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Medal of Honor coin design - CCAC comments.

(The following statement was presented last Tuesday during the public CCAC meeting at U.S. Mint headquarters. It is presented as a reminder that CCAC members continue to explore every avenue to improve the quality and meaning of commemorative designs.)

Comment on the Medal of Honor Commemorative Coin Designs

The Medal of Honor is not about high officials and those with stars on their shoulders. It is about a celebration of those young men who gave selflessly, out of compassion and shared strength, for their comrades. To serve; to sacrifice. To know their actions were not a passing moment of courage, but an expression of deeply abiding values built on freedom and responsibility.

We list their accomplishments in sterile numbers and dry reports that flow through the chain of command. We measure them one against the other; each past against another equally fulfilled.

We speak of them in solemn words: Duty. Honor. Country. Service. Sacrifice. Heroism. We sometimes say these things as if all understand them in the way they are understood by those we honor. But do we really grasp the meaning of these values? Do we truly understand the nature of these virtues? Can we recognize the culmination of a life of character and commitment, expressed in the sacrifice of those so young?

Today, we are charged with showing present and future generations that, yes, we understand the meaning of these values. That we understand them not only as citizens forever indebted to those who wear the Medal of Honor; but we understand these values as they, themselves, do; and as do their comrades.

Our responsibility to these heroes transcends the ordinary, the commonplace, the literal. Our responsibility is to move this silver and gold token beyond a vision of events, and into a vision of the heroic spirit. An image of depth and inspiration; an image of Valor.

[Based on Remarks by the President at Presentation of the Medal of Honor to Sergeant First Class Jared C. Monti, September 17, 2009.]

Comments

  • EagleguyEagleguy Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow. Well Said. I sure hope they listen! These coins have some great design potential.

    JH
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162
    It would be very nice for this coin to be artistic enough to honor these folks the way they should be honored.
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486
    I've known two MH winners, but I would rather not have a Medal of Honor coin, the standard is too high and nothing the mint has produced in 50 years, IMHO, would make the cut.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Congress has passed the legislation for a 3-coin set. The Medal of Honor Society had a lot to do with the designs. They’ll be produced in 2011. The CCAC rejected all of the half dollar reverses, and approved the only dollar reverse that had any feeling or story to it.
  • razzlerazzle Posts: 981 ✭✭
    Anyone know if the proceeds from the sale of these is going toward some monument or tribute? Personally, I will buy whatever the mint makes commemorating Medal Of Honor winners.
    Markets (governments) can remain irrational longer than an investor can remain solvent.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Truly a worthwhile commemorative. I only hope the design can portray the spirit, courage, valor and glory due the recipients of this award, our country's highest commendation. Cheers, RickO
  • Who actually makes the final decision on which designs are produced? A lot of the legislation I have read seems to specify the Secretary of the Treasury for just about everything discretionary and rarely even mentions any Mint personnel. Does the Secretary actually make these decisions or does he delegate them to the Mint?
    Bob

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    The Secretary has the final decision, based on input from sponsors, interested organizations, the CCAC, CFA, Mint director, etc. So far, Sec Geitner seems to be following past precedent and going with sponsoring organizations' preferences. Safe but usually mediocre illustrations – the Boy Scout and WW-II Women flyers coins had much better designs recommended that those finally approved. (So...now we have saluting stick figures and a doe-eyed movie poster....no story, no adventure, no meaning.)

    Personally, I think the Director needs to change how artists’ designs are filtered before they get to the CFA or CAC. Also, the quantity and variety needs to be significantly larger. For now, I feel, as I stated in the CCAC meeting, that the CCAC is not seeing either the artists’ best work or a representative sample.
  • Thanks Roger. Whatever the problems are, I would really love to see a new era with coins created to rival the designs of Saint-Gaudens, Fraser, and Weinman (among others), but it seems "safe" is usually preferred by those in charge nowadays.
    Bob

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It infuriates me how art is ignored in favor of safe or PC designs..... NOTHING has ever been successfully designed by committee.... and coin designs go through multiple committees... each one diluting or eliminating the best of designs in favor of either the foregoing or an attempt at a 'personal' stamp. RWB, being as close as he is to this process, has stated that even at his point in the process, choices have been narrowed considerably. The dearth of art on coinage is perpetuated by this process. Cheers, RickO
  • RWB, I generally hold in high regard everything you say about the coin designs and love the history and passion you desire to see. But I have to tell you I love the WWII women flyers medal. I really like the way the obverse and reverse together do the intended job--at least for me. Like the other posters I do hope this set receives the treatment, art and consideration it deserves.
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I've known two MH winners, but I would rather not have a Medal of Honor coin, the standard is too high and nothing the mint has produced in 50 years, IMHO, would make the cut. >>


    Are you suggesting that we ask another mint or country to commemorate our Medal of Honor "winners"? This must be done by the mint of the United States who these brave people defended. As poorly as designs have been done in the past, the job still must be ours to be completed and not neglected. Those who "earned" the Medal of Honor should be asked for input, but their acts of heroism have been unique, no design could embrace all, but something must be done to honor these people.
    Paul
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    << <i>

    << <i>I've known two MH winners, but I would rather not have a Medal of Honor coin, the standard is too high and nothing the mint has produced in 50 years, IMHO, would make the cut. >>


    Are you suggesting that we ask another mint or country to commemorate our Medal of Honor "winners"? This must be done by the mint of the United States who these brave people defended. As poorly as designs have been done in the past, the job still must be ours to be completed and not neglected. Those who "earned" the Medal of Honor should be asked for input, but their acts of heroism have been unique, no design could embrace all, but something must be done to honor these people. >>



    The living MOH guy I knew would have pooh-poohed the idea of a coin to honor him, as self effacing a person as you would ever meet. He once told a stewardess on a plane, in answer to her question aboiut the "pretty ribbon," that it was for winning the First Marine Divisions volleyball championship. My point before was , as someone has pointed out, is that most of the designs of the last 50-60 years, IMHO, have been crap, and I don't think our mint is up to the challenge of creating something that isn't PC or "pleasing" to all involved in the design process. There is something to honor these guys, it's the American flag, and it also honors the people who in some cases surpassed the deeds of those recognized for their bravery, but weren't in the right place at the right time.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,901 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Are you suggesting that we ask another mint or country to commemorate our Medal of Honor "winners"? This must be done by the mint of the United States who these brave people defended. >>

    I think he's saying that until the US Mint can make a coin with a design worthy of commemorating those of have received the Medal of Honor, the coin shouldn't be made at all.
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    The articles JimDepot linked to seem well written and accurate – unusual these days.
  • I met a medal of Honor winner in Berlin Germany. He had his ribbons on wrong. A sergeant told me to inform him of this. I said sorry, not me. He then walked over and told the Medal of Honor winner of the wrong arrangement of ribbons. He just broke out laughing and said his wife must have put them on wrong. Funny thing was, she was an officer. He never changed one of the ribbons. As he approached me, I saluted him even though he was enlisted. For God's sake, he was supposed to be dead! A hero I tell you, a hero...and one of the nicest soldiers I ever met! Bring on the coins......
    Ilikacoinsawholebuncha
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for posting this, Roger.


    I know you are but one member of the committe, but since I have your ear here, I will once again state my main request:

    Please, PLEASE can we have sculpture instead of illustration. Our heroes deserve a work of ART, not a glorified video game token. We made coins in mass quantities with relief years ago, so I know it can be done...
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    I know you are but one member of the committee, but since I have your ear here, I will once again state my main request:

    Please, PLEASE can we have sculpture instead of illustration. Our heroes deserve a work of ART, not a glorified video game token. We made coins in mass quantities with relief years ago, so I know it can be done...


    I completely agree!

    I recall the CCAC meeting last June during the ANA Summer Seminar. The Boy Scout commemorative was the design being discussed, and we got a lot of really helpful and insightful comments and suggestions - many things that no one on the Committee or on the mint staff had thought of. After deliberation, the CCAC recommended a design showing an original scout extending a helping hand to a modern scout as both climbed a rocky peak. we also recommended extending relief and using textures and visual planes to enhance the image and improve its strength and meaning to scouts.

    The BSA folks insisted on an inane, trite, flat image of three scouts saluting, including a girl scout. Now, I appreciate the ladies and their contributions, but not on a Boy Scout commem, and not when the Girl Scouts will also be getting their own commem.

    Naturally, mediocrity and banality, expressed in a flat illustration, is what was finally approved.

    I feel like a broken record (…OK, ok…a CD on “laser lock”) because several members and I bring up the same things every meeting…..It is very frustrating, not only because of the repeated failures, but because this situation does not have to exist.

    Someplace between the artists in Philadelphia and the CCAC/CFA the life and beauty is being sucked out of coinage and medal design. Maybe there is a single artistic Vampire, or maybe it is a committee of Vampires feeding on creativity. Wherever or however it occurs, by the time CCAC/CFA see designs they are nearly all inanimate, eviscerated carcasses, with no trace of the Director’s vision or initiative.
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I know you are but one member of the committee, but since I have your ear here, I will once again state my main request:

    Please, PLEASE can we have sculpture instead of illustration. Our heroes deserve a work of ART, not a glorified video game token. We made coins in mass quantities with relief years ago, so I know it can be done...


    I completely agree!

    I recall the CCAC meeting last June during the ANA Summer Seminar. The Boy Scout commemorative was the design being discussed, and we got a lot of really helpful and insightful comments and suggestions - many things that no one on the Committee or on the mint staff had thought of. After deliberation, the CCAC recommended a design showing an original scout extending a helping hand to a modern scout as both climbed a rocky peak. we also recommended extending relief and using textures and visual planes to enhance the image and improve its strength and meaning to scouts.

    The BSA folks insisted on an inane, trite, flat image of three scouts saluting, including a girl scout. Now, I appreciate the ladies and their contributions, but not on a Boy Scout commem, and not when the Girl Scouts will also be getting their own commem.

    Naturally, mediocrity and banality, expressed in a flat illustration, is what was finally approved.

    I feel like a broken record (…OK, ok…a CD on “laser lock”) because several members and I bring up the same things very meeting…..It is very frustrating, not only because of the repeated failures, but because this situation does not have to exist.

    Someplace between the artists in Philadelphia and the CCAC/CFA the life and beauty is being sucked out of coinage and medal design. Maybe there is a single artistic Vampire, or maybe it is a committee of Vampires feeding on creativity. Wherever or however it occurs, by the time CCAC/CFA see designs they are nearly all inanimate, eviscerated carcasses, with no trace of the Director’s vision or initiative. >>




    One thing I've noticed is that when I see the proposed designs, they are drawings. I just saw your other post about the original Peace dollar design that was submitted, and it's a sculpture. I'm thinking that's part of the issue- maybe designs should be submitted as plaster models instead of flat drawings...
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    'Poor Quality' Coin Designs Lamented
    By Debbie Bradley, Numismatic News
    June 03, 2010

    The quality of coin designs presented recently by the U.S. Mint is being criticized by the Commission of Fine Arts and Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.

    “The issue of coin design quality is a real one and it needs to be addressed,” said Gary Marks, chairman of the CCAC. “The committee’s dissatisfaction was very apparent at the last meeting.”

    In recent weeks the CCAC and CFA have reviewed designs for two sets of commemorative coins proposed for issue in 2011, one for the Medal of Honor and one for the United States Army. For some coins, both groups were unable to find any design proposals acceptable.

    “We are getting pictorial decorative art,” said CCAC member Donald Scarinci. “We aren’t getting anything bold or inspiring or new or innovative. The only time those four words get used are in Director (Ed) Moy’s speeches. And the speeches have no bearing with reality.”

    In a letter addressed to Moy, the CFA expressed “overall disappointment with the poor quality” of the alternatives presented for the 2011 commemoratives.

    “...The quality of designs remains embarrassingly low, both in the often amateurish character of the artwork and in the generally poor compositions,” CFA secretary Tom Luebke wrote on behalf of the commission.

    The coins and medals should distill the subject to its essence, Luebke wrote, “rather than present a confusing collage of multiple elements.”

    Marks said the designs are more storyboard than allegorical and fail to use symbolism, which has always been a major device in portraying ideas in medallic art.

    Take, for example, the Saint-Gaudens $20 gold piece, Marks said. Meant to depict a young nation that is strong, he used symbolism rather than multiple images of people doing tasks.

    “Saint-Gaudens gave us an allegorical symbol of Liberty pictured as very strong, walking toward us as if coming into the future with some powerful allegorical symbols in her hands. It was that symbolism that made the design great. What we often see now is the storyboard approach.”

    Recent designs for a coin honoring the U.S. Army had images of people stacking sandbags, looking through a microscope and working in an Army command center.

    “Those are just not designs that are appropriate for a coin, particularly a small coin that is little more than an inch in diameter,” Marks said.

    The CFA concurred, noting that “the U.S. Mint should approach the design process as the creation of small pieces of sculpture to be held in the hand.”

    Luebke questioned how much the Mint participates in the formulation of the actual narratives that are adopted by Congress in the coin and medal authorization process.

    “In some cases it may be the narratives themselves that are too restrictive and complicated that lead to these overwrought compositions,” Luebke said.

    Just don’t blame the artists for the designs presented for consideration, Scarinci said, calling them probably the most talented group of artists at the Mint since the turn of the (20th) century.

    “What’s frustrating me is I know what these artists are capable of and I know what they’ve done,” Scarinci said, naming artists including John Mercanti, Don Everhart, Joe Mena and Phoebe Hemphill.

    “I agree with Donald,” Marks said. “This isn’t about the skill or ability of our artists. This is about the process that produces these designs. But I’m not going to point a finger. We are all in this together and need to find a solution together.”

    Director Ed Moy said he’s ready to make that happen.

    “While we have wonderful artists on staff, and have brought in outside ideas via the Artistic Infusion Program, we know we can do better,” Moy said. “I have laid out a vision, and we are working to make sure that the right infrastructure and resources are in place to nurture creativity along.”

    But Scarinci is not convinced.

    “The fact that the CFA and the CCAC only rarely see great coin and medal designs is not the fault of John Mercanti or the artists who work with him,” Scarinci said. “The fault, unfortunately, is with the Director himself. The standard of excellence that Director Moy set for himself and his staff in 2007 (at the FIDEM convention) is the standard that history will use to judge his directorship.

    “By his own standard, Ed Moy has failed.”

    But beauty can’t be forced, Moy said.

    “The only American renaissance of coin design occurred because of a committed President and one of the best artists our country has ever had,” Moy said. “Absent that, beauty cannot be forced to happen nor created by a recipe book.

    “I’m also in the process of contracting for the services of expertise in arts management to further cultivate artistic excellence, to help lay the foundation for the Mint and inspire some breakthroughs.”

    The process followed to produce the designs may be part of the problem, Marks said.

    “We’re at the end of the process and are presented finished designs and asked to recommend them,” Marks said. “We need more of a dialogue and to be in touch with each other so the product at the end can be something people are excited about.

    “I don’t want just good. I want outstanding and exceptional,” Marks said. “Other nations are doing it, and I feel we can, too. And we will get there.”

    But that won’t happen without drastic changes, Scarinci said.

    “I think it is long overdue for the President to replace the Director, and thereby replace the senior staff,” Scarinci said.

    The Mint is being run as a manufacturing facility by public employees “obsessed with deadlines, marketing concerns and a passion to avoid controversy and public discord,” Scarinci said. “The art that comes from the sculptors is mere decoration, and the input by the CFA and the CCAC is not sought, but tolerated because Congress requires it by law.”

    Luebke noted that a study of design decisions for coins and medals over the past five years showed that the choice the Mint made was consistent with CFA recommendations slightly less than half the time.

    Numismaster Link
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    “We are getting pictorial decorative art,” said CCAC member Donald Scarinci. “We aren’t getting anything bold or inspiring or new or innovative. The only time those four words get used are in Director (Ed) Moy’s speeches. And the speeches have no bearing with reality.”



    “...The quality of designs remains embarrassingly low, both in the often amateurish character of the artwork and in the generally poor compositions,” CFA secretary Tom Luebke wrote on behalf of the commission.

    The coins and medals should distill the subject to its essence, Luebke wrote, “rather than present a confusing collage of multiple elements.”

    Marks said the designs are more storyboard than allegorical and fail to use symbolism, which has always been a major device in portraying ideas in medallic art.

    .



    The CFA concurred, noting that “the U.S. Mint should approach the design process as the creation of small pieces of sculpture to be held in the hand.”




    .

    “The only American renaissance of coin design occurred because of a committed President and one of the best artists our country has ever had,” Moy said. “Absent that, beauty cannot be forced to happen nor created by a recipe book.



    “I think it is long overdue for the President to replace the Director, and thereby replace the senior staff,” Scarinci said.

    The Mint is being run as a manufacturing facility by public employees “obsessed with deadlines, marketing concerns and a passion to avoid controversy and public discord,” Scarinci said. “The art that comes from the sculptors is mere decoration, and the input by the CFA and the CCAC is not sought, but tolerated because Congress requires it by law.”



    image Amen.

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