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Is all the money fighting doctors taking resources from the bigger problem

GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
I tend to be a cynic in this regard but is all the money fighting doctors taking resources from the bigger problem? I would bet that all these coins that are being doctored are authentic coins that are being manipulated. PCGS is committing a lot of time and effort to fight them which is commendable and necessary. HOWEVER, this all becomes a moot point if the Chinese continue to advance and can strike U.S. coins that can fool the experts. I have not seen any of the super counterfeits yet but from what I have heard, it would not be shocking if some made it into top tier holders. Who will care if someone cuts the bands of a Merc dime if you can have one made to order from China. Isn't that a much bigger threat?

These are both huge problems that need to be addressed but lets not let ourselves get too focused on the doctors when there are 2 big problems.

Comments

  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Doctoring is not counterfeitingimage
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They are both important to fight. One is an evil within the industry and one is an evil coming abroad.

    Personally I think by far the bigger problem is the coin doctors within the coin industry.

    This evil within the coin hobby industry must be exposed, and heavy handedly discouraged.

    Collectors need to feel protected by a set of recognized fundamental standards that punishes this kind of get rich quick deception at the expense of others.

    This is way overdue and the leaders of the ANA, PNG, NGC and other coin hobby organizations should totally get behind PCGS and publically figh this kind of deception if they want their organizations to have any meaning .
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    so far , I believe when a Chinese fake gets to PCGS -they have no problem identifying it as such

    as for the fake coins raw , or in fake holders how would PCGS address that issue ?

    Their Secure Plus digital mapping is a huge step in the right direction, and I think their modified guarantee excludes the Chinese fakes altogether .

    In the not to distant future Nano-molecular technology will allow a big computer and a machine to build coins on an atomic level , molecule

    by molecule . By then PCGS will have to have perfected a full-proof holder , whatever that might be .
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is finding seated, capped bust & EACs, and Barbers for collectors, which haven't been tampered with, in vf-xf condition cheap image
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭
    I agree, the counterfeit coin problem is probably worse for the average collector, but the coin doctoring problem is a bigger problem for PCGS.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Counterfeiting is a separate issue. The problem is not as large as doctoring, however, it is a growing problem. So far, such items, be it slabs or coins, are detectable by reasonable examination. Deal with respected people and likely you will not run into the counterfeits. Deal on ebay, craigslist et al, you had better know what you are doing, examine the coin first before parting with your money (proxy deal), or you will get burned. The mapping of the Secure program will help considerably when determining authenticity.... no help though if you have paid your money already. Cheers, RickO
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    I believe the same technology addresses both. --Jerry
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree, the counterfeit coin problem is probably worse for the average collector, but the coin doctoring problem is a bigger problem for PCGS. >>

    Due to the fact that coins whichg show doctoring AFTER they've been slabbed costs PCGS money whereas the possibility of getting a counterfeit coin slabbed is practically nil.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    << <i>I tend to be a cynic in this regard but is all the money fighting doctors taking resources from the bigger problem? I would bet that all these coins that are being doctored are authentic coins that are being manipulated. PCGS is committing a lot of time and effort to fight them which is commendable and necessary. HOWEVER, this all becomes a moot point if the Chinese continue to advance and can strike U.S. coins that can fool the experts. I have not seen any of the super counterfeits yet but from what I have heard, it would not be shocking if some made it into top tier holders. Who will care if someone cuts the bands of a Merc dime if you can have one made to order from China. Isn't that a much bigger threat?

    These are both huge problems that need to be addressed but lets not let ourselves get too focused on the doctors when there are 2 big problems. >>



    Wow, I never thought of messing with the bands on a Merc, for someone with a bit of expertise that might easy to do and hard to detect.
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    The coin doctors are mostly in America. The counterfeiters are abroad and mostly anonymous. Fighting the latter to a scale similar to the PCGS movement on coin doctors would be implausible.
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    I think that PCGS is doing what they believe is in their best interest with this lawsuit - corporately the correct strategy
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin doctors are mostly in America. The counterfeiters are abroad and mostly anonymous. Fighting the latter to a scale similar to the PCGS movement on coin doctors would be implausible. >>



    More correctly, the U.S. is really the only place where coin doctors are viewed as a problem. In Europe it is much more common for people to do things to their coins and it is much more accepted. Whereas some people here view dipping as being a criminal offense, it is not the case over there. Remember the stigma for problem coins stems from our culture of having to have everything slabbed.

    As I said in my OP, the counterfeit problem is likely worse than we think and there is plenty of liability for PCGS when the fakes get into their holders.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe the same technology addresses both. --Jerry

    Agreed. Not that new technology is a final solution, but it's useful in both battles.

    BTW, NGC's new capability to do in-house "composition analysis" is similarly useful in both battles. I hope PCGS quickly follows suit.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

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