I would rather have my coins jacked at a food joint than have the crooks wait until i got to my house.
That said,
Car Alarms Insurance
I hhope they find and prosecute, this type of robbery of coin dealers seems to be growing. Where are all the guns at?
I find it hard to believe that he did not see this from 20 feet away. From time to time i have to haul my ATV's on an open trailer (when i do not take the toy hauler) and stay overnight in hotels. Many a time i have not checked into a hotel due to the layout of the parking lot etc. I will not stop at malls, etc unless someone stays with the vehicle. I am not a security nut but do try to limit my liability as much as possible. I believe in good insurance and a gun.
I like the idea of disabling the inside truck release. Never thought of that one. I do have passive alarms on my 87 Buick Grand National and 78 corvette with starter disables that would take a rocket scientist to figure out that cost very little money. They better bring a tow truck and remove the tracking device if they find it.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>New Jersey law enforcement officer with carry permit for hire. I'll escort to and from show and stand by during show if necessary. PM if interested. >>
Will Work For Quarters
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
I don't know about anywhere else in the world... but here in NJ those annoying things are going off all the time, it seems... and I have yet to see a case where they were going off for a 'real" reason... always a faulty sensor... or the wind... or a cat jumping on the car... or who knows what...
As it is... NO ONE seems to pay any attention to them...
Once... a few months ago... an alarm went off in my neighborhood at around 2am... it woke me up and kept on wailing... I looked out the window and could see nothing out of the ordinary... just a car with it's lights going off and the damn alarm making a racket... I finally called the Police... they were annoyed... their response "We can't respond to every alarm... they are always false alarms anyway" ... I hung up in shock... after 10 minutes, i called back and held the phone to the window... I insisted an officer be sent... they finally relented and around 30 minutes later the Police car finally arrived... and of course, the alarm had stopped by then...
As others have said... unless you are Rambo or Chuck Norris... just exactly what are you gonna do if you do catch the thieves redhanded?
Better to just take every precaution to not make yourself a target then hope fpr the best... Just my two cents
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Seems like this type of robbery is all too frequent. GIven our society and our current economy, I would expect such criminal activity to continue. There seems to be a vast supply of susceptible individuals, and we see very few of these cases solved, coins returned, and perpetrators put away.
It scares me that there are so many additional potential targets of coin dealers out there and that the crooks are likely learning that this is an effective and seemingly-risk free way of obtaining coins that can be sold and net them money for their crime.
I recommend that coin dealers become especially concerned about their security, given the frequency of these thefts.
There are some nice articles on coin security that have been referred to on other posts about these types of robbery.
Not to make anyone paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are placing GPS tracking devices on the dealer cars in the parking lot. Also they may have walked through the show to see what each dealer has.
<< <i>A small steel bolt down safe for less then $250 would have stopped this from occurring. >>
So would a $250 Viper car alarm with 2-way remote. The remote FOB goes off when your alarm is tripped. I have one in my vehicle, and it even if someone bumps my door at work, it will tell on them immediately!
<< <i>A small steel bolt down safe for less then $250 would have stopped this from occurring. >>
So would a $250 Viper car alarm with 2-way remote. The remote FOB goes off when your alarm is tripped. I have one in my vehicle, and it even if someone bumps my door at work, it will tell on them immediately!
>>
And then what? You run out there and take a bullet to the head?
<< <i>As others have said... unless you are Rambo or Chuck Norris... just exactly what are you gonna do if you do catch the thieves redhanded? >>
I know a few dealers that have a concealed carry permit and they are armed and they know how to use their weapon. Some are ex-military and at least one that I know of is a retired police officer. I don't know what they would do in this situation but I doubt that they would squeal like a little girl and run away. One of these days, one of these smash and grab thieves are going to pick the wrong target.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I know one home that would be a bad place for thieves. Last night the kids and I (9 yr old boy and 6 yr old girl) were watching Top Shot on history channel. They like any show with competition and love the history channel. When the contestants got ready to take the long distance challenge with the Remington Model 700 sniper rifle, my kids were surprised when dad disappeared and came back with a rifle. I had Tommy read the barrel, "Remington Model 700". Not really for home protection since it CA you can't shoot them until they are inside.
The bottom line is that every dealer and serious collector has to have a strategy for protecting their coins, their loved ones, and their home. I don't really publish much online except that I don't keep valuables in the house and I am a strong believer in firearms and growing up in Missouri I was disciplined by my dad if I shot a squirrel anywhere but the head, and the fact that the squirrel was running through the treetops and I was using a single shot 22 was no excuse.
These dealers don't publish their strategy either. Most don't even reply to threads like this other than to say that they are sorry for the victim.
It isn't as simple as reading an internet synopsis would make it sound.
One thing that folks have to keep in mind in this particular instance is that this happened in late afternoon of a warm day in the parking lot of a busy restaurant. There were people in the window seats of the restaurant as well as plenty of cars on the highway just on the other side of the parking lot. Therefore, at any given moment there might have been up to fifty people within one hundred feet of this crime. I would strongly advise anyone here who lightly comments about carrying a firearm in order to confront a thief to ask themselves a few questions and to answer them honestly.
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out? Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon? If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it? Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation? Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
These are things each of us should think about long and hard before we need to act in an emergency. In the past I have asked myself these questions and have taken the proper training and other steps to best protect myself under various circumstances. This isn't a game. Once you pull a firearm the stakes rise dramatically and once you pull the trigger there is no turning back the clock.
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out? Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon? If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it? Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation? Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
>>
Tom, Those are questions anyone who responsibly uses a firearm for protection has already answered. I don't think anyone has suggested that unqualified people be given firearms. The last two on your list should be avoidable. Proper use of a weapon should reduce the likelihood of those happening as well.
If you're looking at my post, note that it was in response to suggestions that the thieves might follow you home. Once someone has invaded your home, especially my home with my kids in it, the answer to number 3 gets much easier for many of us. --Jerry
Howdy Jerry. No, I was not responding to your post as I was typing while you were posting. My post was written as a generic response to a number of responses from this and other threads. In those responses there is a tendancy, as I interpret the response, to write in a somewhat Rambo style that I do not always shows an appreciation for the consequences of certain decisions that might be made. I find nothing to comment on with respect to your posts other than to say that I think there are folks who go out there armed and who are not as responsible as they might or should be. Also, unless you get the drop on all the thieves, there is the possibility that the firearm of a thief will kill an innocent bystander even if you are an expert marksman.
Put me in the minimal sympathy crowd. Same scenario, same mistake, same outcome. When I posted a thread about common sense security tips shortly after Julian's incident, it was met with little response. I even encouraged input and tips from others in an attempt to generate dialogue. Seems it isn't that important to a lot of people.
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road? >>
They happened on the road... not at the show location... as stated in the OP...
As for Jon's comment... wrong... there is a security presence... while he may choose to use that as an excuse... oops, I mean reason for leaving the show ... it is simply not true...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road? >>
They happened on the road... not at the show location... as stated in the OP... >>
It was a rhetorical question. I was making the point that security or the lack thereof at a show has no relevance when discussing a smash and grab that takes place several miles away from the show.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If you call having an older retired cop who sometimes is outside covering the parking lot and sometime not .....excellent security for a coin show .....with that many dealers and that many open access points for something to happen....so be it.... Yes, I left for several reasons including security..... if people say otherwise than you did not hear correctly!
If you remember a year back a dealers case was grabbed inside the show.... and the following month another dealer had rolls of Morgan Dollars stolen from his back table.... there was also another known clepto walking the show.... Sorry but when there are crooks roaming the halls...I dont want to be there with my merchandise!!!!
Security does since they are targeting coin dealers....good security at the shows helps deter smash and grabs >>
Jon, you had previously said "FYI, the security was non existant at the show". And the reply you received was "As for Jon's comment... wrong... there is a security presence". No one said anything about "excellent security".
<< <i>hiring an off duty police officer seems like money well spent >>
If there were 100 dealers at the show and they all hired a cop to escort them home, then it would have been wasted money for 99 of them. And the last 15 shows it would have been wasted money for all of them. But we only know it would be wasted because we have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.
Lots of posts in these type of threads have very clear and effective actions as dictated by this clear hindsight. It wouldn't be so easy based on foresight.
So do you recommend every dealer at the next show be prepared to fork out $250 for an armed escort home?
A single security guard, no matter how well equipped, trained, and experienced is not going to be able to watch an entire show properly never mind loading and unloading. A guard will also have little effect on what happens once a coin-laden vehicle leaves the premises, which seems to be where most of the heavy duty thefts have taken place. You are far better off relying on your partners, buddies, friends, significant other, etc.
I know some dealers who tie/lock down their briefcases with heavy duty cables and chains. If the smash and grabbers don't have some heavy duty lock/bolt cutters or torches available, they won't be getting very far before someone notices what they're doing.
<< <i>hiring an off duty police officer seems like money well spent >>
If there were 100 dealers at the show and they all hired a cop to escort them home, then it would have been wasted money for 99 of them. And the last 15 shows it would have been wasted money for all of them. But we only know it would be wasted because we have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.
Lots of posts in these type of threads have very clear and effective actions as dictated by this clear hindsight. It wouldn't be so easy based on foresight.
So do you recommend every dealer at the next show be prepared to fork out $250 for an armed escort home?
--Jerry >>
it doesn't sound like much money to lessen the chances of being robbed, or killed.
<< <i>Hi Mark, The last time I set up there and left the show .... there was no security outside..... I do not know why or if the guy was on some sort of break.... hence I said there was no security..... that was the final straw for me regarding the show... there were other reasons as well.... but I do not want to put down someone elses show....
I have not been back in several months so I do not know if they have security or not.... but just because someone is hired and puts on a jacket saying security is not my idea of security.... I want to know that there are undercover and armed guard present.... they used to charge each dealer an extra $10 bucks for "security" at that show.... again I do not know what they are doing now.... those who are there no that there is a lot of open enter/exits and a lot of stuff going on.... a year prior I requested moving my spot to a new table that had a wall behind me because strangers were walking between dealer booths who should not have.... to me the security was not in place..... just my 2 cents... I dont want to get into a back and forth with everyone on the boards.... one reason that I hate posting here....everyone jumps on people twisting things around.... >>
Jon, I will say that the security at your show appeared to be outstanding.
<< <i>I wonder if it would be worth looking into show transport via armored car? I have no idea how much something like that would cost, but if you were transporting a small fortune it might be worth it. >>
That is generally slow and costly. A number of other practical, common-sense recommendations have already been made, and most of them are cost-free or very low cost. Not leaving valuables in a car, unattended is a great place to start.
Car alarms are useless. Everyone ignores them because of all the false alarms. Also who is going to risk their life by getting involved in preventing someones car from getting stolen or broken into? Not me. Maybe the day of the coin show is coming to an end?
Parsippany is not a high crime area by no means, in fact its a very nice area, but the show is right off US Route 46, which allows people from not so nice areas nearby to come and go rather easily.
My suggestion is that the police should try to get these criminals to break into a "bait car".
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out? Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon? If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it? Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation? Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
>>
No point in having a concealed permit if you are not going to use it when the time comes. That said i do not carry even though i can. I try to stay on top of the area i am in so i do not get surprised.
Car alarms most of the time are just annoying. Years ago when my wife worked at a local hospital she always had to park on the top floor of the parking garage due to the time she went daily. For years her daily driver was a vette and every day she set off 50 to 100 car alarms just driving thru the parking garage. lol
While there is crime everywhere i am amazed that no one saw anything when you say the owner was within 100 feet and 50 to 100 people were around. If that happened where i lived at least 10 people would have wanted to be a hero and play rambo.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
PARSIPPANY — Cash, coins and jewelry estimated at more than $100,000 was stolen in two smash-and-grab burglaries from the vehicles of vendors who attended the Garden State Coin, Stamp and Currency Show last Sunday afternoon, police said. The thefts, which both took place in the parking lots of two Route 46 restaurants during a heavy downpour, occurred following the show held at the Police Athletic League building on Baldwin Road, Parsippany Police Officer Earl Kinsey said. Both thefts occurred within 30 minutes of each other, Kinsey said.
The vendors, who were not identified, each told police they had stopped to have dinner when the vehicles were burglarized, Kinsey said.
The first theft was reported by the vendor who had parked at Chili's on Route 46 West, and later discovered $20,000 worth of valuable coins and $3,000 in cash was missing from his vehicle. While inside the restaurant, the vendor told police he noticed the side window of his sedan had been smashed and the trunk was ajar at 3:39 p.m., Kinsey said. The vendor told police the items were contained in a security box and briefcase.
At 4:05 p.m., the second vendor reported the theft of $38,000 in cash and $50,000 in coins, gold, silver and jewelry was stolen from his vehicle while it was parked at the McDonald's in the Troy Hills Shopping Center on Route 46 East. He told police he was in the restaurant for about 10 to 15 minutes and returned to find the rear passenger window of his SUV smashed and the items taken, Kinsey said. The items were contained in bags similar to bank bags, with plastic molding built inside to hold coins, Kinsey said.
Police believe both burglaries are related, and are looking for anyone who may have witnessed anything suspicious in either parking lot during the time period. Kinsey noted visibility was hampered since the thefts occurred during the downpour, but the vehicles were the only cars burglarized during that time.
In the first burglary, Kinsey noted the thief or thieves futilely tried prying open the trunk door, and then smashed the window to gain access to the valuables.
"(The vendors) were both at the coin show. Both had a lot of money, gold, coins in the cars," Kinsey said. "(The thieves) obviously knew what they were looking for."
The thefts remain under investigation.
Anyone with any information on the thefts is asked to call Parsippany Police at (973) 263-4300. link
<< <i>Looks like dealers need to pack a snack for the ride home. >>
I was thinking along the same line. Years ago i used to do shows in sportscards and always went through a drive thru for some fast food.This is becoming to routine.
Sorry to hear, appears you can't leave anything in your car. How about a small safe bolted to the car, anything to make it tougher. JMO, maybe a dummy breif case in plain view, filled with pennies, or some sort of weight? Hope the perps are caught. scott
<< <i>Not to make anyone paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are placing GPS tracking devices on the dealer cars in the parking lot. Also they may have walked through the show to see what each dealer has. >>
very good Halfstrike - i was thinking the same thing
the question is, do they make a device to tell if a car has been bugged maybe all the cars are bugged and the crooks watch and see who gets in what car and follow that specific signal
i know about 20 yrs ago, i asked a PI about following my X-wife now who i thought was cheating on me and he said the easiest thing to do is plant a tracking device on the car and see where she goes. But to make it legal, it had to be my own car which it was. In the end i declined the offer and we got a divorce anyways, But, Imagine 20 years later today, what is possible
The other thing to keep in mind is the thieves probably read these boards also so all these great ideas will be no secret to them. Pretty much a cat and mouse game.
This reminds me of the citizen who was carrying a weapon to the pharmacy in our little town of Benson, Nebraska recently. A young assailant armed with a shotgun came into the Walgreens and attempted to rob the place. This young man is no longer in our world. The citizen was armed and dangerous, too. But who is within the law when killing or stealing ? I'm happy nobody died in that smash and grab, but a warning to the thieves.... You will get your chance at justice if you continue on your path.
<< <i>Sorry to hear, appears you can't leave anything in your car. How about a small safe bolted to the car, anything to make it tougher. JMO, maybe a dummy breif case in plain view, filled with pennies, or some sort of weight? Hope the perps are caught. scott >>
How about simply not leaving your car unattended when there are valuables inside? How about eating before you begin your drive, bringing snacks with you, using a drive through or eating when you get home? It's not very complicated.
One thing to consider...I've stayed overnight in Parsippany before. The hotel security guard advised us that it would not be safe for us to go out to the car in the parking lot, even if he accompanied us.
I've not really felt comfortable there since then. (It was the first time I had ever stayed over night in New Jersey).
I do have to wonder why the model car show that used to be held there had multiple uniformed, armed police men when the coin show doesn't...where the most expensive model car is only around $300...Maybe the coin show is all undercover guys?
Folks are making a point of the foolish decisions that each of these dealers made after the Parsippany show and there is no debating that they increased their risks greatly from their decisions. However, at the peril of somehow seeming to reduce the foolishness of the decisions, I would just like to mention that most folks who read or post to these boards have made foolish decisions or decisions that increase risk from time to time, too. Has anyone ever driven without putting their seat belt on? How about riding a bicycle or motorcycle without protective head gear? Who here has ever smoked? Many times people receive no negative consequence from putting their health, life or wealth in danger, but all you need is one time for this to play out negatively and it can be quite bad.
Comments
That said,
Car Alarms
Insurance
I hhope they find and prosecute, this type of robbery of coin dealers seems to be growing. Where are all the guns at?
I find it hard to believe that he did not see this from 20 feet away. From time to time i have to haul my ATV's on an open trailer (when i do not take the toy hauler) and stay overnight in hotels. Many a time i have not checked into a hotel due to the layout of the parking lot etc. I will not stop at malls, etc unless someone stays with the vehicle. I am not a security nut but do try to limit my liability as much as possible. I believe in good insurance and a gun.
I like the idea of disabling the inside truck release. Never thought of that one. I do have passive alarms on my 87 Buick Grand National and 78 corvette with starter disables that would take a rocket scientist to figure out that cost very little money. They better bring a tow truck and remove the tracking device if they find it.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Have the trunk face the window when eating.
Also a bicycle rack on top or behind the trunk might slow down the culprits a little bit?
I agree with SeaEagles ideas as well.
<< <i>New Jersey law enforcement officer with carry permit for hire. I'll escort to and from show and stand by during show if necessary. PM if interested. >>
Will Work For Quarters
I don't know about anywhere else in the world... but here in NJ those annoying things are going off all the time, it seems... and I have yet to see a case where they were going off for a 'real" reason... always a faulty sensor... or the wind... or a cat jumping on the car... or who knows what...
As it is... NO ONE seems to pay any attention to them...
Once... a few months ago... an alarm went off in my neighborhood at around 2am... it woke me up and kept on wailing... I looked out the window and could see nothing out of the ordinary... just a car with it's lights going off and the damn alarm making a racket... I finally called the Police... they were annoyed... their response "We can't respond to every alarm... they are always false alarms anyway" ... I hung up in shock... after 10 minutes, i called back and held the phone to the window... I insisted an officer be sent... they finally relented and around 30 minutes later the Police car finally arrived... and of course, the alarm had stopped by then...
As others have said... unless you are Rambo or Chuck Norris... just exactly what are you gonna do if you do catch the thieves redhanded?
Better to just take every precaution to not make yourself a target then hope fpr the best... Just my two cents
<< <i>This is pretty scary. What would prevent a thief from following a dealer home? >>
Death. Despite inflation, the wages of sin remain the same.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It scares me that there are so many additional potential targets of coin dealers out there and that the crooks are likely learning that this is an effective and seemingly-risk free way of obtaining coins that can be sold and net them money for their crime.
I recommend that coin dealers become especially concerned about their security, given the frequency of these thefts.
There are some nice articles on coin security that have been referred to on other posts about these types of robbery.
<< <i>A small steel bolt down safe for less then $250 would have stopped this from occurring. >>
So would a $250 Viper car alarm with 2-way remote. The remote FOB goes off when your alarm is tripped. I have one in my vehicle, and it even if someone bumps my door at work, it will tell on them immediately!
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
My V Nickel Registry Set - https://pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/71874
<< <i>
<< <i>A small steel bolt down safe for less then $250 would have stopped this from occurring. >>
So would a $250 Viper car alarm with 2-way remote. The remote FOB goes off when your alarm is tripped. I have one in my vehicle, and it even if someone bumps my door at work, it will tell on them immediately!
And then what? You run out there and take a bullet to the head?
<< <i>As others have said... unless you are Rambo or Chuck Norris... just exactly what are you gonna do if you do catch the thieves redhanded? >>
I know a few dealers that have a concealed carry permit and they are armed and they know how to use their weapon. Some are ex-military and at least one that I know of is a retired police officer. I don't know what they would do in this situation but I doubt that they would squeal like a little girl and run away. One of these days, one of these smash and grab thieves are going to pick the wrong target.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I haven't heard one go off for some time.
I have heard that because so many alarms go off needlessly (cats walking on cars, etc),
there are people who will vandalize cars with alarms.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
The bottom line is that every dealer and serious collector has to have a strategy for protecting their coins, their loved ones, and their home. I don't really publish much online except that I don't keep valuables in the house and I am a strong believer in firearms and growing up in Missouri I was disciplined by my dad if I shot a squirrel anywhere but the head, and the fact that the squirrel was running through the treetops and I was using a single shot 22 was no excuse.
These dealers don't publish their strategy either. Most don't even reply to threads like this other than to say that they are sorry for the victim.
It isn't as simple as reading an internet synopsis would make it sound.
--Jerry
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out?
Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon?
If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it?
Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation?
Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
These are things each of us should think about long and hard before we need to act in an emergency. In the past I have asked myself these questions and have taken the proper training and other steps to best protect myself under various circumstances. This isn't a game. Once you pull a firearm the stakes rise dramatically and once you pull the trigger there is no turning back the clock.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Its also incorrect.I didnt know thefts from unattended vehicles were not covered.
Theres me and my newbieness to the USA , i didnt know the law or how insurance works , my apologies to the forum.
<< <i>
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out?
Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon?
If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it?
Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation?
Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
>>
Tom,
Those are questions anyone who responsibly uses a firearm for protection has already answered. I don't think anyone has suggested that unqualified people be given firearms. The last two on your list should be avoidable. Proper use of a weapon should reduce the likelihood of those happening as well.
If you're looking at my post, note that it was in response to suggestions that the thieves might follow you home. Once someone has invaded your home, especially my home with my kids in it, the answer to number 3 gets much easier for many of us. --Jerry
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Lafayette Grading Set
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road? >>
They happened on the road... not at the show location... as stated in the OP...
As for Jon's comment... wrong... there is a security presence... while he may choose to use that as an excuse... oops, I mean reason for leaving the show
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the security was non existant at the show....which is one of the reasons that we stopped setting up there several months ago... we warned dealers about this exact same thing.... way too bad >>
Do these smash and grabs happen on the show premises or while the dealer was on the road? >>
They happened on the road... not at the show location... as stated in the OP... >>
It was a rhetorical question. I was making the point that security or the lack thereof at a show has no relevance when discussing a smash and grab that takes place several miles away from the show.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If you call having an older retired cop who sometimes is outside covering the parking lot and sometime not .....excellent security for a coin show .....with that many dealers and that many open access points for something to happen....so be it....
Yes, I left for several reasons including security..... if people say otherwise than you did not hear correctly!
If you remember a year back a dealers case was grabbed inside the show.... and the following month another dealer had rolls of Morgan Dollars stolen from his back table.... there was also another known clepto walking the show.... Sorry but when there are crooks roaming the halls...I dont want to be there with my merchandise!!!!
Security does since they are targeting coin dealers....good security at the shows helps deter smash and grabs >>
Jon, you had previously said "FYI, the security was non existant at the show". And the reply you received was "As for Jon's comment... wrong... there is a security presence". No one said anything about "excellent security".
<< <i>hiring an off duty police officer seems like money well spent >>
If there were 100 dealers at the show and they all hired a cop to escort them home, then it would have been wasted money for 99 of them. And the last 15 shows it would have been wasted money for all of them. But we only know it would be wasted because we have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.
Lots of posts in these type of threads have very clear and effective actions as dictated by this clear hindsight. It wouldn't be so easy based on foresight.
So do you recommend every dealer at the next show be prepared to fork out $250 for an armed escort home?
--Jerry
I know some dealers who tie/lock down their briefcases with heavy duty cables and chains. If the smash and grabbers don't have some heavy duty lock/bolt cutters or torches available, they won't be getting very far before someone notices what they're doing.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>hiring an off duty police officer seems like money well spent >>
If there were 100 dealers at the show and they all hired a cop to escort them home, then it would have been wasted money for 99 of them. And the last 15 shows it would have been wasted money for all of them. But we only know it would be wasted because we have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.
Lots of posts in these type of threads have very clear and effective actions as dictated by this clear hindsight. It wouldn't be so easy based on foresight.
So do you recommend every dealer at the next show be prepared to fork out $250 for an armed escort home?
--Jerry >>
it doesn't sound like much money to lessen the chances of being robbed, or killed.
<< <i>Hi Mark, The last time I set up there and left the show .... there was no security outside..... I do not know why or if the guy was on some sort of break.... hence I said there was no security..... that was the final straw for me regarding the show... there were other reasons as well.... but I do not want to put down someone elses show....
I have not been back in several months so I do not know if they have security or not.... but just because someone is hired and puts on a jacket saying security is not my idea of security.... I want to know that there are undercover and armed guard present.... they used to charge each dealer an extra $10 bucks for "security" at that show.... again I do not know what they are doing now.... those who are there no that there is a lot of open enter/exits and a lot of stuff going on.... a year prior I requested moving my spot to a new table that had a wall behind me because strangers were walking between dealer booths who should not have.... to me the security was not in place..... just my 2 cents... I dont want to get into a back and forth with everyone on the boards.... one reason that I hate posting here....everyone jumps on people twisting things around.... >>
Jon, I will say that the security at your show appeared to be outstanding.
<< <i>I wonder if it would be worth looking into show transport via armored car? I have no idea how much something like that would cost, but if you were transporting a small fortune it might be worth it. >>
That is generally slow and costly. A number of other practical, common-sense recommendations have already been made, and most of them are cost-free or very low cost. Not leaving valuables in a car, unattended is a great place to start.
My suggestion is that the police should try to get these criminals to break into a "bait car".
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>
<< <i>
If I carry a weapon am I willing to pull it out?
Under what circumstances am I willing to confront a thief with my weapon?
If I pull my weapon am I willing to kill with it?
Am I willing to be killed in the confrontation?
Am I willing to have innocent bystanders killed in the crossfire?
>>
No point in having a concealed permit if you are not going to use it when the time comes. That said i do not carry even though i can. I try to stay on top of the area i am in so i do not get surprised.
Car alarms most of the time are just annoying. Years ago when my wife worked at a local hospital she always had to park on the top floor of the parking garage due to the time she went daily. For years her daily driver was a vette and every day she set off 50 to 100 car alarms just driving thru the parking garage. lol
While there is crime everywhere i am amazed that no one saw anything when you say the owner was within 100 feet and 50 to 100 people were around. If that happened where i lived at least 10 people would have wanted to be a hero and play rambo.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
The thefts, which both took place in the parking lots of two Route 46 restaurants during a heavy downpour, occurred following the show held at the Police Athletic League building on Baldwin Road, Parsippany Police Officer Earl Kinsey said. Both thefts occurred within 30 minutes of each other, Kinsey said.
The vendors, who were not identified, each told police they had stopped to have dinner when the vehicles were burglarized, Kinsey said.
The first theft was reported by the vendor who had parked at Chili's on Route 46 West, and later discovered $20,000 worth of valuable coins and $3,000 in cash was missing from his vehicle. While inside the restaurant, the vendor told police he noticed the side window of his sedan had been smashed and the trunk was ajar at 3:39 p.m., Kinsey said. The vendor told police the items were contained in a security box and briefcase.
At 4:05 p.m., the second vendor reported the theft of $38,000 in cash and $50,000 in coins, gold, silver and jewelry was stolen from his vehicle while it was parked at the McDonald's in the Troy Hills Shopping Center on Route 46 East. He told police he was in the restaurant for about 10 to 15 minutes and returned to find the rear passenger window of his SUV smashed and the items taken, Kinsey said. The items were contained in bags similar to bank bags, with plastic molding built inside to hold coins, Kinsey said.
Police believe both burglaries are related, and are looking for anyone who may have witnessed anything suspicious in either parking lot during the time period. Kinsey noted visibility was hampered since the thefts occurred during the downpour, but the vehicles were the only cars burglarized during that time.
In the first burglary, Kinsey noted the thief or thieves futilely tried prying open the trunk door, and then smashed the window to gain access to the valuables.
"(The vendors) were both at the coin show. Both had a lot of money, gold, coins in the cars," Kinsey said. "(The thieves) obviously knew what they were looking for."
The thefts remain under investigation.
Anyone with any information on the thefts is asked to call Parsippany Police at (973) 263-4300.
link
<< <i>Looks like dealers need to pack a snack for the ride home. >>
I was thinking along the same line. Years ago i used to do shows in sportscards and always went through a drive thru for some fast food.This is becoming to routine.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
How about a small safe bolted to the car, anything to make it tougher.
JMO, maybe a dummy breif case in plain view, filled with pennies, or some sort of weight?
Hope the perps are caught.
scott
<< <i>Not to make anyone paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are placing GPS tracking devices on the dealer cars in the parking lot. Also they may have walked through the show to see what each dealer has. >>
very good Halfstrike - i was thinking the same thing
the question is, do they make a device to tell if a car has been bugged
maybe all the cars are bugged and the crooks watch and see who gets in what car
and follow that specific signal
i know about 20 yrs ago, i asked a PI about following my X-wife now who i thought was cheating on me
and he said the easiest thing to do is plant a tracking device on the car and see where she goes. But to make it legal, it had
to be my own car which it was. In the end i declined the offer and we got a divorce anyways,
But, Imagine 20 years later today, what is possible
CSS (civilian security system)
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Sorry to hear, appears you can't leave anything in your car.
How about a small safe bolted to the car, anything to make it tougher.
JMO, maybe a dummy breif case in plain view, filled with pennies, or some sort of weight?
Hope the perps are caught.
scott >>
How about simply not leaving your car unattended when there are valuables inside? How about eating before you begin your drive, bringing snacks with you, using a drive through or eating when you get home? It's not very complicated.
I've not really felt comfortable there since then. (It was the first time I had ever stayed over night in New Jersey).
I do have to wonder why the model car show that used to be held there had multiple uniformed, armed police men when the coin show doesn't...where the most expensive model car is only around $300...Maybe the coin show is all undercover guys?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson