Is this worth $2000?
Alltheabove76
Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭✭
I have a chance to buy this for $2000. The repairs seems to be limited to a small portion of the obv field. My criteria for a yes answer would be, would I be able to resell it fairly easily for the same amount.
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<< <i>The repairs seems to be limited to a small portion of the obv field >>
I don't know how that can be determined from the images provided.
Between this coin and the uncertified, possibly-counterfeit one you posted here recently, you seem to be looking for/focused on a good deal or a bargain. In far more cases than not, that will lead to anything but a bargain.
Edited to add: I answer to the question posed ("Is this worth $2000?"), my guess is no.
You are right, I just want decent looking examples that I can afford of certain coins. A problem free example of the same coin is out of my price range.
My Early Large Cents
Unless you know the market and are playing dealer, buy the coin because you like it, and then just enjoy it. The coins I've "overpaid" the most for are the ones whose premiums I've long since forgotten, and are the centerpieces of my collection.
All this said, for the coin you showed, I don't know about the repair from the images, but it's been harshly cleaned, as well. I have no idea what it should sell for, but I can say that I would never buy it.
Edit: fixed typo
<< <i>Mark, as usual, has words of wisdom. The coins with which I've had the most success at reselling once they no longer fit in my collection are those for which I paid a strong price but got a great coin. The more reasons a coin has for a buyer to not like it, the harder it will be to sell, even at a "low" price.
Unless you know the market and are playing dealer, but the coin because you like it, and then just enjoy it. The coins I've "overpaid" the most for are the ones whose premiums I've long since forgotten, and are the centerpieces of my collection.
All this said, for the coin you showed, I don't know about the repair from the images, but it's been harshly cleaned, as well. I have no idea what it should sell for, but I can say that I would never buy it. >>
I dont think it has been harshly cleaned. I think the area that was repaired may have that look to you, but overall the surface has no brush marks or hairlines. I do agree though about overypaying. Problem coins are so hard to value, and I know that no one can really say what its worth for certain. $2000 seems like a good price, but many of you know far more than me which is why I ask.
My Early Large Cents
<< <i>Here is a larger version. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4684833693_3acf1cf4e1_b.jpg
You are right, I just want decent looking examples that I can afford of certain coins. A problem free example of the same coin is out of my price range. >>
But you can get a nice, problem-free Good example of that type for a lot less than $2000. And you might even be able to get a nice VG one for about that amount.
Edited to add: The coin displays obvious signs of cleaning.
Commems and Early Type
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<< <i>Here is a larger version. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4684833693_3acf1cf4e1_b.jpg
You are right, I just want decent looking examples that I can afford of certain coins. A problem free example of the same coin is out of my price range. >>
But you can get a nice, problem-free Good example of that type for a lot less than $2000. And you might even be able to get a nice VG one for about that amount. >>
Just may take a LONG time to find one. Price guides are great, but they dont have a shopping cart logo next to them where you can just snatch one up at will. Only one on ebay right now, Raw in XF for 18K.
My Early Large Cents
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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<< <i>Depends on when you plan to sell it. Next week? Then it will be improbable that you be able to get that back, that is not realistic. In 10 years, most probably. But if you are using as a determination to buy a coin, it's resale value, then you are eliminating a lot of your collecting experience. Do you like the coin? Do you look at it and go "wow?" $2,000 is not an unreasonable price for that coin. Your down side will not be that much even if you are forced to sell it. >>
All of your advice is appreciated. There is more knowledge in this group than any other single source online anywhere.
My Early Large Cents
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<< <i>The repairs seems to be limited to a small portion of the obv field >>
I don't know how that can be determined from the images provided.
Between this coin and the uncertified, possibly-counterfeit one you posted here recently, you seem to be looking for/focused on a good deal or a bargain. In far more cases than not, that will lead to anything but a bargain.
Edited to add: I answer to the question posed ("Is this worth $2000?"), my guess is no. >>
Problem coins are not bargains, even when the asking price is 35-40% of a problem-free example. The solution to your conundrum is to buy fewer coins and be more patient. The focus of any coin collection should be on quality. Using a bargain-basement approach to buying coins will only result in financial loss and disappointment later on.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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<< <i>Here is a larger version. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4684833693_3acf1cf4e1_b.jpg
You are right, I just want decent looking examples that I can afford of certain coins. A problem free example of the same coin is out of my price range. >>
But you can get a nice, problem-free Good example of that type for a lot less than $2000. And you might even be able to get a nice VG one for about that amount. >>
Just may take a LONG time to find one. Price guides are great, but they dont have a shopping cart logo next to them where you can just snatch one up at will. Only one on ebay right now, Raw in XF for 18K. >>
Patience will eventually pay off and impatience will probably bring poor results and unhappiness. And you sound as if you have a bad case of impatience.
Forget about Ebay - check websites of dealers who handle nice coins and offer full return privileges.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-DRAPED-BUST-DOLLAR-ANACS-VF-30-details-WOWWWW-/260534845562?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3ca916407a
My Early Large Cents
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<< <i>Here is a larger version. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4684833693_3acf1cf4e1_b.jpg
And you sound as if you have a bad case of impatience.
Forget about Ebay - check websites of dealers who handle nice coins and offer full return privileges. >>
You know me too well! Have you been talking to my wife?
My Early Large Cents
As for resale, it is always easier to resell a nice looking coin in a problem free holder. The PCGS coin for $4300 would be much easier to resell for what you paid for it.
--Jerry
now, it leaves the potential buyer "on his own" as to the extent of the problem. (if he can even find it)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I found another one on ebay. $4500. Coins look remarkably similar although this one has VF details.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-DRAPED-BUST-DOLLAR-ANACS-VF-30-details-WOWWWW-/260534845562?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3ca916407a >>
This guy is hoping someone will make him a lowball offer at 50% of what he is asking. --Jerry
<< <i>Just may take a LONG time to find one. Price guides are great, but they dont have a shopping cart logo next to them where you can just snatch one up at will. Only one on ebay right now, Raw in XF for 18K. >>
Eliasberg didn't build his collection overnight. Here's a part of a recent post of mine:
Since I joined, my collection went from small, common coins to one containing, in my opinion, extremely original and appealing coins with great quality. My eye has been trained to find the small things--good and bad--and my wallet has been trained to wait for the right piece, rather than always want to buy. I can't stress enough how important it has been for me to realize that a great addition every six months (or more) is far better than mediocre additions at a more frequent pace. Quality is relative--buy to your level and you will enjoy your collection, which is all that matters.
I've had many dry spells, ranging from months to well over a year. I don't regret them, because I never caved and bought something I didn't want. Instead, I kept looking for the perfect piece, and then enjoyed the satisfaction of having a piece I can be really proud of.
As for the second coin you linked, notice, again, that it hasn't sold. People can ask whatever they want, but it doesn't mean they'll get it. If I valued my coins based on eBay BINs, or even what some sellers at shows are asking for junk, I'd be a millionaire on paper.
<< <i>I found another one on ebay. $4500. Coins look remarkably similar although this one has VF details.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-DRAPED-BUST-DOLLAR-ANACS-VF-30-details-WOWWWW-/260534845562?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3ca916407a >>
Is it just me, or do some aspects of that seller's description and feedback seem peculiar?
Once in a while, an eagle-eyed collector can get a bargain using ebay, but the vast majority of classic coin buyers get creamed.
Also be aware that many B&M dealers that sell via ebay are essentially using it as a dumping ground for coins that the dealers
haven't been able to sell in face-to-face transactions.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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<< <i>I found another one on ebay. $4500. Coins look remarkably similar although this one has VF details.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-DRAPED-BUST-DOLLAR-ANACS-VF-30-details-WOWWWW-/260534845562?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3ca916407a >>
This guy is hoping someone will make him a lowball offer at 50% of what he is asking. --Jerry >>
I think I may have just learned something, here. If the coin sold at that, that would make the buyer feel like he got a real sweet deal...
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<< <i>I found another one on ebay. $4500. Coins look remarkably similar although this one has VF details.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-DRAPED-BUST-DOLLAR-ANACS-VF-30-details-WOWWWW-/260534845562?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3ca916407a >>
This guy is hoping someone will make him a lowball offer at 50% of what he is asking. --Jerry >>
I think I may have just learned something, here. If the coin sold at that, that would make the buyer feel like he got a real sweet deal... >>
Until he figures out it was worth $1500. This is a common strategy so be careful. --Jerry
<< <i>When I first started collecting i was afraid to shell out a lot of money (obviously that is individual) for a nice coin and thus gravitated to a certain price range and tin that price range were either problem coins that at first glance seemed to look the coin was in a higher state preservation over the dark original worn coins. This example here reminds of my early days, and then I learned that originality trumped messed with problem coins. But I really learned my lessons when I went to dispose of my problem coins, yes the key word here is dispose, because that is what it felt like when every potential buyer refused to buy my coin(s). Only when I discounted them severely and took it in the shorts at ridiculously low prices did I learn the wisdon of the likes of Mark Feld and other members here. Quality over quantity and patience over impatience. The fact that you were mesmirized by this coin says a lot, so heed the advice here, you can only be saved money in the end. >>
That's very good advice. And you learned it by the seat of your pants, just as I did...
Do you know how to make a small fortune in coins?........Start with a large one.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
Look at the center of the obverse and look at that glob of silver that's been added to the hair and back of neck.
See it as it looks like a horizontal 8, a Tomato, or 2 Butt Cheeks... This coin had a Major central gouge filled IMHO.
Run, Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200!
Maybe someone tried to make this look like a Silver Plugged 1795 Flowing Hair variety
<< <i>Alltheabove76, This has more issues then just a field repair!
Look at the center of the obverse and look at that glob of silver that's been added to the hair and back of neck.
See it as it looks like a horizontal 8, a Tomato, or 2 Butt Cheeks... This coin had a Major central gouge filled IMHO.
Run, Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200!
Maybe someone tried to make this look like a Silver Plugged 1795 Flowing Hair variety
Here is a closeup.
My Early Large Cents
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<< <i>Alltheabove76, This has more issues then just a field repair!
Look at the center of the obverse and look at that glob of silver that's been added to the hair and back of neck.
See it as it looks like a horizontal 8, a Tomato, or 2 Butt Cheeks... This coin had a Major central gouge filled IMHO.
Run, Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200!
Maybe someone tried to make this look like a Silver Plugged 1795 Flowing Hair variety
Here is a closeup.
If you don't think that coin has been harshly cleaned, you shouldn't spend serious money on any coins until you can identify cleaning better. And, bad news for you - that will require PATIENCE.
If you care about resell value, stick with a graded example. As stated- you would be alot better off buying a vg8 example thats problem free.
For the long term on such a coin you can save up another thousand and get an f12-15 example.
As Mark said, to answer your question- no.
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<< <i>Alltheabove76, This has more issues then just a field repair!
Look at the center of the obverse and look at that glob of silver that's been added to the hair and back of neck.
See it as it looks like a horizontal 8, a Tomato, or 2 Butt Cheeks... This coin had a Major central gouge filled IMHO.
Run, Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200!
Maybe someone tried to make this look like a Silver Plugged 1795 Flowing Hair variety
Here is a closeup.
If you don't think that coin has been harshly cleaned, you shouldn't spend serious money on any coins until you can identify cleaning better. And, bad news for you - that will require PATIENCE. >>
I think it has been cleaned. I just dont think it qualifies as harshly cleaned. Coins with that designation I have seen usually look heavily scrubbed with lines and brush marks. Or the metal is damaged with a burned appearance from whatever chemical was used. I appreciate all the opinions, thats what I wanted. My question was if I paid $2000 would it be hard to get my money back, and I guess the answer to that is no one really knows.
My Early Large Cents
<< <i>My question was if I paid $2000 would it be hard to get my money back, and I guess the answer to that is no one really knows. >>
Based on the many responses in this thread, the answer is plainly obvious. If you got that coin for $1000 then maybe you could get your money back by putting it on eBay, but if you took that coin to a show you'd be VERY lucky to get a offer over $500 I'd imagine.
<< <i>I think it has been cleaned. I just dont think it qualifies as harshly cleaned. Coins with that designation I have seen usually look heavily scrubbed with lines and brush marks. >>
A complete lack of color on a coin that should be nearly black indicates a harsh cleaning. Perhaps it could have scrub lines (and they may just be hidden in the photo), but this is more than merely a lightly lightened coin that may constitute a light cleaning.
I personally don't find it attractive, it may be scarce but I'd rather spend $2000 on a lower grade problem free coin or another type of coin altogether.
I think it has been cleaned. I just dont think it qualifies as harshly cleaned. Coins with that designation I have seen usually look heavily scrubbed with lines and brush marks. Or the metal is damaged with a burned appearance from whatever chemical was used. I appreciate all the opinions, thats what I wanted. My question was if I paid $2000 would it be hard to get my money back, and I guess the answer to that is no one really knows.
Given the size and central position of the repair work, together with the fact that it was inexpertly done (or never really finished), the severity of the subsequent cleaning is immaterial. That is the kind of coin that sits around in a dealer's inventory, waiting for a buyer who is excessively price conscious and does not understand the realities of the present coin market. Few collectors or dealers want coins like that, and the consequence of this in terms of marketplace values is readily apparent.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
You'll be ahead of the game with this one.
<< <i>"...
I think it has been cleaned. I just dont think it qualifies as harshly cleaned. Coins with that designation I have seen usually look heavily scrubbed with lines and brush marks. Or the metal is damaged with a burned appearance from whatever chemical was used. I appreciate all the opinions, thats what I wanted. My question was if I paid $2000 would it be hard to get my money back, and I guess the answer to that is no one really knows.
Given the size and central position of the repair work, together with the fact that it was inexpertly done (or never really finished), the severity of the subsequent cleaning is immaterial. That is the kind of coin that sits around in a dealer's inventory, waiting for a buyer who is excessively price conscious and does not understand the realities of the present coin market. Few collectors or dealers want coins like that, and the consequence of this in terms of marketplace values is readily apparent. >>
Sounds like the opinion is universal. I appricate everyone taking the time to give me their opinion.
My Early Large Cents
I generally do not look at any US coinage designs under AU50, as that's where my interest ends.
It isn't plugged /patched as it's just what the curl design looks like when worn smooth from heavy circulation.
<< <i>if you took that coin to a show you'd be VERY lucky to get a offer over $500 I'd imagine. >>
IMO, most dealers at a show would decline to make any offer at all on a coin like that.