1835 LM-12 Half Dime (R-8) Just Sold at Stack's

Barndog

if my math is correct, price with buyer's premium of fifteen percent is $6,900 .

This is one of just three known examples of the die marriage. This one is a cleaned and hairlined VF. Finest known is a cleaned and hairlined AU. Worst known is about AG.

I'm just got a phone confirmation...it is mine

commoncents05

Congrats!

-Paul

STONE

Dude, Richard, you got that for a fantastic bargain of a price - IMO

I estimated it's value at around $10k.

I figured you were selling so many coins on the BST these past 2 weeks to help fund it.

Again, a huge, hearty CONGRATS to you

Barndog

<< <i>Dude, Richard, you got that for a fantastic bargain of a price - IMO

I estimated it's value at around $10k.

I figured you were selling so many coins on the BST these past 2 weeks to help fund it.

Again, a huge, hearty CONGRATS to you >>



thanks, and you are exactly right.

astrorat

Well done!

Lane

fivecents

Excellent Richard!

waterzooey

grade did not matter... That was ALL about the die marriage baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CONGRATS

Barndog

<< <i>A big congrads for that get!!!!!!!!!!
What did it look like in hand, did you agree witht he grade etc? >>



mostly, what waterzooey said.

It is a cleaned VF+ coin that I will likely net grade for my collection.

STONE

So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here!

Barndog

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples)

STONE

<< <i>

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples) >>


Squeeze UtahCoins arm for that one

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples) >>


Squeeze UtahCoins arm for that one >>



he knows how to contact me

AU58WALKERS

GOOD JOB!

RunnersDad

Congratulations on a terrific purchase!!

keyman64

Congrats! I hope to be the winner of some fine toys at auction one day.

ledzep87

Congrats on the purchase!

Cladiator

BD you're my hero.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples) >>


Most excellent! Congrats!

LeeG

Very Nice!

johnny9434

good job

Nysoto

Congratulations!

That will be an amazing accomplishment when you finish the series

zap1111

I'll use my 700th post to congratulate one of the sages of the forum for snagging an R.8 on the way to completing a tough set. Way to go!!
zap

Waltz

It's a wonderful acquisition. One some people would wait a lifetime to achieve. Well done!

richardshipp

Huge Congrats ! As you know I was cheering you on for that one. Nice to see you made it happen.

TwoSides2aCoin

I noticed this: "The narrower the focus, the more expensive the coin."

birddog1

Congrats. Excellent acquisition. Far less than I thought it would go for. Only one question. Where do we find the 1833 LM-5's to complete our sets?

Best regards from the owner of the 1835 LM-12 G specimen.

L.

Barndog

<< <i>Congrats. Excellent acquisition. Far less than I thought it would go for. Only one question. Where do we find the 1833 LM-5's to complete our sets?

Best regards from the owner of the 1835 LM-12 G specimen.

L. >>



I like the choice of avatar!

I'm going to keep hunting for the elusive 1833 LM-5. Don't care if it has a hole in it, either!

UtahCoin

<< <i>

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples) >>



I still can't believe I totally forgot about the auction........

But on the plus side, I do have one of those 1833 LM-5 (3rd finest at VF)....

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So, how many die marriages (if any) do you have left before reaching all 92 for the series?

It has to be pretty much all down-hill from here! >>



I lack just the 1833 LM-5 (five known examples) >>



I still can't believe I totally forgot about the auction........

But on the plus side, I do have one of those 1833 LM-5 (3rd finest at VF).... >>



you should just give up half dimes to atone for your forgetfulness. I might be able to help you dispose of at least one of your coins

FEVER

CONGRATULATIONS BARNDOG!

How about a photo when you get that puppy in hand?

Best Regards,

Edgar

Barndog

<< <i>CONGRATULATIONS BARNDOG!

How about a photo when you get that puppy in hand?

Best Regards,

Edgar >>



I can add some information about the coin. Its weight is approximately 1.37 grams on an uncalibrated scale. The reeding was nearly gone. In fact, full reeds were nearly indecipherable except in a few places. This seems to be in line with the discovery piece (due to the worn out edge collar). I will post some photos in a couple of weeks. For now, these images from Stack's will have to do:

LanLord

That's G r-8

Barndog

just got the coin back from PCGS.

Here's a quick shot of the slab front:

kryptonitecomics

Wow....from the pic I thought it would BB, but from the full slab shot it doesn't look as bad.....good job!!!

Barndog

I thought it would be worthwhile to post images of the two other 1835 LM-12 half dimes in current collections:

MrEureka

I'd love to see good images of high grade examples of these obverse and reverse dies from other (more common) die marriages. Does anybody have some good images to share?

Barndog

<< <i>I'd love to see good images of high grade examples of these obverse and reverse dies from other (more common) die marriages. Does anybody have some good images to share? >>




obverse die:










reverse die:

Barndog

realone: Arod didn't get his 600th yet. Maybe he needs some juice for #600. He's on 599 now.


Back to the coin...

In this thread Edgar Souders ("fever") announced discovery of the 1835 LM-12 die marriage. What was unsaid in his post was all of the work that he and half dime specialists (Brad Karoleff, Steve Crain, and Glenn Peterson) did to verify that the coin was indeed a genuine US Mint product and that the genuine coin was a new die marriage. Mr. Souders wrote extensively about his discovery in the April 2007 issue of the John Reich Journal.

Authentication of the discovery coin and subsequent coins has included examination by numerous experts, measurement of diameters, measurement of weight, and measurement of specific gravity. Comparisons were made to known half dimes that featured the obverse or reverse found on the 1835 LM-12. The biggest concern I had with my coin, and possibly other coin owners and other specialists had with the other two coins, was with the edge. The reeding is so weak on the edge that I was concerned the coin was a sandwich coin. After reading more about edge collars used in 1836 becoming worn to the point of not imparting much reeding at all AND thorough examination of the entire circumference of my coin to ensure there was no trace of a seam, I was pretty sure this was not a sandwich coin. Nonetheless, I sent the coin to PCGS to be doubly (triply?) sure that I had a real US Mint product. I was pleased to see that PCGS agreed with me and the numismatists at Stack's that my coin was genuine (and even more pleased PCGS offered its opinion of grade at VF35). OK, I didn't explain that all too well, but that's a start for others to ask questions if they wish.

Cladiator

Baley

CoinGrats!

MrEureka

The reeding is so weak on the edge that I was concerned the coin was a sandwich coin.

Since the coin is kind of funky looking, I also wondered if it might be bad, but it never occurred to me that it might be a sandwich. If bad, I assumed that the coins were made to circulate, and that the die marriage was of no interest to the maker. So given that the edge is weak, my thoughts are that the coin might have been cast or that it might have been struck from discarded dies. Granted, it's probably real, because the experts have seen the coins in hand and all I've seen is the images. But how would we go about proving that the coins are real?

Barndog

<< <i>The reeding is so weak on the edge that I was concerned the coin was a sandwich coin.

Since the coin is kind of funky looking, I also wondered if it might be bad, but it never occurred to me that it might be a sandwich. If bad, I assumed that the coins was made to circulate, and that the die marriage was of no interest to the maker. So given that the edge is weak, my thoughts are that the coin might have been cast or that it might have been struck from discarded dies. Granted, it's probably real, because the experts have seen the coins in hand and all I've seen is the images. But how would we go about proving that the coins are real? >>



absolute proof is impossible, isn't it? We can only conclude based upon the significant available evidence.

Most cast coins don't pass the weight and specific gravity tests

MrEureka

Most cast coins don't pass the weight and specific gravity tests

So since this coin did pass those tests, how about we go to the next possibility. Unlikely as it seems, could the coin have been struck from discarded or copy dies? My first question: Does the reeding count of the LM-12 match any other 1835-37 half dimes? And if the reeding is too weak to count, do the parts that can be seen at least look about right?

BTW, I'm not trying to bash this coin, and I do believe it's probably "right". I'm just curious to see what we can prove and disprove.

MrEureka

I'd also like to know how the diameter of the LM-12 matches up against the other two pieces shown above. From the pictures, I'd think it's a little bigger, possibly due to a loose collar.

UtahCoin

Maybe we trade my 1833 LM-5 VF-35, for your 1835 LM-12, and just keep trading them back and forth.....

Barndog

reed count is nearly impossible on these things, unfortunately. My understanding is that the collar was not loose, just worn. I'd recommend Edgar Souder's article "New Die Marriage of 1835 Capped Bust Half-Dime Discovered" in the April 2007 (Volume 18, Issue 1) John Reich Journal. In that article, Mr. Souders explained his set-up (two large screen, Photoshop, and more skill than I could ever muster) and the various comparisons he made...and even he was unable to successfully count all of the reeds.

UtahCoin: Maybe when we are both just one coin away from having all the die marriages and remarriages, we can trade off once per year