the phone transaction but when I demanded they send a copy of the recording, the Customer Service manager sent me a CD of a completely different person's transaction, not mine. What does this mean? Does the actual recording incriminate themselves, so they didnt send it?
~~~~~~~~~~
GOLDLINE UNDER INVESTIGATION BY L.A. DISTRICT ATTORNEY - IS IT TIME FOR THE DEPT OF JUSTICE IN CA TO INVESTIGATE LEAR CAPITOL, OR SHOULD I JUST DESTROY THEM WITH A CLASS-ACTION LAW-SUIT?
Derryb: this is EXACTLY what happened to me "There are two main types of complaints we're seeing. One is that customers say that they were lied to and misled in entering into their purchases of gold coins. And the other group is saying that they received something different from what they had ordered."
I AM speaking with an attorney - I just emailed him this quote and link as well - thank you for your help!! He suggested I file a complaint and seek restitution with the California Dept of Justice. I could do that. I might get some money back. It doesn't punish or stop LEAR CAPITOL from continuing to defraud lay consumers every day. That doesn't sit well with me.
I also heard on late nite radio news something about another company in Santa Monica that had many complaints against it and is also in trouble with the law.
OK - SO THIS IS THE VILLIAN ~ the telemarketer company that is giving me and I suspect so many hundreds or even thousands of other consumers grief, is LEAR CAPITOL.
~~~~~~
I have been feeling very depressed about all this, I have few resources to mount a justly attack - that's why I have not been chatty here. Besides, my puter is broken and I'm not a chatty person to begin with, lol. I know I was defrauded in a most unscrupulous and arrogant way by LEAR, and I have confidence in divine justice. It seems like the universe is now closing ranks on this scam industry, GOLDLINE, some Santa Monica based company, and probably others are in the process of going down, and LEAR CAPITOL should be one of them.
Some of you have indicated you want this or that like images of the coins produced and posted - I dont have a camera, nor the money for all this. Please you guys - my best bet is to get the right attorney and shoot for a class action suit. The attorney group can spend the money on the research to build the case - I can't do it alone, there are no resources for it.
In fact, I already tried to get written valuation from 2 of your colleagues in my local area, and they declined out of fear. They were on the ANA Dealers Directory, I am sure most of you all are too. I can't find anyone local on the ANA Directory list to take the pics and give me an independant written valuation.
Should I be passive and just pray for justice or should I do something more...earthbound? Should I be concerned just about myself, or social justice? Am I alone with this, or is this a call-to-arms to other victims and champions of numismatic virtue to clean up the grounds you all nest in? Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace?
<< <i>Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace? >>
OP - I know you are upset about your coin purchases, but before you make a comment like this - there were several people on these boards (posting earlier in this thread) that were trying to help you a few weeks ago - but we didn't get any additional information from you until now.
lol, ok. I will check in with you buddies here every couple of days. I just don't want to be doing this project alone, esp. if the attorneys reckon a class action suit sounds good. If you have good ideas and would like to help when the time is right, it makes sense to regroup with a private email list or even facebook?
"Being an ordained minister, however, I know God will take care of things. In the end - there is always perfect justice. Now I'm not boasting, just an observation on my part...I have many times before been mistreated by certain organizations and seen them shortly thereafter wiped off the face of the Earth..."
How ...brotherly. Love thy enem...oh the heck with it. It seems to me you believed the telemarketer. Why? I just can't fathom spending thousands while in the dark. What did you expect? Or is that too ridiculous to type out? I just don't think believing blindly in the telemarketers is...logical. What you lost is a good chunk to me. Gee, ya might smite me too now...ohh. I hope you get some sort of relief but I bet you learned a lesson..maybe. I am of the opinion you did this to yourself - sorry.
you seem to be a gold investor - that probhably has been scammed in the past as LEAR CAPITAL but your name/phone number from another similar operation
or you called their number off of their enticing advertisement
do you feel fraud was committed? How long has it been since you purchased?
or was it multiple purchases over a period of months/years?
the state attorney general where you live and where they are located should be sent a letter detailing precisely how you were scammed
the postal service shoud be sent a copy as well - they broke the 30-day delivery rule as they did not deliver whaqt you asked for
your credit card company should be sent a copy as well as you are going to initiate a chargeback
and LEAR CAPITAL should be sent a copy as well, telling them all parties you are complaining to, and ask if they wish to reconsider returns on the items you did not ask for
How can tiy buy anything if you have no concept of market value for the item you are purchasing? unless it is such small change for you that you do not care?
Hiring a lawyer is probably throwing away good money after bad unless you can figure out how to get their mailing list of purchasers (you may want to try a mailing list company - to enquire if LEAR CAPITAL has one available for rent)
At the end of the day, as many of said before, it is all going to depend on the terms of the sale or contract you signed. Also, if they are PCGS graded coins, you will be hard pressed to prove in court these are undergraded. If you were charged a 28% premium over retail, it is unlikely that would be found to be excessive (as many retail stores will have variance like this -- sometimes even between stores in the same chain).
<< <i>the state attorney general where you live and where they are located should be sent a letter detailing precisely how you were scammed
the postal service shoud be sent a copy as well - they broke the 30-day delivery rule as they did not deliver whaqt you asked for
your credit card company should be sent a copy as well as you are going to initiate a chargeback
and LEAR CAPITAL should be sent a copy as well, telling them all parties you are complaining to, and ask if they wish to reconsider returns on the items you did not ask for >>
This advice is spot on: State Attorney General (most states have an online section where you can report fraud), I hadn't thought of the postal inspector (that's a good one), Credit Card (yes they can go back more than 60 days if it is fraud) and another avenue is the Federal Trade Commission (you can fill out a complaint from the website). An attorney might scare them into giving you your money back with a letter writing campaign (which will cost you $1-2k easy), but I think the costs outweigh the benefit; again it really depends what the terms/contract stated.
I also know this is going to sound flippant, but I have easily sunk over $2k on my own coin "education" in the past. For me, it was the weird third-party grading compaines that rampaged eBay a few years back; and, I also played and lost a lot at the crackout game.
According to Lear's Contract (PDF), which I presume you signed, typical (but variable) spreads on such coins are 29%. While that is more than I would tolerate as an investor, their disclosure and performance appears to be more or less in the ballpark. So where's the fraud?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Am I alone with this, or is this a call-to-arms to other victims and champions of numismatic virtue to clean up the grounds you all nest in? Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace? >>
This statement angers me. Explain to me why I am responsible for cleaning up your mess? Do you take accountability for making an uninformed investment decision? Have you reaped any knowledge from the experience that will inform your future actions?
I'm not a dealer, but most collectors that post here have all made mistakes that cost them money. The wise learn from their mistakes and profit from the experience.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace?
I'm not a dealer either, but here's what I did. I decided to slow down and to stop making quick decisions and to make sure that I was paying market pricing on both the buy, and the sell.
Mr. Eureka IS a dealer, and in this instance I wholeheartedly agree with his observations:
According to Lear's Contract (PDF), which I presume you signed, typical (but variable) spreads on such coins are 29%. While that is more than I would tolerate as an investor, their disclosure and performance appears to be more or less in the ballpark. So where's the fraud?
Don't people even read the contracts that they get themselves into? Why do they always think that gold is going to be their financial salvation - without knowing what the heck they need to know about buying gold? Why do people make all these assumptions and ignore the education process? Is Lear's advertising all that compelling? I think it isn't.
There is a Precious Metals Forum here, and your investment seems to be more suited to that forum, unless you intend to be a collector of the graded gold coins that you've bought, but since you've expressed an interest in 90% silver, your questions regarding bullion purchases will be fielded to your satisfaction over there, I am sure.
Welcome to the forum!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Welcome to the Forum. First off...your blinking icon made it difficult to read your message. But, from what I gather, you bought overpriced coins.
Since its not likely a return is possible, and legal recourse improbable...your only way out is the time tested "greater fool" system.
Put the coins up on ebay ASAP with minimally acceptable photos, write a flowery description, and sell with NO RETURNS. Price them at what you have in them plus any ebay fees. Use a Buy It Now and keep relisting until they are sold. SOMEONE WILL BUY THEM FOR WHAT YOU PAID. Make sure in additon to US ebay you list in Japan, the UK and anywhere else that fools typically live.
You are not alone. Nearly everyone here has a story to tell (or a story to keep to themselves) of the bashing they have taken in coins at one point or another.
"Welcome to the Forum. First off...your blinking icon made it difficult to read your message. But, from what I gather, you bought overpriced coins.
Since its not likely a return is possible, and legal recourse improbable...your only way out is the time tested "greater fool" system.
Put the coins up on ebay ASAP with minimally acceptable photos, write a flowery description, and sell with NO RETURNS. Price them at what you have in them plus any ebay fees. Use a Buy It Now and keep relisting until they are sold. SOMEONE WILL BUY THEM FOR WHAT YOU PAID. Make sure in additon to US ebay you list in Japan, the UK and anywhere else that fools typically live.
You are not alone. Nearly everyone here has a story to tell (or a story to keep to themselves) of the bashing they have taken in coins at one point or another." - Ambro51
I could not give this advice. What would this say about "us" as collectors and people?
Comments
Bottom line thing is that lawyers are expensive and in many cases there simply is no way to predict whether you will win your lawsuit and thereafter collect. If not, you have thrown good money after bad.
Hiring a lawyer to write and send a demand letter to the bad guys may result in a refund and is not excessively expensive. However, telemarketers are usually not imtimidated by attorney letters.
In California you can sue in small claims court for up to $7,500.00. If the OP spent $11K on coins worth $5K, the $6K difference is within the small claims court jurisdiction. So if the OP in in California, he can sue in samll claims court. He would have to decide exactly what legal claims he would sue upon. If he is 65 or older, financial elder abuse is a possible claim. Fraud could be another claim. Common count, breach of contract, unjust enrichment and other possible claims may be a fit.
The thing about small claims court that is appealing is that no lawyers are involved at the trial level (they can get involved in a small claims appeal however). Further, the formal rules of procedural and substantive law, though in theory applicable in small claims cases, many times are not applied. Many times cases are resolved on the basis of who is sympathetic in the eyes of the small claims judge.
If the template of the OP's case is good [evil telemarketer preying on an elderly consumer who is vulnerable and unsophisticated, selling the consumer a pig in a poke (present to the court the junky Saint sold as an MS65 and at the same time present to the court a PCGS graded MS65 Saint of the same date for comparison purposes)], he may have a WINNA.
However, even if he wins and obtains a judgment, absent payment of same by the telemarketer, the OP would have to pursue judgment enforcement. That could be very difficult, particularly of the telemarketer goes out of business or changes names and sets up shop elsewhere.
Even if the OP is not successful in recovering some or all of his losses, he will hopefully be more careful next time (if there is a next time) that he decides to purchase coins.
(Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post answers on the message board). Need to know exactly what the coins are, and the prices paid, the data of purchase, the company who sold you the coins. Also, details about any contact you have had with the company that sold you the coins recently.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
roadrunner
I am grateful for your generous time and concern with all these communications! I don't know...time has passed some and my anger and indignation also. I lost 2k on *&$# scammers it's true. With gold going up and the european economy going down the drain and possibly ours too (double dip, anyone, lol?), and my earning power being pretty much zip these days, well I'm moving on these days. Nothing I can do with my current resources to get back at these b$#%^s. It's not worth the effort, nor damage to my health & well-being, frankly. I kinda agree that this thread is done!
Being an ordained minister, however, I know God will take care of things. In the end - there is always perfect justice. Now I'm not boasting, just an observation on my part...I have many times before been mistreated by certain organizations and seen them shortly thereafter wiped off the face of the Earth and/or management completely replaced. Might be coincidence, and maybe not. In any case I have quite enjoyed the spectacles of utter obliteration, so I am looking forward to hearing on the news about this one. sooner or later.
Many thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions, inquiries, etc. I think I'll stick with bullion from now on. Actually - I want to buy some 'junk silver'. Any suggestions on the hows and where's? I know the coins should be pre-1965 and the dates should be clearly visible. I'm in northern california and I don't trust online purchasing anymore - at least for coins. Maybe coin shows? Any good ones coming up in California or Nevada this summer - I'd like to go.
Cheers,
BurntNovice
<< <i> Being an ordained minister, however, I know God will take care of things. >>
How about performing an exorcism on your avatar? It's very distracting.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Any suggestions on the hows and where's? >>
Personally, I would keep studying, read and participate in the PM section of this forum, and then slowly start buying. Buying without doing much studying is a bad idea, as your story proves.
Good luck!
<< <i>The whole concept of buying PCGS/NGC coins is so that novice and expert alike can purchase worry free . The authenticity and grade are guaranteed . You need only return the coins to the appropriate TPG and if over graded , you will be compensated . >>
I agree, but since there are so many overpriced coins in TPG slabs that isn't always the perfect solution. The amount of new collectors not "buying the book before the coin" is surprising IMO.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
You got burned and it's now almost 1 year later and you want a refund? I don't think any court in the land would grant you that.
PCGS coins trade sight unseen, and the local dealers telling you the coin is worth $1500 are just as bad as the telemarketers. I thought slabs were supposed to take the subjectivity out of coins like this.
I'll gladly pay you $1800 for the Saint spots included.
My advice...move on, change your avitar and find a coin dealer that is trustworthy
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
in fact the O.P has left it up to God almighty to resolve the problem ,
so I think I'm wasting my time here on this thread with any more responses
<< <i>The O.P it seems has elected to ignore many of the questions many have asked in order to help ;
in fact the O.P has left it up to God almighty to resolve the problem ,
so I think I'm wasting my time here on this thread with any more responses >>
Agreed, so many questions left unanswered; I guess the OP really doesn't want help in sorting it out. Also, I thought the amount of money paid vs. value was greater. Paying $11k vs. $9k is probably a more reasonable mark-up of those marketing companies.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Goldline now under investigation for fraud
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
1-2. MS65 St Gaudens with black oxidation blotches. Told that the $3,033 price was MARKET PRICE, it's only worth $1,800 on a good day according to the DEALER BULLETIN you all get but don't show us, the CONSUMER LAYPERSON, like me. LEAR sold me x2 such coins, 1 with black blotches, the other one clean, just overpriced.
3. MS62 St Gaudens received when I said I did not want any St Gaudens under a MS65 grade.
4-7. MS62 $5 Liberty has black oxidation blotches on it. Paid over $600 for this one and x3 other MS62 $5 Liberty. Market price is around $480 on a good day for a REAL MS62 with NO black blotches.
8. MS61 $5 Liberty received when I indicated I didnt want any coins under MS62.
If the telemarketer told me the mark up was anything over published market prices - I would have refused the offer. The company refuses to remedy the situation in any way. They recorded the phone transaction but when I demanded they send a copy of the recording, the Customer Service manager sent me a CD of a completely different person's transaction, not mine. What does this mean? Does the actual recording incriminate themselves, so they didnt send it?
~~~~~~~~~~
GOLDLINE UNDER INVESTIGATION BY L.A. DISTRICT ATTORNEY - IS IT TIME FOR THE DEPT OF JUSTICE IN CA TO INVESTIGATE LEAR CAPITOL, OR SHOULD I JUST DESTROY THEM WITH A CLASS-ACTION LAW-SUIT?
Derryb: this is EXACTLY what happened to me "There are two main types of complaints we're seeing. One is that customers say that they were lied to and misled in entering into their purchases of gold coins. And the other group is saying that they received something different from what they had ordered."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/20/glenn-becks-sponsor-goldl_n_652766.html
I AM speaking with an attorney - I just emailed him this quote and link as well - thank you for your help!! He suggested I file a complaint and seek restitution with the California Dept of Justice. I could do that. I might get some money back. It doesn't punish or stop LEAR CAPITOL from continuing to defraud lay consumers every day. That doesn't sit well with me.
I also heard on late nite radio news something about another company in Santa Monica that had many complaints against it and is also in trouble with the law.
OK - SO THIS IS THE VILLIAN ~ the telemarketer company that is giving me and I suspect so many hundreds or even thousands of other consumers grief, is LEAR CAPITOL.
~~~~~~
I have been feeling very depressed about all this, I have few resources to mount a justly attack - that's why I have not been chatty here. Besides, my puter is broken and I'm not a chatty person to begin with, lol. I know I was defrauded in a most unscrupulous and arrogant way by LEAR, and I have confidence in divine justice. It seems like the universe is now closing ranks on this scam industry, GOLDLINE, some Santa Monica based company, and probably others are in the process of going down, and LEAR CAPITOL should be one of them.
Some of you have indicated you want this or that like images of the coins produced and posted - I dont have a camera, nor the money for all this. Please you guys - my best bet is to get the right attorney and shoot for a class action suit. The attorney group can spend the money on the research to build the case - I can't do it alone, there are no resources for it.
In fact, I already tried to get written valuation from 2 of your colleagues in my local area, and they declined out of fear. They were on the ANA Dealers Directory, I am sure most of you all are too. I can't find anyone local on the ANA Directory list to take the pics and give me an independant written valuation.
Should I be passive and just pray for justice or should I do something more...earthbound? Should I be concerned just about myself, or social justice? Am I alone with this, or is this a call-to-arms to other victims and champions of numismatic virtue to clean up the grounds you all nest in? Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace?
Hmm.
What exactly would you like us to do?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace?
>>
OP - I know you are upset about your coin purchases, but before you make a comment like this - there were several people on these boards (posting earlier in this thread) that were trying to help you a few weeks ago - but we didn't get any additional information from you until now.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
cheers,
Goldbully I am going to send you the bill for my psychiatric treatment.Your last post made my brain bleed.
<< <i>Goldbully I am going to send you the bill for my psychiatric treatment.Your last post made my brain bleed.
Sure am glad I'm not epileptic!
How ...brotherly. Love thy enem...oh the heck with it. It seems to me you believed the telemarketer. Why? I just can't fathom spending thousands while in the dark. What did you expect? Or is that too ridiculous to type out? I just don't think believing blindly in the telemarketers is...logical. What you lost is a good chunk to me. Gee, ya might smite me too now...ohh. I hope you get some sort of relief but I bet you learned a lesson..maybe. I am of the opinion you did this to yourself - sorry.
Best,
Eric
you seem to be a gold investor - that probhably has been scammed in the past as LEAR CAPITAL but your name/phone number from another similar operation
or you called their number off of their enticing advertisement
do you feel fraud was committed? How long has it been since you purchased?
or was it multiple purchases over a period of months/years?
the state attorney general where you live and where they are located should be sent a letter detailing precisely how you were scammed
the postal service shoud be sent a copy as well - they broke the 30-day delivery rule as they did not deliver whaqt you asked for
your credit card company should be sent a copy as well as you are going to initiate a chargeback
and LEAR CAPITAL should be sent a copy as well, telling them all parties you are complaining to, and ask if they wish to reconsider
returns on the items you did not ask for
How can tiy buy anything if you have no concept of market value for the item you are purchasing?
unless it is such small change for you that you do not care?
Hiring a lawyer is probably throwing away good money after bad
unless you can figure out how to get their mailing list of purchasers
(you may want to try a mailing list company - to enquire if LEAR CAPITAL has one available for rent)
<< <i>the state attorney general where you live and where they are located should be sent a letter detailing precisely how you were scammed
the postal service shoud be sent a copy as well - they broke the 30-day delivery rule as they did not deliver whaqt you asked for
your credit card company should be sent a copy as well as you are going to initiate a chargeback
and LEAR CAPITAL should be sent a copy as well, telling them all parties you are complaining to, and ask if they wish to reconsider
returns on the items you did not ask for >>
This advice is spot on: State Attorney General (most states have an online section where you can report fraud), I hadn't thought of the postal inspector (that's a good one), Credit Card (yes they can go back more than 60 days if it is fraud) and another avenue is the Federal Trade Commission (you can fill out a complaint from the website). An attorney might scare them into giving you your money back with a letter writing campaign (which will cost you $1-2k easy), but I think the costs outweigh the benefit; again it really depends what the terms/contract stated.
I also know this is going to sound flippant, but I have easily sunk over $2k on my own coin "education" in the past. For me, it was the weird third-party grading compaines that rampaged eBay a few years back; and, I also played and lost a lot at the crackout game.
Good luck!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Am I alone with this, or is this a call-to-arms to other victims and champions of numismatic virtue to clean up the grounds you all nest in? Are you going to be an arm-chair commentator or actually do something constructive to help me clean up your hobby/marketplace? >>
This statement angers me. Explain to me why I am responsible for cleaning up your mess? Do you take accountability for making an uninformed investment decision? Have you reaped any knowledge from the experience that will inform your future actions?
I'm not a dealer, but most collectors that post here have all made mistakes that cost them money. The wise learn from their mistakes and profit from the experience.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I'm not a dealer either, but here's what I did. I decided to slow down and to stop making quick decisions and to make sure that I was paying market pricing on both the buy, and the sell.
Mr. Eureka IS a dealer, and in this instance I wholeheartedly agree with his observations:
According to Lear's Contract (PDF), which I presume you signed, typical (but variable) spreads on such coins are 29%. While that is more than I would tolerate as an investor, their disclosure and performance appears to be more or less in the ballpark. So where's the fraud?
Don't people even read the contracts that they get themselves into? Why do they always think that gold is going to be their financial salvation - without knowing what the heck they need to know about buying gold? Why do people make all these assumptions and ignore the education process? Is Lear's advertising all that compelling? I think it isn't.
There is a Precious Metals Forum here, and your investment seems to be more suited to that forum, unless you intend to be a collector of the graded gold coins that you've bought, but since you've expressed an interest in 90% silver, your questions regarding bullion purchases will be fielded to your satisfaction over there, I am sure.
Welcome to the forum!
I knew it would happen.
Since its not likely a return is possible, and legal recourse improbable...your only way out is the time tested "greater fool" system.
Put the coins up on ebay ASAP with minimally acceptable photos, write a flowery description, and sell with NO RETURNS. Price them at what you have in them plus any ebay fees. Use a Buy It Now and keep relisting until they are sold. SOMEONE WILL BUY THEM FOR WHAT YOU PAID. Make sure in additon to US ebay you list in Japan, the UK and anywhere else that fools typically live.
You are not alone. Nearly everyone here has a story to tell (or a story to keep to themselves) of the bashing they have taken in coins at one point or another.
When you saw the spots on the coins, did you ask Leer to switch them to non-spotted coins? Have you tried calling them now about that?
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Since its not likely a return is possible, and legal recourse improbable...your only way out is the time tested "greater fool" system.
Put the coins up on ebay ASAP with minimally acceptable photos, write a flowery description, and sell with NO RETURNS. Price them at what you have in them plus any ebay fees. Use a Buy It Now and keep relisting until they are sold. SOMEONE WILL BUY THEM FOR WHAT YOU PAID. Make sure in additon to US ebay you list in Japan, the UK and anywhere else that fools typically live.
You are not alone. Nearly everyone here has a story to tell (or a story to keep to themselves) of the bashing they have taken in coins at one point or another." - Ambro51
I could not give this advice. What would this say about "us" as collectors and people?
Eric
Edited to add the author of quoted post.
That is why I said "I could not..." - I am responsible for me alone. What others do...
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>Better than eating a few grand........ If you think the "advice" is not followed day in and day out....youre not a realist. >>
Ambro51,
I might be very mistaken - perhaps you are not being serious!
Best wishes,
Eric