US money supply plunges at 1930s pace as Obama eyes fresh stimulus

ksammut

US money supply plunges at 1930s pace as Obama eyes fresh stimulus

MsMorrisine

tweedle dum doesn't know what tweedle dee is doing and vice versa.

ksammut

Plus our national debt hit the $13 trillion mark today.

storm888

My plan:

Have lots of "worthless" cash, and keep it at the ready.

roadrunner

Just what is the "real" money supply today? There are 2 different monetary systems in operation today: the real banking system where you have M1 (ie cash currencies) and the shadow banking system which consists of credit, debt, derivatives, M3, and other nebulous entities. And while the technical M3 money supply has dropped by around $1.5 TRILL (-10%) since it's peak in 2009 how many TRILLIONs have been pumped into the shadow banking system over the past 1-1/2 years?

Have lots of "worthless" cash, and keep it at the ready.

If given the choice of $1 MILL in gold or $1 MILL in FRN's that will be delivered to you tax-free one year from today which would you choose? The choice must be made today or your forfeit the opportunity. Same choice.....but 5 yrs from today.

roadrunner

jmski52

"The plunge in M3 has no precedent since the Great Depression. The dominant reason for this is that regulators across the world are pressing banks to raise capital asset ratios and to shrink their risk assets.

So, in a nutshell - taxpayers are funding all of the banking mistakes and the banks suffer no consequences for their mismanagement/theft/bonuses/poor lending policies.

Big Banks + Big Government = Big Trouble

Of course, I could be wrong. Someone please tell me that I'm wrong.

johnny9434

were headed for something that isint really all that good , i dont see obummer getting another election. pelosi and reid can elope for all i care

storm888

"...If given the choice of $1 MILL in gold or $1 MILL in FRN's that will be delivered to you tax-free one year from today which would you choose? The choice must be made today or your forfeit the opportunity. Same choice.....but 5 yrs from today...."

//////////////////////////////////////////////


One Year:

I'll take the cash.


Five Years:

My bias is still toward the cash, BUT it is a MUCH tougher choice.

If the socialist policies of the world continue to expand until 2017,
the gold is prolly a safer choice. If those policies are reversed by
2013, the cash is likely a fairly safe choice, but the risk-adjusted
odds are hard to calculate.

If gold goes below $500, I would lose half of the value of my gift
if I chose the metal.

If gold goes above $2500, I would lose at least half of the value
of my gift if I chose the cash.

Decisions, decisions.

..........

If world govts stopped spending money today, the long path to recovery
could begin. They won't.

In the US, by the end of 2011, about 20% of the money circulating downward
will be doled by govt. More deficits, more debts.

The $13-TRILLION number is, obviously, fake. The better number is closer
to 10-times+ that. It could be 100-times that, depending on how much debt
is assumed to bailout private/public pensions - and other obligations - during
the next 24-months.

BUT, printing money - forcing metal-price hikes - is not the only gun in the
criminals' arsenal.

A mandatory 401k "swap" is on the horizon; before 2012. Junk paper for
valuable paper - if used to pay down debt - would buy lots of time.

For more than 20-years, exec-orders have been in place - and are now
being expanded - that will allow the sale of real property owned by the US
to ANY entity. Additional condemnations/confiscations, would add to the
saleable inventory. Again, lots of time could be purchased, and lots of debts
paid down.

The gold alleged to be held by the US, if sold today, would prolly just about
pay off the $13-TRILLION; might even be a little left over.

Since there are so many ways for a corrupt system to pay its debts, the
risk of hyperinflation is prolly waaaaay overstated. This does not support
some of the most "optimistic" claims of future metal values.

.................................

DrBuster

I'll take the gold, free, at both 1 and 5 year. Can always sell the gold for whatever the best currency is at the time of delivery, or sit on it for another 30 years provided the zombies don't attack.

Million bucks cash could be Zimbabwe dollars in 5 years...or 1.

The 401k 'nationalization' does scare me. Mine was emptied years ago as I went freelance and used it to survive for a couple years....haven't gotten another one since.

mhammerman

Every payday for the last four months, I have been salting away some cash. I went to the bank and asked for $100 in 5's and $100 in 10's. They gave them to me but I had to sign a little receipt, like I was getting some kind of controlled substance or something. After the second round of this and having to sign a receipt again, I've just been just pulling them out of my change from 20's. It's strange, I can ask for $500 in 20's and bens and no one even bats an eye but reach for their change and they put the cameras on you.

Got Cash?

ebaytrader

<< <i>...Obama eyes fresh stimulus >>



There's no evidence that a govt stimulus has EVER lifted a large economy. i In this case, if anything, it's a DRAG on the economy. It didn't work the first time. It won't work this time.

Larry Summers knows better than this.

DrBuster

<< <i>Every payday for the last four months, I have been salting away some cash. I went to the bank and asked for $100 in 5's and $100 in 10's. They gave them to me but I had to sign a little receipt, like I was getting some kind of controlled substance or something. After the second round of this and having to sign a receipt again, I've just been just pulling them out of my change from 20's. It's strange, I can ask for $500 in 20's and bens and no one even bats an eye but reach for their change and they put the cameras on you.

Got Cash? >>



Change for crack rocks usually isn't in anything over $20s

PerryHall

<< <i>They gave them to me but I had to sign a little receipt, like I was getting some kind of controlled substance or something. >>



Did you ask them why you had to sign a receipt?

mhammerman

Yes, if I recall correctly it was to signify that I had received them.

fishcooker

Maybe it is easier to make an error if more bills are involved.

Robb

<< <i>Every payday for the last four months, I have been salting away some cash. I went to the bank and asked for $100 in 5's and $100 in 10's. They gave them to me but I had to sign a little receipt, like I was getting some kind of controlled substance or something. After the second round of this and having to sign a receipt again, I've just been just pulling them out of my change from 20's. It's strange, I can ask for $500 in 20's and bens and no one even bats an eye but reach for their change and they put the cameras on you.

Got Cash? >>



It has to do with two things: They don't have a vault teller (either on duty or not at all) and they have a policy that treats all customers as if they were "internal customers". In short, you are basically providing an auditing service that an employee was once responsible for.

gsa1fan

Yes, I went to my bank cash a $400 personal check. Banking there 17 years. The teller at drive through been working there as long as I been banking there.

I drive up she say's "Hi Tim". I shoot my check in the tube she gets it then says, " I need your drivers license or debit card for security so I can cash your check.

I got so pissed off I damn near EXPLODED! I should have just went to the ATM in next lane or to Walmart!

My own frigging bank~AaaaaW!

gecko109

"The gold alleged to be held by the US, if sold today, would prolly just about
pay off the $13-TRILLION; might even be a little left over."


If you are talking about the gold the U.S. government allegedly controls, then you are way off Storm. Its widely published that we hold 8,000 tons of gold (#1 in the world). 8,000 tons is 16 million pounds, and at about 14.5 troy oz /lb, that is 232,000,000 troy oz. At a gold price of $1200, that is just $278 billion worth of gold, or to put it more succinctly, just 2% of our national debt stated at 13 trillion. If thats not a strong case for the POG still being in its infancy, I dont know what is!

renman95

<< <i>"The plunge in M3 has no precedent since the Great Depression. The dominant reason for this is that regulators across the world are pressing banks to raise capital asset ratios and to shrink their risk assets.

So, in a nutshell - taxpayers are funding all of the banking mistakes and the banks suffer no consequences for their mismanagement/theft/bonuses/poor lending policies.

Big Banks + Big Government = Big Trouble

Of course, I could be wrong. Someone please tell me that I'm wrong. >>



Sorry to disappoint you comrade, you are correct. It's time to tighten those lap belts one more time.

DrBuster

<< <i>"The gold alleged to be held by the US, if sold today, would prolly just about
pay off the $13-TRILLION; might even be a little left over."


If you are talking about the gold the U.S. government allegedly controls, then you are way off Storm. Its widely published that we hold 8,000 tons of gold (#1 in the world). 8,000 tons is 16 million pounds, and at about 14.5 troy oz /lb, that is 232,000,000 troy oz. At a gold price of $1200, that is just $278 billion worth of gold, or to put it more succinctly, just 2% of our national debt stated at 13 trillion. If thats not a strong case for the POG still being in its infancy, I dont know what is! >>



I'd have to agree with that (crappy) number, based on what we're privy to.

We could shut down everything but 50% current military spending and do some damage on the debt, but it would require 4 years....and the hands-out folks wouldn't have it. Ireland put the balls to the wall and did some good, can we do that here? I seriously doubt it.

storm888

<< <i>"The gold alleged to be held by the US, if sold today, would prolly just about
pay off the $13-TRILLION; might even be a little left over."


If you are talking about the gold the U.S. government allegedly controls, then you are way off Storm. Its widely published that we hold 8,000 tons of gold (#1 in the world). 8,000 tons is 16 million pounds, and at about 14.5 troy oz /lb, that is 232,000,000 troy oz. At a gold price of $1200, that is just $278 billion worth of gold, or to put it more succinctly, just 2% of our national debt stated at 13 trillion. If thats not a strong case for the POG still being in its infancy, I dont know what is! >>




///////////////////////////


Yup.

Don't know how the machine came up with that number.

The highest claim I can find is about 300,000,000 ounces.

$360,000,000,000.00


............

Whatever the correct number is, I don't believe it - alone - means
that the POG is in its "infancy."

There are just too many ways to raise cash w/o having to print
Zimbabwe style.

Americans - all of them - will be driven into poverty long before
any regime allows the USD to totally collapse. Property confiscation,
super-taxation, and sale of public-assets are much more likely than
hyperinflation.

..............

mhammerman

"...and the hands-out folks wouldn't have it."

Interesting that there is a fair amount of the fed talk about taxing those working with even more taxes, particularly those that are doing well, but very little legislative discussion about not handing out as much to those that are doing nothing. What is beyond interesting is how strongly polarized the different camps are becoming. It's looking like a study in class warfare about class welfare...doubtful that this will remain a static line for long.

Got Cash?

storm888

Today, the Sec State said that rich folks - that means most of US -
don't pay our fair share of taxes. She said that Brazil has a better
tax model than does the USA. (Anybody been to Brazil? rotfl)

Almost half of Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax. Since I am not
in that group, I am pretty sure I must be paying my share AND the
share of some parasites.

Bear

Clearly, something is very wrong with the economic plan,

when half the people can't pay any taxes. Either we find

a way to bring the good jobs back home ,or we will all be flipping

hamburgers or become Walmart greeters in 10 years.

I do not want cheap goods from China, if

it means the end of our American way of life.Perhaps, it is already

to late.

ksammut

<< <i>Today, the Sec State said that rich folks - that means most of US -
don't pay our fair share of taxes. She said that Brazil has a better
tax model than does the USA. (Anybody been to Brazil? rotfl)

Almost half of Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax. Since I am not
in that group, I am pretty sure I must be paying my share AND the
share of some parasites. >>



A percentage of those that do not pay any federal taxes also receive a several thousand dollar "refund" when they do their taxes thanks to the different credits that have been created. Our government has taken away the incentive to work hard for both the poor and the wealthy.

For the poor, the handouts give them a reason not to want to work hard while at the same time many are not raising their children to study and prepare themselves for something better in life. For the wealthy or those who want to become wealthy, its seeing 50% or more of their hard earned money going to taxes. It is only going to get worse. Taxes can be raised on the wealthy, middle class, and even on the poor but it would only make a small dent in paying off our debt. And this does not include the debt facing social security, medicare, and the prescription plan.

Cities, states, pensions, etc. will begin to go bankrupt. Slashing and cutting will be the only way to bring debt in line. Politicians will be slow to even consider the slashing and cutting that will be needed. The more time they waste in doing what needs to be done only makes things worse. In years past, and upturn in the economy delayed the inevitable. This time around, with a lower tax base, a huge increase in our national debt over a short period of time, underfunded pension plans, baby boomers close to retirement, etc., we are in for some very rough times.

gecko109

<< <i>Today, the Sec State said that rich folks - that means most of US -
don't pay our fair share of taxes. She said that Brazil has a better
tax model than does the USA. (Anybody been to Brazil? rotfl)

Almost half of Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax. Since I am not
in that group, I am pretty sure I must be paying my share AND the
share of some parasites. >>




Funny how the powers that be cant see that THIS is the REAL problem! Stop the freakin handouts.....lets start with something like....ummmm...hey, how about those "free" cellphones? Food and shelter.....thats all someone who doesnt want to work should get....and be lucky enough to even get that much!

RedHerring

<< <i>Almost half of Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax. >>



Not even close to half of Americans paid Fed income-tax in 2009. 47% of Americans IN THE WORKFORCE paid ZERO Fed income-tax in 2009!

With a U.S. population of roughly 305 million and about 150 million in the workforce, that means 70 million Americans paid Fed income-tax in 2009 or 23%!

For every 1 U.S. citizen who paid Fed taxes last year, there are 3 along for the ride! Many are children and senior citizens of course but the reality is scary.

storm888

<< <i>

<< <i>Almost half of Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax. >>



Not even close to half of Americans paid Fed income-tax in 2009. 47% of Americans IN THE WORKFORCE paid ZERO Fed income-tax in 2009!

With a U.S. population of roughly 305 million and about 150 million in the workforce, that means 70 million Americans paid Fed income-tax in 2009 or 23%!

For every 1 U.S. citizen who paid Fed taxes last year, there are 3 along for the ride! Many are children and senior citizens of course but the reality is scary.

>>



////////////////////////////////////


Yup.

The better phrase is: "Almost half of working/earning Americans pay ZERO Fed income-tax."



As noted elsewhere, the Earned Income Credit is a
big part of the imbalance.

BBN

Felonois politics is now running the country.