Would coin shows be better if they were shorter?

MrEureka

We know a few things:

1. The longer the show, the more dealers will leave early.

2. Lots of coins that used to get bought and sold on the bourse floor now go to auction instead.

3. However long the show is, some people are not going to be happy with the length of the show.

Of course, I've already shown my bias.

But what do you think?

RWB

Shorter shows and better marketing & presentation.

illini420

No matter the length, they need to be open and active at least one day on the weekend to bring in those of us who don't play coins full-time.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>No matter the length, they need to be open and active at least one day on the weekend to bring in those of us who don't play coins full-time. >>



right...

so shorten them to fri-sat-sun

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>No matter the length, they need to be open and active at least one day on the weekend to bring in those of us who don't play coins full-time. >>




While your point makes total sense... coin collectors, along with this hobby, quite often DO NOT make sense ...

The reason I say that is... the last 3 days I spent at the GSNA show in NJ (as did the OP of this thread, Aki and his helper Andy ) ... an annual event less than 30 miles down the highway from the location of the Parsippany monthly show...

This GSNA show is well advertised and is well known in the state... while most of the dealers are those who also set up in Parsippany, it also hosts a number of dealers who only come to NJ for this show each year...

First off, I have heard of a number of folks who say they WILL NOT attend the show because of the WHOPPING $3 admission fee (it is free IF you are a GSNA member, which has an exorbinant annual dues of a WHOLE $10) ... these fees go to the support the promotion of the hobby in the state and for YN projects... oh horrors... the greedy GSNA... lol

Anywho... I would estimate that the foot traffic in one day at Parsippany, in the 6 hours that show usually lasts... is much larger than the TOTAL foot traffic we had over the entire 3 day GSNA show. The funny thing is... and I am not the only dealer who noted this... most of the business we did took place on Thursday and Friday. While the show seemed more populated today, many of the folks who came today, were either site-seeing or there for the annual GSNA meeting...or the extensive YN program... or the EAC meeting or who knows what...

Overall, I would have to say that, if not for the wholesale business I did (and many other dealers echoed this sentiment) the show would have been very weak... and I am predominantly a retail oriented dealer... at the end of the show, my total sales were logged in my ledger on a single page... I usually need an extra page for my total sales in one day at Parsippany... and the retail business accounted for less than 20% of the total business done... (thank goodness for want lists from regular collector/customers)...


So... to try to answer the OP's question... who the heck knows????

Some 1 day shows I have done have been disasters... some, like Parsippany are always good... some 2-3 day shows have been very good, yet most of the business at many of those shows seems to always take place BEFORE the weekend... while some other shows never seem to get off the ground...

Should shows be longer or shorter? Doesn't really matter if no one shows up... or the few who do are unwilling or unable or have no intention of buying enough for the the dealers to at least pay their expenses... not a "whine"... simply a reality of business and life...

Will dealers remain for the duration a multi-day show (or even a 1 day show)? Depends... if business is happening... yes... OTOH... if 50 dealers are standing/sitting around watching 2 or 3 people wandering around the bourse... folks... it is time to pack it in...

At the end of the day... there will always be those who are pleased... those who are not... and those who are in between ... and that, my friends, has little to do with just coin shows... it is the nature of life and people... no one can please everyone... no matter how hard they may try...



ok...I'm done...

DaveG

I think coin shows should be better "targeted" to their audiences. I think the show promoters should be more active managers of their shows. I also think that dealers will stick around if there's business to be done.

If you have a multi-day show and you know that the wholesale-type dealers will be leaving after the first day or so, then you can: rent out their abandoned tables cheap to local dealers or put them in their own section and screen them off or just take the tables down early. If you usually have three shows a year and now they seem "tired", then cancel the weakest show and put some promotion behind the other two.

If the show is important to collectors, they'll make an effort to get there. For all the folks who complain about dealers not sticking around - take a look at antique shows: the folks who go to them know to get there early; that's just the way their world works. When I go to Baltimore, I look forward to it months in advance- I make a point of taking a day off work and going on Friday. If I can't do that, then I just stick to my local Sunday-only shows.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>Will dealers remain for the duration a multi-day show (or even a 1 day show)? Depends... if business is happening... yes... OTOH... if 50 dealers are standing/sitting around watching 2 or 3 people wandering around the bourse... folks... it is time to pack it in... >>

I have noticed just this at the local show where I used to live. If buyers are present, dealers tend to not pack up and leave early. If, however, it's like a ghost town, well...

Unfortunately, some people seem to think of a coin show as though it was a store with fixed hours, and it just ain't so. Best Buy may stay open until the posted closing time even if nobody's in the store, but dealers at a coin show won't be as accomodating. If you find dealers leaving early at the show you're attending, maybe you should ask the promoter to do a better job of promoting? Just a thought...

MrEureka

I have noticed just this at the local show where I used to live. If buyers are present, dealers tend to not pack up and leave early. If, however, it's like a ghost town, well...

Unfortunately, some people seem to think of a coin show as though it was a store with fixed hours, and it just ain't so. Best Buy may stay open until the posted closing time even if nobody's in the store, but dealers at a coin show won't be as accomodating. If you find dealers leaving early at the show you're attending, maybe you should ask the promoter to do a better job of promoting?


Promotion is all well and good, but it's really mostly about the coins. By which I mean, there are many collectors who leave early because they've already seen everything of interest on the bourse floor. But if they kept on finding new and interesting things, most of those collectors would stay until the bitter end. In other words, the collectors behave exactly like the dealers. They stay as long as it's worth their while.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>In other words, the collectors behave exactly like the dealers. They stay as long as it's worth their while. >>

Sure, but you'd get the idea from reading posts about coin shows that the problem is the %$^&#* dealers who insist on leaving early.

Rhetorical question- how many collectors stop and look at every dealer's table with the intention of possibly making a purchase? Practically none, yet it's the dealers who get beat up for not being available for every collector who attends the show. Just seems odd to me.

MrEureka

<< In other words, the collectors behave exactly like the dealers. They stay as long as it's worth their while. >>

Sure, but you'd get the idea from reading posts about coin shows that the problem is the %$^&#* dealers who insist on leaving early.

Don't go so easy on the dealers. They could have brought more coins.

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>I have noticed just this at the local show where I used to live. If buyers are present, dealers tend to not pack up and leave early. If, however, it's like a ghost town, well...

Unfortunately, some people seem to think of a coin show as though it was a store with fixed hours, and it just ain't so. Best Buy may stay open until the posted closing time even if nobody's in the store, but dealers at a coin show won't be as accomodating. If you find dealers leaving early at the show you're attending, maybe you should ask the promoter to do a better job of promoting?


Promotion is all well and good, but it's really mostly about the coins. By which I mean, there are many collectors who leave early because they've already seen everything of interest on the bourse floor. But if they kept on finding new and interesting things, most of those collectors would stay until the bitter end. In other words, the collectors behave exactly like the dealers. They stay as long as it's worth their while. >>




I don't know about you, Andy... but the folks in the factory I get my coins from is already working as fast as they can... how many "new" coins do we need to satisfy the numismatic masses?

MrEureka

the folks in the factory I get my coins from is already working as fast as they can... how many "new" coins do we need to satisfy the numismatic masses?

Which brings us back to my point. If there aren't going to be enough fresh coins to keep everyone busy, the show should be shorter.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>Don't go so easy on the dealers. They could have brought more coins. >>

I sat at the table two dealers were sharing long enough to watch Dealer A buy a coin from Dealer B, and then sell it back to Dealer B. Maybe if there were more collectors at the show who were buying instead of looking...

RedTiger

If dealers leave when ever they want to, isn't the announced length of the show a rhetorical question?

I'd say that there are too many shows, but no one who owns the rights to a major show is going to give theirs up. Instead, the ANA just announced another major show to the calendar, Baltimore recently added a show.

In a direct answer to the question, Long Beach cut out Sunday (now Thu to Sat). I doubt many would vote that the show has gotten better because of the new schedule. By noon Saturday most dealers are packing up, and a few ditch Saturday all together. Is this progress?

SeaEagleCoins

good vs not-so-good attitudes put aside... the eternal coin dealer's dilemma has no real solution... where are they to get all this fresh material the collectors seek? They can't just pull them out of their butt... even though some coins look like that might have been their source

We are limited to that which people are willing to sell... and at a price that allows some sort of acceptable profit...

The advantage to being a mobile dealer is that it allows one to hopefully be in the right place at the right time when something "good" and/or desireable becomes available... it is often a matter of hit or miss... and that would apply even more-so, if there were no dealers in the equation...

Try building a collection just from the internet... that has it's many pitfalls also... or how about your local B&M... even the BST or ebay or Heritage can not be a "total" source...

A seasoned collector realizes that a quality collection does not (except in the rarest of cases) come from one source... unless you count the original source... the Mint...

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>If dealers leave when ever they want to, isn't the announced length of the show a rhetorical question? >>

If collectors attend when ever they want to...

Seriously though- are there any coin shows which are intended by their promotors to be exclusively for retail selling? If not, then dealers coming and going shouldn't be the issue that so many people make it out to be, no?

Broadstruck

SeaEagleCoins, I still feel that the fate of the GSNA show may have fallen on your choice of head attire...

As you never see Jay Cline switching his signature English bowler hat for a Baseball cap in the summer!

WTCG

<< <i>No matter the length, they need to be open and active at least one day on the weekend to bring in those of us who don't play coins full-time. >>



Dealers need an incentive to stay at a show during the weekend. If strong sales don't materialize during the weekend then staying around just to appease the weekend sightseeing crowd is a total waste of time.

If the public wants dealers to stay during the weekend then the public needs to demonstrate that it is worthwhile for those dealers to stay. Buying a lot of coins would certainly help. Gawkers and people whose real intent is to socialize with the people behind the tables (against their will) while at the same time having a reluctance to spend much money is definitely an effective way to convince dealers to leave early.

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>SeaEagleCoins, I still feel that the fate of the GSNA show may have fallen on your choice of head attire...

As you never see Jay Cline switching his signature English bowler hat for a Baseball cap in the summer! >>






The first time I showed up at Parsippany without my Signature Brown Leather Hat™ , the show promoter wasn't sure if he should cancel the show or throw me out

You would have know the story behind my Warm Weather Cap to understand why I wear it... I had given it to my stepdad as a gift and he wore it EVERYWHERE ... after he passed on, it sat on top of his hat "pile" for a year or so, until one day I decided it should be worn... and it has an Indian design of a Bear... the name Sea Eagle was given to me by a man named Sun Bear...

Besides... a Brown Leather hat is very uncomfortable in warm ( and especially humid ) weather... ends up making my head smell funky too...


Well... now I am off to my regular 3rd Sunday of the month show... Old Bridge... after 3 days at the GSNA, I hope I can last without nodding off... now if folks just show up and keep things lively, I'm sure I can do it...

coinkat

Depends on the show

I am not sure big shows like Fun and Baltimore can be shortened too much- eliminating Sunday seems plausible- Thurday through the end of the day Saturday seems okay- remember- there is alot to see - especially for collectors that try to be in the right place at the right time which is rarely accomplished

golfer72

I dont go to the last day of a show any more. Not worth it. Most of the dealers are gone. Many people feel that way so less collectors go the last day, so more dealers leave early so less collectors go and on and on..... It just feeds on itself. No real fix that I can see.

ebaytrader

<< <i>Depends on the show

I am not sure big shows like Fun and Baltimore can be shortened too much- eliminating Sunday seems plausible- Thurday through the end of the day Saturday seems okay- remember- there is alot to see - especially for collectors that try to be in the right place at the right time which is rarely accomplished >>




Show length has been institutionalized and was a result of dealer and collector needs in pre-slabbing days when you would have to sit down and look thru hundreds of raw choice BU coins looking to cherry-pick a gem. With slabbing, that time intensive exercise is gone. Also, municipal convention centers and their convention bureaus have a great deal to say about how their facilities are used. A great example is Baltimore expanding a day after an initial contraction.

golfer72

The problem with shortening shows from Thur-Sun to Thur-Sat is Saturday is now the last day so the Dealers will leave Friday and Saturday will then be a ghost town. I guess the only real fix is a one day show.

Broadstruck

<< <i>Besides... a Brown Leather hat is very uncomfortable in warm ( and especially humid ) weather... ends up making my head smell funky too... >>





Well then thanks for NOT wearing your Signature Brown Leather Hat™ and doing your part to keep the coin shows non funky smelling!

JJM

Friday / Sat

PerryHall

<< <i>If the public wants dealers to stay during the weekend then the public needs to demonstrate that it is worthwhile for those dealers to stay. >>



Why should collectors come on the last day when most of the dealers left at noon on the previous day?

claychaser

<< <i>No matter the length, they need to be open and active at least one day on the weekend to bring in those of us who don't play coins full-time. >>



And that's a FULL day on the weekend - such as Saturday from 10AM to 7 PM, with the Brinks or currior pickups in Sunday morning, when the show is closed to the public for dealer teardown.

Hear hear!

WTCG

<< <i>

<< <i>If the public wants dealers to stay during the weekend then the public needs to demonstrate that it is worthwhile for those dealers to stay. >>



Why should collectors come on the last day when most of the dealers left at noon on the previous day? >>



Again, if collectors can provide some type of positive reinforcement for dealers to stay until the very end then they would.

claychaser

Wei, I agree that the reason to stay open must be positive. Would things like free or deeply discounted room rates for Saturday night, or a lavsih dealer banquet work by themselves? Or, would the synergy of having an active bourse all day on Saturday be best?

RYK

I think that it generally works pretty well the way things are now, and when it does not, like the recent CSNS, it is quickly changed to hopefully work better next time. So long as conditions are not changed haphazardly, most collectors and dealers of all shapes and sizes schedule their time to fit their own expectations and goals for the show. On the margin, perhaps a few folks are disappointed (ie. collector of MS-67 Saints arriving at a four day local show on Sunday afternoon), and they alter their behavior in the future to minimize disappointment (ie. attend earlier or don't go).

WTCG

<< <i>Wei, I agree that the reason to stay open must be positive. Would things like free or deeply discounted room rates for Saturday night, or a lavsih dealer banquet work by themselves? Or, would the synergy of having an active bourse all day on Saturday be best? >>



Shows big and small have tried numerous methods to keep dealers around until the very end. Some shows offer cash credits, discounts or other incentives while other promoters attempt to punish those who leave early. Incentives aren't a guarantee and punishing or penalizing dealers does nothing other than plants the seeds of resentment. There are plenty of coin shows to go around and it is in a promoter's best interest to not drive away or antagonize too many dealers.

An active, bustling bourse floor over the weekend days is the best way to keep dealers around until the end.

MrOrganic

IMO

It falls on the promoters!


I come from a marketing/promotion background & this industry is WWAAAYYYY behind on its marketing tactics. Mailers & "blurbs" in coin club newsletters?????? LOL

My thoughts
1. When shows are on sat dealers must stay till 6pm. No too fond of sun shows (big shows yes, smaller ones no)

2. Advertise more than jus flyers at local 1 day shows! I do not see any internet/social media marketing by promoters. Never see any billboards or "roadsigns" like I do with gun shows,comiccon & car shows.
Also with GOLD as hot as it is there should be more mentions of the big shows on TV news reports.

3. Auctions help shows & with so many newbies coming into the industry/hobby there should be educational seminars even if the show is one day! Basics of buying PM's, Morgan dollars 101.

4. Long Beach with "Ship Of Gold" was a great Idea. Lots of free press, news reports & lots of foot traffic. Foot traffic = $$$$$$$, New collectors,investors, etc

5. Also dealers themselves need to be more proactive in collecting names, business cards, emails,etc & then having there own personal marketing program.

PerryHall

<< <i>An active, bustling bourse floor over the weekend days is the best way to keep dealers around until the end. >>



Agree. When dealers leave at noon on Saturday for a show that ends on Sunday, why not rent out the vacant tables at a steep discount to the local small dealers and collectors? I'm sure more collectors and dealers would stick around so they could cherry pick the these small dealers/collectors that set up at the end of the show.

illini420

And it also doesn't help when a show like Long Beach still charges full price $4 admission on Saturdays. When the public knows that most dealers will only be there maybe until noon or 1pm, and some dealers won't even be there at all, many may not even show at all. While the $4 doesn't stop me, it may be a turn off to some to have to pay full price for 2-3 hours of half a show. The last day should be discounted or free to the public.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>I come from a marketing/promotion background & this industry is WWAAAYYYY behind on its marketing tactics. Mailers & "blurbs" in coin club newsletters?????? LOL >>

Marketing and events at the show are good things, but they cost money. Charge collectors more to attend? Already, you hear howls of discontent if a show tries to collect a nominal ($1 - $5) amount from them. Charge dealers more for tables? Great if you can do it and get the dealers to still come, but I'd bet lots of shows would already be charging dealers more if they thought they could do it.

IMO, if there was an easy, one-size-fits-all solution to the problem, there wouldn't be a problem.

RTS

Would coin shows be better if they were shorter?

Yes...Thursday-Friday.

bidask

I think there are to many dealers with the same looking coins for sale at shows.

BillJones

It all depends upon the show. When I lived in New England, I used to set up at some wonderful one day shows. I used to do more business at them than I would do at the shows that lasted for three days. On the other hand national shows, like FUN, benefit from their length. I'm not big on Sundays, but the rest of the week was necessary because the bourse floor was so large. It would be hard to see all the tables in just a couple of days.

When I moved to Florida, most all of the local shows lasted for three days. Sadly there was usually only one day's worth of business to be done at most all of them. The extra days only added to my overhead and didn't do much for my sales.

I think that many shows, at least in Florida, are too long. And most every multiple day show could do without Sunday. Sunday is usually a ghost town that is filled with people complaining to the show promoters that "all the dealers have left." Well, if you would spend some money, you might find more dealers that would be willing to stay, but mostly Sunday people are "tire kickers." They seem to think that since it's the end of the show that the dealers are "desperate to sell." The answer to that is, "There is always the next show, and desperation usually has no role to play."