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Any recourse for a burnt novice?

I'll try do do this posting abiding the rules. I'm very new to coins but last year (September 09) I decided to purchase some gold coins and made the mistake of listening to a radio show advert and calling this certain telemarketer company. Well, in short, I was fleeced and scammed royally. Three main problems - and I am asking you folks for help - do I have any recourse or do U just stay ripped off and learn my lesson the hard way? The 3 problems are 1. I asked for the St Gaudens to be MS65's only, and I received 1 at MS62. I stated I didnt want any coins under MS62 and I received a $5 Liberty MS61. 2. I took the coins to a couple local ANA Directory dealers and they said that 2 coins were 'overgraded', e.g. one of the St Gaudens MS65 has a bunch of black spots on the back, and at mint grade 65, shouldn't. 3. Lastly, the phone agent tole me she was quoting 'market prices' but I learnt later that there was a 15-28% mark-up OVER market prices, about $2,000 for a $11,000 purchase, and I feel duped, scammed, ripped off. To make it worse, the very expensive MS65 St Gaudens with the black splotches was purchased for over $3,000!! It's not really worth even half of that, according to the local dealers I showed the coins to. Needless to say this tlelmarketer company refuses to take the coins back for a full refund, and the 'Customer Service' Manager actually tried to scam me again - recommending the coins with the greatest mark-down to buy back, even though he clearly understands I want minimal financial losses over this disgusting situation. Has this happened to anyone else here - and what recourse do I have? ~ Burnt Novice
Devi
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Comments

  • curlycurly Posts: 2,880
    Brother, I don't have anything to offer but my sympathy. You ain't the first and you won't be the last.

    By way, welcome to the forum.
    Every man is a self made man.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭✭
    I am not entirely certain you have any recourse. This has happened numerous times to numerous people over the years. As for the grades, without knowing exactly what the advertisment stated, I don't think you can just say send me all MS65s and be done with it. Did the company actually agree to send you all MS65? Additionally, grading is an opinion. One man's 65, might be another's 66 or 64, or even worse an AU58 (which has also happened). Were your coins graded by PCGS/NGC/ANACS/or some other company? Is the dealer you showed them to a full time reputable dealer with grading knowledge of gold?

    Most of these telemarketers do have mark ups. That is how they make money. If they pay spot for gold, they cannot sell it to you for spot and pay advertisers, employees, etc, and still remain in business. In fact, coin dealers will prbably not sell you gold for spot, either. You will pay a premium. And, dealers will pay back of spot when buying. That is the nature of the business.

    So, if you spent $11,000, how much are your coins worth? $5,000? $8,000? True, you are out a few thousand dollars and I will be royally P-oed, too. You can chalk this up to tuition, or, before jumping in to something new, take time to do your research. Buy a coin book (redbook to start), research reputable internet sites (e.g. coinfacts, PCGS, NGC, etc.).

    I do not know if you have recourse as I previously mentioned. If the purposely misled you and swindled you, then you might be able to find a lawyer to help you out. Or, if you paid by credit cazrd, take it to them and see what they can do for you.

    I hope this helps. I am certain someone else will come along and chime in, too.






  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who is the marketing company?
    Who graded the coins?

    You're not the first to jump in the river before learning to swim.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Tdec1000Tdec1000 Posts: 3,851 ✭✭✭
    If you paid by credit card you could do a charge back stating that you didn't recieve what you purchased. That is fraud in my book.
    Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!

    Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    Don't give up. Instead, read and study about these types of coins and if you're looking for an MS65 then get it certified by a leading grading company such as PCGS

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭✭
    Something else, if you hang around here long enough, you will read horror stories of collectors/dealers buying a professionally graded coin and thinking it is undergraded (e.g. buying an MS66 and thinking it is really and MS67) where there is a huge jump in price. Sometimes folks have cracked these coins from the holders and resubmitted them and got a lower grade, sometimes more than one grade lower, and sometimes a bodybag for a coin that ha been damaged, cleaned, altered surfaces, whizzed, puttied, artificially toned, or etc. Not to mention that sometimes cracking a coin from a holder can be a dangerous game in that one can actually damage the coin. Take, for example, a person using a pair of pliers to crack the plastic holder. Well, if they crack it just right, they may ply right into the coin leaving a very nasty and unappealing damage on the coin's surface. This can easily knock a $10,000 coin down to $100, or even less in extreme cases (e.g. cracking an MS69 1881S Morgan dollar worth several thousand dollars [which noone would do anyway], and putting a humongous scratch or gouge on the coin, which now turns into a $25 coin if lucky).
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear this. New collectors sometimes make dreadful decisions by buying before learning. The price of the lessons from such mistakes can be expensive tuition.

    You didn't say which company graded the coins.

    I doubt you have much recourse. If you follow the usual pattern you will dump these coins at some point because they become painful reminders.

    Welcome to the forum! Listen and learn. Ask before buying.
    Lance.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Most people will spend some time conducting some research before committing to an expensive investment. Buying gold coins shouldn't be any exception. Interested buyers should do a little homework before spending their money and situations like this won't occur as often.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's a bummer, but remember, could have been worse. People invest $10k (or much more) in bad investments every day that eventually become worthless. At least at the end of the day you still have some gold coins which have some value.

    Welcome the to forum, lots to learn here.
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    I'd call my local police department and see if I could get a fraud investigation started. Not sure it would go anywhere, but at this point you have nothing to lose.

    Good luck
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    Have you investigated their return policies?
    Have you checked with the BBB for any outstanidng complaints?
    Have you considered speaking to an attorney?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    In the end, if you have no recourse and not able to get a refund, I'd just go ahead and hold on to what you got.

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485
    Under the circumstances, as described, there is probably no recourse.

    I doubt you will get anywhere with the BBB and would not recommend attempting to get the local police involved. An attorney would probably be expensive. You might try contacting this organization see here - if so, you will need to be specific in the details you provide.

    It would be helpful to know which grading company graded the coins. For example, if it was PCGS or NGC, the MS65 Saint Gaudens $20 is worth $1800+, despite the spots you mentioned, and despite what the local dealers said.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Under the circumstances, as described, there is probably no recourse.

    I doubt you will get anywhere with the BBB and would not recommend attempting to get the local police involved. An attorney would probably be expensive. You might try contacting this organization see here - if so, you will need to be specific in the details you provide.

    It would be helpful to know which grading company graded the coins. For example, if it was PCGS or NGC, the MS65 Saint Gaudens $20 is worth $1800+, despite the spots you mentioned, and despite what the local dealers said. >>



    I agree with Mark. The deal was disadvantageous for the buyer but laws were not violated and there would be no recourse
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    As long as you learned your lesson.

    image
    image
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the forum FRESH MEAT!

    Don't even consider being a member of this board without having a thick skin.

    I have 90,000 shares of stock in a company that is now worth .009 each. Yes, that 9/10 of a cent each.
    I spent a lot more than than to buy that stock. Oh, man it hurts. But life does go on and maybe, just
    maybe, the company will rebound.

    Now, that's not buying one thing and getting another as you apparently have done. So, I not trying to
    minimize your loss just trying to emphasize it!

    Most of us do more research on the new TV we're going to buy or the new car than we do on our investments.

    Bullion or coins are really nothing more than having the pleasure of short term ownership and hopefully preserving
    some of our wealth. Not always is the preservation of wealth a reality.

    I'm sorry that this has happened to you as it has countless others (me included). In the end we hope to have
    something of value to pass on to our heirs. Otherwise it matters not. Enjoy today. Don't worry about tomorrow
    as not much can be done about it. Stay healthy and love as many people as you can, and one dog, too.

    Stick around this forum and kick back and learn a ton about coins, gold, etc. Check out the other forums under
    the navigation window. Spend time earning your dues. Then make a decision and stick with it and invest or
    preserve as you know you can.

    bobimage

    ,

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    Bob,

    is that fannie or freddie?
    image
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bob,

    is that fannie or freddie? >>



    Could have been, 'eh? But, no it's a real company (or was). Still in operation but
    not going anywhere anytime soon!

    bob
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Hi,
    thanks for all the replies. I actually am looking for an attorney - the right kind. The coins are PCGS/NGC certified. The company won't take back a return and the credit card company does not do fraud investigations if its been more than 60 days from purchase - which it is now.

    If you guys are saying this has happened before and its very common to be defrauded by telemarketers - then what about starting a class-action lawsuit? I'll need some recommendations for suitable attorneys - any ideas?

    Thanks!
    Devi
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First, I'd find out what your PCGS/NGC coins are really worth before thinking of retaining an attorney... you need to know what your real loss is first to know whether it's worth pursuing the matter and spending more good money on this.

    Post the list of the dates, grades and grading service of each coin you have and I know there are some folks here who can give you accurate real market prices.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no rules broken.

    how did they justify sending you coins graded lower than your requests? or did you send them for grading?
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭


    << <i>no rules broken.

    how did they justify sending you coins graded lower than your requests? or did you send them for grading? >>



    This would be a key. I think he got them already certified. If he asked for coins already certified a certain grade and given different graded coins then he got the wrong product and should be refunded. Grading raw coins is strictly an opinion.

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • truthtellertruthteller Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
    Other than price, ask the very important questions:

    1) Were the coins misrepresented?
    2) Was payment misrepresented, such as billing for coins and not receiving goods as ordered?

    If you cannot say yes, there is no fraud. You overpaid, just like overpaying on a lease for a car or overpaying for stock which was thought to be a sure thing.

    If you hire an attorney, that's more good money after bad. If you sell your coins for a loss, you may write off a portion of the investment loss on your taxes.



    TRUTH
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it's Gold! why not just hang on and let the market for the metal make you whole in a year or three?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BBNBBN Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭
    The ones always advertising on radio and TV are the exact ones I'd avoid. For future reference apmex.com and gainesvillecoins.com are two good websites for buying if you just want bullion. If you're looking at numismatic gold in high grades study up on your gold coins and look for reputable dealers on ebay.

    Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin

    #1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
    #8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can the Coin Posse help (I think is was called the NCA)? Are they still operating? Every few months or so they would announce how they helped get restitution for folks scammed by telemarketers.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Can the Coin Posse help (I think is was called the NCA)? Are they still operating? Every few months or so they would announce how they helped get restitution for folks scammed by telemarketers. >>



    Their website is "stopcoinfraud.org". Burntnovice, you should check the website out and see if anyone might be able to help.
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about some pictures of the coins in their holders.
    There is always something one can do. Once you pool all of the information(I mean accurate, documented information and not just opinion) you can find a lawyer to look at the facts and determine if you have any recourse. Never give a lawyer heresay information, just recorded facts. They cannot help you with opinionated information.
    Also, regardless of your outcome, I would report them to the authorities. Again, regardless of whether it is common practice for sellers to mark up inventory, it is not common practice to offer an item for a price then raise the price later. BTW, how did it cost you more, exactly. If you gave them a credit card for an $XX sale and they then billed the card $XX++ that is illegal and any credit card agency would disallow the purchase. Don't give up until someone with all the facts and ability to digest them with their legalities looks at them and shows you why there is no recourse.
    Welcome to the forum and best of luck.
    Jim

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you buy these raw and have them graded or did you buy them already graded by PCGS/NGC. And please provide the name of the marketing company you purchased from.

    I agree with the earlier post that you are probably better off just letting the climbing price of gold make you whole. Knowing how these telemarketers work, you probably overpaid for everything you purchased, regardless of grade. Take your loss, learn your lesson, and put your energy into making money in the gold market, not in recovering what you have lost. If you get consumed with fighting this battle you will be in no frame of mind to profit from the rise of gold in the days ahead. Move on. There's money to be made, climb aboard.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>Can the Coin Posse help (I think is was called the NCA)? Are they still operating? Every few months or so they would announce how they helped get restitution for folks scammed by telemarketers. >>



    Their website is "stopcoinfraud.org". Burntnovice, you should check the website out and see if anyone might be able to help. >>

    I posted a link to their site earlier in the thread and suggested that that the original poster contact them.
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    what state are you in?


    what state are they in?


    I am not sure if we heard all the story, but you need to do something within 30 days of receiving to get best results


    some state attorney generals have gotten involved in the past when losses were greater - some telemarketers in the past have sold items at a price of 5-10 times actual value

    many telemarketers make their money by overgrading, therefore misrepresenting the sale


    you actually did not do that bad as many coins are worth 20% less than a year ago



    if someone calls you up offering to sell you a blue goose for $10K, do you learn anything about blue gooses or say, sure that sounds great I have been thinking of investing in blue gooses
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    The details are what makes this a bad buy or a rip off. If you contracted for graded coins at a certain grade and got something lower then it was a rip off. If the coins were raw then graded later or it wasn't clear in the deal what the already graded graded coins were graded then it was a bad deal.

    In any case if you lost 2K on the deal at last years prices then you might be ahead now because prices on gold are up.
    If you're still 2k down today that's not good but it could have been much worse.

    If nothing else learn from it, most investments are risky and the less you research before buying the more risky it is.
    Ed
  • Just a thought; if you think any of the coins have "turned" in the holder, consider joining the PCGS Collectors Club, then send those coins in for a review. If they've developed problems, PCGS could buy them back from you at a very fair price.

    Cartwheel
  • RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077
    Sorry about this happening but all is not lost. I'd skip the lawyer and the police for now.

    Here's what I'd do:

    1. Get some digital images of the coins (any pictures for starters) and post them here.
    2. Include a post with the denominations, dates, grades and TPG right away (especially if you can't post pictures now).
    3. Wait for forum members to chime in with values (it don't take many MS65 Saints to hit $11K)
    4. Go to BBB.org and look up the seller.
    5. File a claim with the BBB if needed.

    If you have several PCGS/NGC Mint State gold pieces, you have a lot of value. Let's figure out what you've got and roughly how much they're worth before proceeding much further.

    Good Luck!
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lastly, the phone agent tole me she was quoting 'market prices' but I learnt later that there was a 15-28% mark-up OVER market prices, about $2,000 for a $11,000 purchase, and I feel duped, scammed, ripped off.

    The coin market includes some dealers that buy coins over-the-counter for less than 50% of what they can get, wholesalers that operate on average spreads of less than 5%, and retailers that double up (or more) on most sales. With all of that going on, how can you possibly expect to determine a single "market price"?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard lessoned learned, but IMO no recourse.

    In the store I see it at least once a week, folks who bought generics from these telemarketing or gold firms that sell mediocre coins at best for extrememly strong prices. They come in to sell some only then realize they got burned.

    IMO, its best to find a reputable (coin) dealer who can honestly evaluate whether a coin is worthy and continually buy from them.

    Most of the subpar generic coins that float through the bourse tend to end up at these type telemarketing /gold firms becuase most of thier clients dont really know how to grade/determine if a gold coin is all there, they simply all of a sudden want to own gold becuase of the current market publicity /hype, and as Wei mention, dont do thier homework.


  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How can you prove what you actually ordered/requested?

    Get an accurate appraisal if you can and either hold on and hope gold goes up or sell now, take your lumps and move on. It might not be worth the effort/$$ to try to go after them.

    Also consider calling the radio station where you heard the promo. They might make a call on your behalf. If not, at least give them a piece of your mind.
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭
    Beginners take baby steps - lesson one. Advanced beginners learn from ignoring lesson one. Stick with coins if you like the hobby. At least you won't have to learn all over again when the next "safe haven" presents itself.
  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man, 11k for 2 bullion coins...I don't know about the liberty value, but you could do some nice bullion damage here on the BST, even on Ampex, with 11k.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about a list of everything you got for 11k including grade and grading company. This will give everyone a good idea of the seriousness of your being ripped.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • truthtellertruthteller Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
    For some reason, I feel ripped off reading this thread. I want my 10 minutes of life back.




    TRUTH
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just a thought; if you think any of the coins have "turned" in the holder, consider joining the PCGS Collectors Club, then send those coins in for a review. If they've developed problems, PCGS could buy them back from you at a very fair price.

    Cartwheel >>



    I don't believe that you have to join to submit coins for guarantee. All that is required is that you own the coin.
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm rather surprised that no one has yet asked why OP chose to throw $11,000 at these coins with some random telemarketer without having at least some basic understanding of the market and value ranges of the items first.

    Put me in the minimal-sympathy crowd.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    welcome-

    First- loose the icon- you missed the timing for that to be an advertisement for RoseMary's Baby

    You really do not have much in the way of options

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Why is it that when I read this sort of thread I can't have much sympathy because it feels like it is akin to pulling teeth just to get the facts or all the ino needed to give advise asked. If the op can't state all the facts needed, then he/she may not have the capacity to understand what is important here ie like specifically valuing the coins in order to determine where he/she stands and thus if he/she is incapapble of that then maybe op is part of the problem ie needs to take some of the blame for this clusterf@#k. Afterall it took two , one supposed innocent unsuspecting customer and one clearly pos coin sales firm.

    Lol. But how do you really feel about this poor man's plight, Realone? image No, seriously, I see where you're coming from. How many times do we hear "buyer beware" in our life, right?

    The forum has different opinions regarding the usefulness of hiring a lawyer. Apparently, the half of the forum who are lawyers say "hire one" and everyone esle says "don't throw good money after bad." lol. image One thing that I didn't see mentioned yet is how, in addition to possible fraud or unlawful trade practices claims, the OP's state might have elder financial abuse laws (or other laws to protect vulnerable people) that could make recovery easier if the OP is old enough (or otherwise vulnerable). Sometimes, in the right situation, lawyers take cases like that on contingency, with little cost to the plaintiff, if those laws allow a winning party to recover their attorney fees. The OP might even be able to find a lawyer to prosecute other claims on contingency. I also think that would be a pretty good gauge of the strength of the OP's case.
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Lol. But how do you really feel about this poor man's plight, Realone? image No, seriously, I see where you're coming from. How many times do we hear "buyer beware" in our life, right?

    The forum has different opinions regarding the usefulness of hiring a lawyer. Apparently, the half of the forum who are lawyers say "hire one" and everyone esle says "don't throw good money after bad." lol. image One thing that I didn't see mentioned yet is how, in addition to possible fraud or unlawful trade practices claims, the OP's state might have elder financial abuse laws (or other laws to protect vulnerable people) that could make recovery easier if the OP is old enough (or otherwise vulnerable). Sometimes, in the right situation, lawyers take cases like that on contingency, with little cost to the plaintiff, if those laws allow a winning party to recover their attorney fees. The OP might even be able to find a lawyer to prosecute other claims on contingency. I also think that would be a pretty good gauge of the strength of the OP's case. >>



    If the law doesn't allow for recovery of attorney fees...after the lawyer's chunk comes out, unless there are punitive damages involved, the person would likely have been better off to have kept and resold the items.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • mikeygmikeyg Posts: 1,002


    Look burnt,I am truly sympathetic about your situation.It sucks for sure.
    However I am shaking my head over someone who buys big ticket items from a telemarketer.Its as crazy as sending in ounces of your old jewelry to a firm who will give you 100.00 or less an ounce.If you were looking for an investment..welcome to the real world.Investments go down as well as up.IMO chasing them with lawyers is a waste of time and money.You may just have to chalk it up to a bad decision.
    Your post confused me somewhat.You mention asking for ms 65 coins.If they agreed (in writting) and it was clear that they were slabbed coins but you got a slabbed ms61 then you were ripped off.A complaint should have been filed with your CC right away.BUT if you said I would like ms 65 coins please and the coins were raw you made a bad decision.Even the best coin dealers will tell you that grading is subjective so your ms 61 may be their ms65.

    By the way someone named Bob has called me from universal a few times because he has a great deal for me in gold coins .He talks like he knows me...hi mike how ya doing today etc.After the first two times I just hang up the phone on him.
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi,
    thanks for all the replies. I actually am looking for an attorney - the right kind. The coins are PCGS/NGC certified. The company won't take back a return and the credit card company does not do fraud investigations if its been more than 60 days from purchase - which it is now.

    If you guys are saying this has happened before and its very common to be defrauded by telemarketers - then what about starting a class-action lawsuit? I'll need some recommendations for suitable attorneys - any ideas?

    Thanks! >>



    If you willingly paid the price they quoted for coins of a particular numerical grade in PCGS and NGC slabs...and they delivered them...no fraud. Many certified coin sellers accept no returns at all because of that trading model...Spots on gold coins are common due to the way the alloy was mixed and indicates an ORIGINAL UNCLEANED coin. Retail Prices for coins vary wildly, like on all items. So-called price guides are averages of surveyed dealers. Sellers (of anything) aren't paying their staffs to call people and tell them to buy the item from a competitor who sells it cheaper because they don't have a sales staff!


    By the way, I think its much better to own 2 or 3 (sometimes ten!)MS62 gold coins for the price of ONE graded MS65
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    The whole concept of buying PCGS/NGC coins is so that novice and expert alike can purchase worry free .

    The authenticity and grade are guaranteed .

    You need only return the coins to the appropriate TPG and if over graded , you will be compensated .

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