A ticked off coin dealer
Bigrig52
Posts: 677
I went into a local coin shop today and there was a guy selling a bunch of wheat cents and the dealer offered him 2 1/2 cents a peice.The guy said no to the dealer and started to walk out so i ask the guy selling them how much he wanted for them,he must have been pissed off because he just kept on walking out the door.The dealer got ticked off at me for asking the guy how much he wanted for them and ask me to leave..I don't think i did anything wrong for asking the guy since the dealer would not go higher on the price.
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RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Period.
<< <i>I would have thrown you out of our shop if you tried to do something like that. Your name is not on our business license. You do not contribute to the rent or the overhead. You do not try to do business in another man's store.
Period. >>
I agree with this 100%.
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The Reeded Edge
<< <i>I would have thrown you out of our shop if you tried to do something like that. Your name is not on our business license. You do not contribute to the rent or the overhead. You do not try to do business in another man's store.
Period. >>
I agree. It may not seem like it at first blush, but it is insulting to dealers. It is also poor form to do something similar at a coin show.
-Paul
<< <i>he wanted for them,he must have been pissed off because he just kept on walking out the door.The dealer got ticked off at me... >>
You think the dealer was ticked off at you? It's a good thing the seller didn't offer the coins to you before he left the store, I'd say.
P.S. I bought a coin off a poster on this thread, he had a price , I made an offer, he could have took it as an insult or took at it a legit offer. You have all kinds out there, after the 1913 nickel last sold, I was working at my buddies shop helping him out and a guy walked in with a 1908 V-nick and I offer a fair price for ag-g and they guy called me a crook, stormed out, ran into the dooe (magnetic lock,LOL) called me a crook and asked me to buzz him out.
That's what I was thinking......
WTB: Barber Quarters XF
<< <i>You breached an unwritten aspect of customer-dealer etiquette by attempting to conduct your own transaction in the dealer's place of business. The fact that 'round 1' did not result in a successful purchase does not mean that the dealer would not have been ultimately successful (after more negotiations). The dealer clearly felt that you were attempting to undercut him. >>
From the description it sounded like the OP asked the price question while he was still in the dealer's shop. If that was the case then the above answer is correct...it is extremely bad etiquette to attempt to conduct business in the shop without the permission of the shop owner.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I would not be too happy if somebody tried to conduct business in my place of business.
I made that mistake once by accident of course.
You did nothing wrong.
Neither did I, that time I set up a little fruit stand within my neighborhood grocery store. Hey, the customers were passing on the store's offer to sell them some avocados, I was just asking them what they'd be willing to pay for an avocado. The customers ignored me! I was surprised when the produce manager asked me to leave. And he was kind of rude about it, too, now that I think about it!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
now he lost you as a customer as well.
<< <i>You have all kinds out there, after the 1913 nickel last sold, I was working at my buddies shop helping him out and a guy walked in with a 1908 V-nick and I offer a fair price for ag-g and they guy called me a crook, stormed out, ran into the dooe (magnetic lock,LOL) called me a crook and asked me to buzz him out. >>
His 1908 should be more valuable since it's 5 years older than the 1913. Everyone knows that the older a coin is the more valuable it must be.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I would have thrown you out of our shop if you tried to do something like that. Your name is not on our business license. You do not contribute to the rent or the overhead. You do not try to do business in another man's store.
Period. >>
Come on, Tom. Don't hold back on us. Tell us how you really feel.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
i couldnt believe this clown , both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !!
he store owner could have handled it better IMO now he lost you as a customer as well.
I agree, I wouldn't go back ever. We are talking wheat cents.
I understand, it is his place of business and it would have been better to buy them outside or pass altogether.
It isn't like you said you would pay 4 cents after he offered 2.5 cents! Or he was buying a really nice coin, he could of made some money on and you tried to outbid him.
<< <i>I would wait a few days before going back ,First start off with the apology that you didnt mean ill harm to him or his place of business then explaining that ( if it is true) you wasnt interested in buying but wondering what the seller thought the coins were worth. They may or may not accept your apology ( and maybe some of you would say just cut your losses and walk away right now) but I would make that effort to apologize if i really didnt mean ill harm . If its a dealer youve been going to for years they should know how you are and your intentions so even if you broke a unwritten rule they might have been having justa bad day. Cant hurt in my book. If after that and they ask you to leave again then I would look for a new dealer. >>
I like atarian's answer.
show promoters will kick you out of a show if they catch you making deals in the isle. I've purchased from collectors at dealers tables who passed on the deal. Easy solution, ask the dealer what he wants for you to make the purchase at his table and everyone is happy. Never had a problem with this solution.
I would do the same thing!
What you did is a major NO NO!
You do not do business in someone elses place of business and that includes the parking lot !!!!!
<< <i>I would have thrown you out of our shop if you tried to do something like that. Your name is not on our business license. You do not contribute to the rent or the overhead. You do not try to do business in another man's store.
Period. >>
I agree with this. To add, this is also not acceptable at coin shows. Generally you'd be asked to leave.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>I agree with this. To add, this is also not acceptable at coin shows. Generally you'd be asked to leave. >>
I wanted to interact really badly at a show when a dealers helper was telling a collector that NCC was bought by PCGS... hence NCC's Morgan grades equaled PCGS.
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree with this. To add, this is also not acceptable at coin shows. Generally you'd be asked to leave. >>
I wanted to interact really badly at a show when a dealers helper was telling a collector that NCC was bought by PCGS... hence NCC's Morgan grades equaled PCGS.
Nothing quite like watching some dealer's nose grow while they talk to a pigeon ... er ... customer.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Not many dealers really want to buy junk wheat cents anyway. If it had been a bullion sale, it would have been worse. At any rate, I am sure you learned your lesson and now understand why that sort of thing is taboo.
My Early Large Cents
As far as I'm concerned, unquestionably fraudulent representations by a dealer void your obligation to keep your nose out of his business. I'd have spoken up, and I would encourage you to do the same if it ever happens again.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>just as bad, a local coin club wanted to put there coin club flyer in are coin shop, we let them put some on the counter, now another club wants to do the same, the guy from the first club was in are store when a customer was buying morgans he told him about there coin club and that they had a auction with morgans in it ..
i couldnt believe this clown , both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !! >>
their coin club flyer in our shop
clubbed
................
So did the guy not buy any Morgans from you? Kinda overreactionary on your part IMO.
<< <i>......both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !! >>
I hope the many coin club members find out how you feel about them and boycott your store.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Speaks volumes about ones Integrity.
Buy the way Integrity is doing what is right all the time.
Not just if someone can hear or see!
<< <i>the dealer will have to get over it. i would ask the seller next time when the dealer is out of ear shot next time. its bummer when it works out like that with the hurt feelings and all >>
I don't understand this response. Get over it...do it out of ear shot...really? You are in HIS place of business. he pays the rent, light bill, salaries of his employees. Any business owner would run you right out the door for trying to steal their business right on their own premises, not just coin dealers. That customer will earn the right to offer to pay whatever he wants to when he takes the risks of opening his own business. And don't for one minute think there aren't a lot of risks. You put your family at financial risk...what if business isn't as good as you think it's going to be. You put yourself at risk of bodily harm...we've all heard about coin dealer that have been shot/killed in their stores.....You get the idea. Really, the potential "buyer" should pull their head out of their arse next time they walk into anyones place of business.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>In my experience, if dealers spent more energy cultivating positive relationships with customers and less time protecting their God Given Turf, they'd do a lot better. >>
Maybe they would- who knows? I suppose one could open one's own store and show the crappy dealers how it's done, right?
Anyway, dealers have every right to run their businesses however they see fit. Customers have every right to take their business elsewhere if they disagree with how those dealers run their stores, but what they don't have a right to is making deals with the store owner's customers without the store owner's approval. Even if the dealer is a jerk.
<< <i>You were so wrong
I would do the same thing!
What you did is a major NO NO!
You do not do business in someone elses place of business and that includes the parking lot !!!!! >>
<< <i>
<< <i>......both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !! >>
I hope the many coin club members find out how you feel about them and boycott your store. >>
Just curious...how is this any different than having someone say "I can sell you Morgans cheaper" to the customer in question? That's basically what the club guy did. He was soliciting the club's Morgans in the guy's store, to a customer who was buying Morgans from him at the time. I'd be mad too.
This thread is actually a huge coincidence. I started a thread on the ebay boards back on the 11th about something very similar where a guy not only solicited someone in our store, he gave the guy his name and number and told him to call him because he was interested in the stuff the guy just inherited...my reaction was a bit stronger than OP's dealer. Maybe I wasn't all that tactful, but a) I was seeing red and b)why be tactful when the goal is to get someone to leave and not come back?
LINK
Text below for those not wanting to follow the link:
Here's the short (well, kinda short...OK, not so short) version of events. In the interest of fairness I present them as close to verbatim as possible-other person's responses are in italics:
I am dealing with this guy...we'll call him customer "A", a guy who comes in perhaps 3-4 times a year max. He was looking for a couple Buffaloes this time, but what we had, as normal with this guy, is either "too nice", "not nice enough", or "more than (he) wanted to spend". Translation: he almost always manages to find a way not to buy something. OK, whatever. I'm used to it. He's pretty well done and just nosing around at this point.
In walks customer "B", who just inherited some coins and brought in a couple of samples...Whitman folders with some silver coins, etc, and was seeking advice at this point on possibly getting things organized, picking up a Redbook and likely having us evaluate the stuff at some point. Customer "A" immediately takes great interest in my conversation with customer "B" and inches towards us, but at this point says nothing.
In strolls customer "C"... I am doing a solo act today so I briefly excuse myself with "B" and acknowledge customer "C", who needs something quick and easy. As I take care of "C", customer "A" sidles up to customer "B", starts chatting him up, opens up "B" 's album, paws through the stuff and proceeds to take out a piece of paper and write down his name and phone number, giving same to "B" and telling him in a suddenly quiet voice to call him.
"C", now taken care of by me, leaves.
I come back intending to resume talking to "B" about what he has and how we can help him, but "B" quickly turns to me, says "thanks, I'll get back with you", or something to that effect, excuses himself and leaves within about 15 seconds, without even having bought the Redbook he was intending to purchase. I'm puzzled as we hadn't really discussed much yet- but then again, not REALLY puzzled, as I had heard enough of their convo to know what just transpired....and inside my head I hear a little "snap"...
This leaves me and customer "A", who now has the guilty look of a kid who just got caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar.
I asked him..."Did you just do what I think you did?"
"What's that?"
"Did you just solicit that guy- in OUR store?"
"Not exactly"
"Didn't you just give him your name and number?"
"Uh...yes."
"Told him to call you and said you're interested in buying it?"
"Uh-well-yuh."
"That's what I thought. You were trying to solicit a customer. You just ran head first into my biggest pet peeve. I was talking to him, trying to help him out, you went over, butted in and YOU want to try to muscle in and buy the deal? Oh heck no! Well, I can't control whether you buy THAT deal, but you (darn) sure aren't ever going to buy anything HERE again. Leave."
(snotty tone)"Well, he never actually said he was selling to you..."
"I don't give a (poop) whether he was selling or not. I don't care what he wanted to do, it was none of your (darn) business. Last time I checked, it's our name on the door, not yours. We pay rent and overhead here, not you...he came in to talk to us, not you, with some expectation of privacy I might add... and I don't exist to supply you with a place to hang out and try to score deals with MY customers."
Well, I'm a customer too, I do a lot of business here..."
"Really? You mean like today? All of 2 or 3 times a year you come in, look through everything, waste a bunch of time and don't buy anything...I could have every (bleeping) thing on your want list and you could still find a reason not to buy it...and when you do buy something it's only when you think it's too cheap. And you've got the nerve to pull something like this on top of it all? Trust me, I'm willing to make the sacrifice. Now get out and don't come back. We're done." (This was followed by my best "I dare you to say one more word" face. Ha!
Customer "A" sizes me up for a second (at this point I should note that I am 6-5, 205, which doesn't hurt in such instances )... and then leaves, mumbling something under his breath as he departs. I didn't catch it all, but the f-word was involved. There was a time when I'd have considered following him outside, but I just kept staring as he left.
Our USPS guy came in a few minutes later and asked me why I was all red in the face...
So, my friends, in the interest of making this an educational experience, for myself if nothing else, or perhaps just some entertainment for all of you... here are my questions to you, as impartial "observers" of this altercation, which I have described essentially verbatim...
1. Was Customer "A" wrong to do what he did, or was it not a big deal in your eyes?
2. Was my response appropriate? Inappropriate? Harsh? Not harsh enough?
3. What are your thoughts about Customer "B"?
4. What, if anything, would YOU do differently if you were in my place?
5. What, if anything, would you do if you were in the position of Customer "A", either before approaching "B" or after?
6. As Customer "A" what would your response be after I blew my stack?
I am curious to see what the general sentiment is here and eagerly await your responses.
(Side note...for those who are in the "you should have made nice with A and kept him as a customer" camp... frankly I have no interest in having someone like that back in our shop so they can pull the same thing again... imo anyone who needs to rely on "customers" like that to stay afloat and/or allows them to return has something drastically wrong with their business model.)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I didn't buy anything from her but gave her my card in case I could be of assistance. The dealer saw this and was upset.
I was thrown out of the shop by the dealer, who was quite angry- red in the face, bulging eyes, and so on.
I was unaware of this little aspect of etiquette, but it turns out the dealer had a right to be a little miffed. It was HIS place of business, and even if he refused the coins, I had no business looking at them in his shop.
He grossly overreacted, though.
Next time any of you come across this situation, simply ask the dealer if he minds your looking at someone else's coins after he's had the right of first refusal. Usually if you're polite enough to ask, it should defuse the situation, I would think.
Don't feel bad, Bigrig52- you didn't knowingly step on anybody's toes. Like I said, I made the exact same mistake once. But you have to look at it from the dealer's point of view. He pays the overhead on the shop so he has the right to limit all business transactions within it to those that will profit him, personally. It's his domain and he's the king of the castle.
<< <i>just as bad, a local coin club wanted to put there coin club flyer in are coin shop, we let them put some on the counter, now another club wants to do the same, the guy from the first club was in are store when a customer was buying morgans he told him about there coin club and that they had a auction with morgans in it ..
i couldnt believe this clown , both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !! >>
BTW, did you mosey over to the auction and score some good deals? I'm guessing that you were as much invited as the other guy was.
<< <i>
<< <i>just as bad, a local coin club wanted to put there coin club flyer in are coin shop, we let them put some on the counter, now another club wants to do the same, the guy from the first club was in are store when a customer was buying morgans he told him about there coin club and that they had a auction with morgans in it ..
i couldnt believe this clown , both clubs will be getting there flyers back , no more helping coin clubs and then getting clubed over the head !! >>
BTW, did you mosey over to the auction and score some good deals? I'm guessing that you were as much invited as the other guy was. >>
You're implying since the dealer could also go to said auction, the club guy was doing nothing wrong by soliciting the customer in his store. So, by your same "logic", anyone can then go into a coin store and offer to buy things from any other customer who's selling something, as long as they turn to the dealer and say "it's OK, I can try to buy this guy's stuff because I'm equally willing to buy things from you too- so that makes it fair"? Gimme a break.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>I would wait a few days before going back ,First start off with the apology that you didnt mean ill harm to him or his place of business then explaining that ( if it is true) you wasnt interested in buying but wondering what the seller thought the coins were worth. They may or may not accept your apology ( and maybe some of you would say just cut your losses and walk away right now) but I would make that effort to apologize if i really didnt mean ill harm . If its a dealer youve been going to for years they should know how you are and your intentions so even if you broke a unwritten rule they might have been having justa bad day. Cant hurt in my book. If after that and they ask you to leave again then I would look for a new dealer. >>
I like atarian's answer.
+2
<< <i>if you walk off and catch up to him then there is nothing wrong with making a deal
show promoters will kick you out of a show if they catch you making deals in the isle. I've purchased from collectors at dealers tables who passed on the deal. Easy solution, ask the dealer what he wants for you to make the purchase at his table and everyone is happy. Never had a problem with this solution. >>
I would love to see a show promoter kick me out for buying from a collector