Gray sheet and TPG type coins
Teva
Posts: 830 ✭
Let me start by saying I am not a dealer just a collector.
About four times a year I set up at a local show to turn over
my upgrades and impulse buys coins that did not grade as well as I thought they would that kinda of thing. I see this guy coming a mile away he has two fanny packs three loops hanging around his neck and two years of gray sheets stuffed in a folder under his arm.
He sits down at my table and ask to see some of my best stuff
all priced for the show. He starts pulling out his sheets and offering me stupid money for my coins so I tell him good luck buying
TPG type coins with that gray sheet but I have nothing at my table that I will discount and it is all priced. At this point he got up and left my table and promptly went to the next table were his offers were again rejected. Can you really expect to buy nice TPG type coins for
gray sheet? Maybe moderns at the wholesale table?
I do not get insulted but I am on a learning curve here so am I right or wrong??
About four times a year I set up at a local show to turn over
my upgrades and impulse buys coins that did not grade as well as I thought they would that kinda of thing. I see this guy coming a mile away he has two fanny packs three loops hanging around his neck and two years of gray sheets stuffed in a folder under his arm.
He sits down at my table and ask to see some of my best stuff
all priced for the show. He starts pulling out his sheets and offering me stupid money for my coins so I tell him good luck buying
TPG type coins with that gray sheet but I have nothing at my table that I will discount and it is all priced. At this point he got up and left my table and promptly went to the next table were his offers were again rejected. Can you really expect to buy nice TPG type coins for
gray sheet? Maybe moderns at the wholesale table?
I do not get insulted but I am on a learning curve here so am I right or wrong??
Give the laziest man the toughest job and he will find the easiest way to get it done.
0
Comments
My take on the current market is that really rare and expensive stuff is still selling while the common stuff that many middle class collectors buy is languishing. In this type of market, Gray Sheet is the best you can get for a lot of that collector stuff, and there are dealers out there who will sell it for those prices. Of course those dealers are paying less than Gray Sheet, sometimes as much as 30% below bid.
When I got into the coin business 15 years ago as a dealer, a veteran dealer told me that the Gray Sheet was the selling price for a lot material. In general he was correct about run of the mill “stuff.” Some coins, like rolls of full date Buffalo nickels sell for much less than bid. And it’s hard to get “bid” for modern commemorative gold coins.
I made my living filling want lists and selling coins with good to great eye appeal. I tried to avoid the lower end material. If you are selling average to lower end coins, I’m not surprised that you are getting resistance to your prices. Everyone who subscribes to the Gray Sheet these days seems to think that that entitles them to buy at those prices. They also think that dealers should PAY them those prices. Anyone with half a brain knows that is not possible.
The main coins that sell for more than bid are most NICE early U.S. coins, and all of the copper coins up until the 1857 large cents and half cents. You can also coins that are high for the grade and coins that are rare in high grade. Some of the Gray Sheet prices for that type of material are dealers’ “wish lists.” If they want to play that levels, they have to pay strong prices.
[QCan you really expect to buy nice TPG type coins for gray sheet?] >>
It depends. I buy a lot coins, raw and slabbed, for around sheet prices. It takes some hunting. Like Bill said, some of these guys bought them well back of Bid and have room. Others want to turn inventory. Guys that have average and even above average coins at retail+ prices tend to own them for a LONG time.
<< <i>The main coins that sell for more than bid are most NICE early U.S. coins, and all of the copper coins up until the 1857 large cents and half cents. You can also coins that are high for the grade and coins that are rare in high grade. Some of the Gray Sheet prices for that type of material are dealers’ “wish lists.” If they want to play that levels, they have to pay strong prices. >>
That is what I am talking about strong coins no low end stuff and all TPG mostly MS stuff with exception of a few key dates. Maybe I should of mentioned
that it is all early or rare copper and indian heads and a few early red wheats.
<< <i>That is what I am talking about strong coins no low end stuff and all TPG mostly MS stuff with exception of a few key dates. Maybe I should of mentioned
that it is all early or rare copper and indian heads and a few early red wheats. >>
I do understand your problem. Respectfully submitted are some of the possibilities that are contributing to the problem:
(1) It could be that a local show would not have buyers for this type of material.
(2) It could be that setting up at only 4 shows a year has not given you enough exposure to the collectors who collect this type of material, nor the dealers who buy it.
(3) It could be that you are pricing your coins based on recent sales such as Holmes and Husak and failing to remember that these name sales usually result in significantly higher prices, but just for the coins in those sales.
Some things that might help you figure it out:
Other than the one person you mentioned, did anyone look at your coins; i.e., did you take any of them out of the case for customers to examine? Were any of the people carrying a copy of CQR or Penny Prices? Have you tried to sell any of the coins to dealers who specialize in this area?
Hope this helps.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
In my opinion, a dealer ought not be operating this way.
I try to buy nice stuff and I can never buy for gray sheet not even close. Just take a look at the PCGS price guide and compare it to gray sheet and its like your on another planet. I am just trying to learn how to use the gray sheet for my collecting as I buy alot more than I sell and I have expensive tastes.
<< <i>I am just trying to learn how to use the gray sheet for my collecting as I buy alot more than I sell and I have expensive tastes. >>
The Gray Sheet prices are mostly for "stuff." They are not for coins that are truly scarce and popular.
As for selling at retail, you have to work at it a lot harder. Four shows a year is not going to get you the publicity you need to be a retail dealer. If you are copper guy, look at the number shows that Reynolds and Victor-McCawley do every year. Look at the number of major auctions they attend. You can’t build businesses like they have without a lot of effort.
If its within 20% I think your very reasonable in your asking prices...
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The Gray Sheet prices are mostly for "stuff." They are not for coins that are truly scarce and popular. >>
Thats what I am getting out of this conversation. If you have ten of the same coin on the shelf you use gray sheet if you have only one coin and its rare
the market will find its own level and the gray sheet becomes only a starting point. I am in my mid fiftys and when I grow up I may want to be a partime dealer. I do those four shows a year to turn coins out of my collection and not give them up at wholesale and I do pretty good by that I mean I don't lose money don't make any and if I do I spend it but for me its part of the hobbie.