Buffalo Nickel Folks: Is the 1914/3 a popular variety? Is it a true variety? Any good pics of one?
Rampage
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I thought I remember reading something about the variety being a falsie, but I do not recall now. Maybe it was something else I am thinking of. Anyway, are there any collectors of the variety? Are price guide estimates near accurate? Overrated, underrated? Scarce in all grades, scarce in md grades up? Finally, does anyone have any decent pictures with what exactly I should be looking for?
Thanks! Richard.
Thanks! Richard.
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...couldn't find any mention of it in the CPG.
<< <i>I thought I remember reading something about the variety being a falsie, but I do not recall now. Maybe it was something else I am thinking of. Anyway, are there any collectors of the variety? Are price guide estimates near accurate? Overrated, underrated? Scarce in all grades, scarce in md grades up? Finally, does anyone have any decent pictures with what exactly I should be looking for?
Thanks! Richard. >>
I discussed this variety with Mike Ellis and Tim Hargis on several occasions when they were working at ANACS/ICG.
Their position at the time was that the only way they would recognize the overdate was if the angle of the 3 was visible to the right of the 4- a flat line above the 4 was not enough to get a certification. Also, at the time, they wouldn't attribute 1914-S examples. The opinion was, they weren't really overdates, but were the result of die clashing. IIRC, all of the major 4/3 dies show clashing. I think SEGS is the only company that attributes all of them now.
Having seen a couple of higher-grade examples, and having 'made' a few of the P-mint examples at ANACS/ICG, I haven't ruled out the possibility of clashing, but haven't ruled out the possibility of an overdate, either.
Here's one I have ....It's a little hard to see, but there is a bar above the 4,. This particular one you can see a little more of the 3 than most.
"Finest Known 1914/3 Nickel, MS66, A Rare Early Die State Example
1914/3 5C MS66 PCGS. FS-014.87. Unlike the 1918/17-D, which was discovered 13 years after striking, the 1914/3 Nickel remained undiscovered until 1996, 82 years after being produced. The initial discovery coin was found by R. A. Medina, who submitted his coin to Bill Fivaz as his entry in a contest initiated by Fivaz and sponsored through CONECA. Later that year a more distinctive example was found by Roger Alexander from a less worn state of the dies. That coin was definitely confirmed as an overdate by Bill Fivaz and NGC encapsulated it after David Lange also confirmed the coin had a 3 underdigit. Just a couple of months later, in March 1997, Austin-based dealer Coleman Foster found an MS63 example while examining bulk lots of coins that had accumulated in the Heritage safes over the previous six months. He alerted Heritage President Gregory J. Rohan to the discovery, and Greg gratefully pulled the coin from the bulk lot, placed it in the June Long Beach Sale where it brought $11,788. Heritage and Mr. Foster split the proceeds from the sale of this coin, which was the first 1914/3 ever offered at public auction.
In The Complete Guide to Buffalo Nickels, David Lange states that "two and possibly three obverse dies have been found with the overdate feature. This suggests that the dual-dating occurred during the creation of a working hub that then transferred this feature to each working die made from it." 1914-S Nickels are also known and a 1914-D is also rumored to exist. Most of the known 1914 overdate Nickels show a very faint impression of the underdigit. Lange goes on to explain, "as with any transfer process, the image erodes somewhat as it is copied, and the overdates seen on each coin are thus third-generation copies." We hasten to add that with each successive striking, fine details such as the underdigit becomes progressively weaker. This is by far the strongest overdate we have seen, and it is nearly as complete as the coin photographed on page 79 of Lange's book. The top of the 3 is quite strong with only slight magnification necessary to see. On this early die state, the diagonal downstroke of the 3 is also equally visible as it angles down and to the left from the top right of the top of the 3.
The coin itself has bright, satiny mint luster and each side is covered with a rich overlay of golden toning. The surfaces are free from any trace of carbon spotting, and there are no abrasions on either side that could be used as a pedigree identifier. Only two Mint State 66 (and two Mint State 65) 1914 overdate nickels have been certified by PCGS, this example, and the toned MS65 coin previously sold in our June, 2002 Long Beach Sale which subsequently upgraded. In our opinion, this fully brilliant specimen is the finest 1914 overdate Nickel certified by either of the major grading services. (#93924)"
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>Beautiful coin hounddog but I can't make out the bar over the 4.
I have a close-up of the date somewhere, I'll post it ,if I can find it. Thanks....
Better pic., hope this helps....
<< <i>Better pic., hope this helps.... >>
I can see it clearly on that image. Looks like a great coin.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I remember seeing a coin in last couple years that was unmistakingly obviously a 4/3
they also have very good descriptions on the higher valued coins
One strong argument supporting the overdate theory is that most of the different individual working dies that show the underdigit also show effacement lines (an attempt to remove the underdigit) that are different on each known die.
I've been working with Bill Fivaz to try to clarify the attribution of this variety by PCGS and understand that, currently, only Die #2 is attributable based on the pattern of effacement lines on that die as is seen on the CPG photo. Die #1 is just as evident, if not more so than is Die #2 and was the die that confirmed the variety in the original Coin World article but too many of the lesser dies have been slabbed as the 14/13 over the years, mainly by second and third tier slabbing companies, which has led to a lot of confusion with it.
I think it's much more notable for that fantastic color.
Maybe the real comparison is against a 1913 Ty-II?
I believe overlays were done at the time it was confirmed. They matched the "3" on the 1913 Var 2.
hrh
<< <i>A lot can depend on the die state of the coin in addition to the specific die. I've mentioned here before that, to me at least, the 14/13 is at least as good as such other accepted varieties as the 1943/42 Jefferson 5c and the 1942-D 2/1 Mercury 10c. >>
I have never been too strong on this overdate and do not see any comparison between this variety and a 42/1 Merc from either Philly or Denver.
I would not pay any extra money for this variety over what a nice 14 would bring.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
FS numbers for all three mints as follows from Cherrypickers guide......
1914/3-p FS-05-1914-101 or old FS-014.87
1914/3-d FS-05-1914D-101 or old FS-014.88
1914/3-s FS-05-1914S-101 or old FS-014.89.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I still intend to post an image of an EDS example of Die #1. See what you think of it if then I'm successful.
<< <i>Makes a mockery of the hobby, any GUIDE that supports this was obviously influenced by someone in the filed that wanted to make money off of it >>
I wonder how they pulled that one off???
I have a very difficult time pasting images to the BB. Hope this one works.
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g175/coinquest1961/1914 14 over 13 01-02/
<< <i>I have a very difficult time pasting images to the BB. Hope this one works.
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g175/coinquest1961/1914 14 over 13 01-02/ >>
Not yet!!
<< <i>
Well, if you can't see this one, maybe you should get your eyes checked. Very nice image! And thank you for posting it
"To each his own, but I dont see how anyone can compare this coin to the 42/1 dime, Philly or Denver, as that is quite a stretch of the imagination."
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, yet I do now see the last pics as being verifiable.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I know the Masters have chimed in and so have the specialists. And maybe it's not an overdate.
But we must admit that something is there.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection