That new photo is completely DRAW DROPPING BREATHTAKINGLY GORGEOUS! Wow, and it is even more true to the coin in hand. Again, fantastic coin and fantastic photo!
But it will be interesting to see what this brings this time around
I think the current owner bought this for approx $235,000 or thereabouts back in March 2010. I think the PCGS Price Guide is $200,000.
Since the market for MPLs seems a bit soft right now, I would guess somewhere in the high $100's but who knows. This coin does have eye appeal out the wazoo and is widely considered the most beautiful Matte Proof Lincoln known.
Are there still deep-pocketed collectors out there interested in these?
There is a rumor that this Jenks coin was graded TWICE by NGC in the past and one of those gradings included their "star". I do know that the current NGC census reports two PF68RB 1909VDB MPL's. The only other 1909VDB MPL's higher than PR/PF 66 are Stewart Blay's and the Thomas Irwin collection PCGS PR67RD's. Those NGC graded PF68RB's of 1909VDB MPL's seem strange to me. Do they currently actually exist or are they now just ONE coin, a PCGS PR67+RB? Any input is welcome. Steve
Thanks for the picture of the coin in a NGC PF68RB holder with the "star". A picture is worth a thousand words they say and I'm now sure my so called "rumor" is in fact TRUE. My memory is not as good as it used to be but I'm now thinking this all came out to the public when Jonathan bought the coin in 2010. I can also rationalize Jonathan NOT wanting to turn the label back to NGC since the NGC label only tends to support how super special this coin is. This coin, as well as the two PCGS PR67RD 1909VDB MPL's represent the finest known of this rare proof. It would be very interesting to see if PCGS would upgrade either or both of the PR67RD examples if they were resubmitted. Some of us prefer a full red example over a very pretty toned example, but I think all of us can appreciate how rare and special these three coins are. I look forward to watching the bidding in August at the ANA convention. Steve
Brian, Do you know the story of the "second" NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof? My understanding is that the Jenks coin was first holdered by NGC and then apparently resubmitted and given the PF68RB with the (*) rating. My understanding is we are talking about the SAME coin that Jonathan Watkins then submitted to PCGS where they graded the coin as a PR67RB+. CAC had given the coin a green sticker when it was in the NGC PF68RB holder and now has given the coin a gold sticker in the PCGS PR67RB+ holder which makes complete sense. What doesn't make sense to me is with all the publicity surrounding this coin back in 2010 and now with the auction coming up in August, WHY NGC continues to list 2 NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof Lincoln cents in their census report each week. Any comments are appreciated. Steve
<< <i>Brian, Do you know the story of the "second" NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof? My understanding is that the Jenks coin was first holdered by NGC and then apparently resubmitted and given the PF68RB with the (*) rating. My understanding is we are talking about the SAME coin that Jonathan Watkins then submitted to PCGS where they graded the coin as a PR67RB+. CAC had given the coin a green sticker when it was in the NGC PF68RB holder and now has given the coin a gold sticker in the PCGS PR67RB+ holder which makes complete sense. What doesn't make sense to me is with all the publicity surrounding this coin back in 2010 and now with the auction coming up in August, WHY NGC continues to list 2 NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof Lincoln cents in their census report each week. Any comments are appreciated. Steve >>
The PCGS pop report currently lists one 1909 VDB in PR67RB and another in PR67+RB. I wonder if both of those entries are also the same coin since I remember that the PR67+RB was initially crossed at PR67RB. I would guess that PCGS would have removed the duplication upon reconsideration of the grade (unless the coin was sent back in for regrade raw). Or is there another PCGS PR67RB 1909 VDB out there???
The PCGS pop report currently lists one 1909 VDB in PR67RB and another in PR67+RB. I wonder if both of those entries are also the same coin since I remember that the PR67+RB was initially crossed at PR67RB. I would guess that PCGS would have removed the duplication upon reconsideration of the grade (unless the coin was sent back in for regrade raw). Or is there another PCGS PR67RB 1909 VDB out there??? >>
Michael, As Bruce (TDN) said, and as shown in Coin Facts under 1909VDB PROOF (red and brown pictures), there ARE now 2 PCGS coins graded under the PR67RB listing. One is Jonathan's coin, the Jenks example which is graded PR67+RB. The other is a coin that was upgraded last Fall by PCGS from PR66+RB to PR67RB. While this did NOT change the PCGS population it was a significant upgrade and I failed to mention it in my annual MPL report in March. I'm glad you brought this to my attention because I have not been tracking the changes in plus grades via updates in my reports. At the PR or PF 66 or 67 level for the 1909VDB MPL's that fact is important to mention. In fact, there are just two "plus" coins listed for the 1909VDB MPL. Jonathan's PR67+RB and a PR63+RD. Those two coins were shown by PCGS in my March 2014 numbers.
Interestingly, the population for the PCGS 1909VDB MPL's has increased from 121 in March to 125 now. (a PR63BN, a PR64RB, a PR65RB and a PR66RB have been added in the last six weeks! I don't know if this is the result of crack-outs and resubmissions or submission of raw coins. I suspect it is the former.
The comment by Brian today regarding 1909VDB MPL's as they relate to Jonathan's coin, the non existence of any NGC PR68 coins, and the fact that we DO now have a total of 4 PCGS PR67 coins certified ( (2) PR67RD, (1) PR67+RB and (1) PR67RB)) I am fully in agreement with.
Any thoughts about the 4 new certifications by PCGS? It seems a little strange to me.
Brian, That coin is the PR66 shown on the Coin Facts 1909VDB MPL (red/brown) front page along with the new PR67RB and Jonathan's PR67+RB. In the detail pictures of all RB's there is another PR66RB that looks nicer, in my opinion, than the one Legend is selling. Steve
These are some old pics of my 1909vdb PR66RD. It has some color around the periphery, but a full red coin. It is from the Thomas Irwin collection before Gerry upgraded to a 67. I think this coin is a 67 all day long. I have 67's and a 68 so I have some ability to grade it.
Thanks for clearing that up re: the two coins grading 67RB and 67+RB being different coins. I should have just checked CoinFacts from the start. The 67RB looks like another amazing coin from the photos... almost like the look of that one better than the 67+RB. Both coins appear to be leagues above the 66RB being sold by Legend from the photos. But as we all know, you really can't capture the full look of any MPL from a single photo. I would expect that the 66RB looks much better in hand.
DMWJR, very pretty coin. Tons of eye appeal on that one and again, I'm sure it pops so much more in hand that it shows in the photo.
Interestingly, the population for the PCGS 1909VDB MPL's has increased from 121 in March to 125 now. (a PR63BN, a PR64RB, a PR65RB and a PR66RB have been added in the last six weeks! I don't know if this is the result of crack-outs and resubmissions or submission of raw coins. I suspect it is the former.
Any thoughts about the 4 new certifications by PCGS? It seems a little strange to me.
Steve >>
Here I am quoting myself. It NOW appears that at least TWO of the above mentioned 1909VDB MPL's added to the PCGS population count since March are going to auction or are being sold privately. The PR64RB is probably the coin in the Heritage early June Long Beach auction and the PR66RB is probably the coin that Legend is working to sell as per Brian's comment in this thread.. In addition, of course, we have Jonathan's PR67+RB (the Jenks example) which is scheduled for auction at the ANA in August. Sales and auctions of the 1909VDB MPL are always exciting to me because of the fact of the rarity of this issue and hence the five figure price the examples now go for in the Lincoln cent proof series. I guess, if an owner is planning to sell this coin it becomes imperative to first get the coin regraded, preferably by PCGS, if it is in a non PCGS holder, and then hope potential buyers will be willing to pay more for this issue in its assigned grade than they had during the Lincoln centennial period five years ago. I guess in the coming months we will see if this is true or not. Steve
Doug, It is GREAT to see you post again here. Your Lincoln cent collections, both proof and business strike, are really top of the line, and I'm sure you get great pleasure from owning these gems. While I do respect your right to keep them closed, I sure would love to see them again, if only for a short time. Take care. Steve
Comments
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Todd (BluCC photos) definately hit a home run with the images he took of this VDB at the recent Long Beach show.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Any relation to the PR67 coming up at Heritage? >>
Same coin.
Here is the link to the Heritage Auction ..
Monster PR67+RB MPL at Heritage Auctions
Heritage Photos ...
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But it will be interesting to see what this brings this time around
I think the current owner bought this for approx $235,000 or thereabouts back in March 2010.
I think the PCGS Price Guide is $200,000.
Since the market for MPLs seems a bit soft right now, I would guess somewhere in the high $100's but who knows.
This coin does have eye appeal out the wazoo and is widely considered the most beautiful Matte Proof Lincoln known.
Are there still deep-pocketed collectors out there interested in these?
My Coin Blog
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My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>I know about this single NGC grading iteration ... not sure if there was a second ...
Thanks for the image in the NGC PR68RB*
Just for an added note, the coin had received a CAC green sticker while in that holder.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>It's hard to see why it wouldn't be a 68 in any holder. I don't see a single distraction and the color is out of this world. >>
Yes, totally agree!
Do you know the story of the "second" NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof? My understanding is that the Jenks coin was first holdered by NGC and then apparently resubmitted and given the PF68RB with the (*) rating. My understanding is we are talking about the SAME coin that Jonathan Watkins then submitted to PCGS where they graded the coin as a PR67RB+. CAC had given the coin a green sticker when it was in the NGC PF68RB holder and now has given the coin a gold sticker in the PCGS PR67RB+ holder which makes complete sense.
What doesn't make sense to me is with all the publicity surrounding this coin back in 2010 and now with the auction coming up in August, WHY NGC continues to list 2 NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof Lincoln cents in their census report each week. Any comments are appreciated.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Hi Steve,
I am confident that all three of these coins are the same critter.
Brian
<< <i>Brian,
Do you know the story of the "second" NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof? My understanding is that the Jenks coin was first holdered by NGC and then apparently resubmitted and given the PF68RB with the (*) rating. My understanding is we are talking about the SAME coin that Jonathan Watkins then submitted to PCGS where they graded the coin as a PR67RB+. CAC had given the coin a green sticker when it was in the NGC PF68RB holder and now has given the coin a gold sticker in the PCGS PR67RB+ holder which makes complete sense.
What doesn't make sense to me is with all the publicity surrounding this coin back in 2010 and now with the auction coming up in August, WHY NGC continues to list 2 NGC PF68RB 1909VDB matte proof Lincoln cents in their census report each week. Any comments are appreciated.
Steve
The PCGS pop report currently lists one 1909 VDB in PR67RB and another in PR67+RB. I wonder if both of those entries are also the same coin since I remember that the PR67+RB was initially crossed at PR67RB. I would guess that PCGS would have removed the duplication upon reconsideration of the grade (unless the coin was sent back in for regrade raw). Or is there another PCGS PR67RB 1909 VDB out there???
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Both are pictured on Coin Facts. They are two separate coins >>
Agree, the two 1909 VDB Matte Proofs graded by PCGS as PR67RB and PR67+RB are two different coins. (see coinfacts for images)
The two 1909 VDB Proofs graded by as NGC PF68RB and PF68RB* and the PCGC PR67+RB are the same coin.
<< <i>
The PCGS pop report currently lists one 1909 VDB in PR67RB and another in PR67+RB. I wonder if both of those entries are also the same coin since I remember that the PR67+RB was initially crossed at PR67RB. I would guess that PCGS would have removed the duplication upon reconsideration of the grade (unless the coin was sent back in for regrade raw). Or is there another PCGS PR67RB 1909 VDB out there??? >>
Michael,
As Bruce (TDN) said, and as shown in Coin Facts under 1909VDB PROOF (red and brown pictures), there ARE now 2 PCGS coins graded under the PR67RB listing. One is Jonathan's coin, the Jenks example which is graded PR67+RB. The other is a coin that was upgraded last Fall by PCGS from PR66+RB to PR67RB. While this did NOT change the PCGS population it was a significant upgrade and I failed to mention it in my annual MPL report in March. I'm glad you brought this to my attention because I have not been tracking the changes in plus grades via updates in my reports. At the PR or PF 66 or 67 level for the 1909VDB MPL's that fact is important to mention. In fact, there are just two "plus" coins listed for the 1909VDB MPL. Jonathan's PR67+RB and a PR63+RD. Those two coins were shown by PCGS in my March 2014 numbers.
Interestingly, the population for the PCGS 1909VDB MPL's has increased from 121 in March to 125 now. (a PR63BN, a PR64RB, a PR65RB and a PR66RB have been added in the last six weeks! I don't know if this is the result of crack-outs and resubmissions or submission of raw coins. I suspect it is the former.
The comment by Brian today regarding 1909VDB MPL's as they relate to Jonathan's coin, the non existence of any NGC PR68 coins, and the fact that we DO now have a total of 4 PCGS PR67 coins certified ( (2) PR67RD, (1) PR67+RB and (1) PR67RB)) I am fully in agreement with.
Any thoughts about the 4 new certifications by PCGS? It seems a little strange to me.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
This 1909 VDB Matte Proof, graded PCGS PR66RB, is being offered by Legend Numismatics for $78,500. A pending sale is in the works.
I don't recall viewing this one in the past.
BW
That coin is the PR66 shown on the Coin Facts 1909VDB MPL (red/brown) front page along with the new PR67RB and Jonathan's PR67+RB. In the detail pictures of all RB's there is another PR66RB that looks nicer, in my opinion, than the one Legend is selling. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
[URL=http://s61.photobucket.com/user/dmwjr/media/Lincolns/Proofs 1909 - 1916/a1909VDBObv2.jpg.html]
[URL=http://s61.photobucket.com/user/dmwjr/media/Lincolns/Proofs 1909 - 1916/a1909VDBREV.jpg.html]
DMWJR, very pretty coin. Tons of eye appeal on that one and again, I'm sure it pops so much more in hand that it shows in the photo.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
Interestingly, the population for the PCGS 1909VDB MPL's has increased from 121 in March to 125 now. (a PR63BN, a PR64RB, a PR65RB and a PR66RB have been added in the last six weeks! I don't know if this is the result of crack-outs and resubmissions or submission of raw coins. I suspect it is the former.
Any thoughts about the 4 new certifications by PCGS? It seems a little strange to me.
Steve
Here I am quoting myself. It NOW appears that at least TWO of the above mentioned 1909VDB MPL's added to the PCGS population count since March are going to auction or are being sold privately. The PR64RB is probably the coin in the Heritage early June Long Beach auction and the PR66RB is probably the coin that Legend is working to sell as per Brian's comment in this thread.. In addition, of course, we have Jonathan's PR67+RB (the Jenks example) which is scheduled for auction at the ANA in August. Sales and auctions of the 1909VDB MPL are always exciting to me because of the fact of the rarity of this issue and hence the five figure price the examples now go for in the Lincoln cent proof series. I guess, if an owner is planning to sell this coin it becomes imperative to first get the coin regraded, preferably by PCGS, if it is in a non PCGS holder, and then hope potential buyers will be willing to pay more for this issue in its assigned grade than they had during the Lincoln centennial period five years ago. I guess in the coming months we will see if this is true or not. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Doug,
Thanks for sharing the pictures of your 1909 VDB MPL. Very nice coin indeed.
Brian
It is GREAT to see you post again here. Your Lincoln cent collections, both proof and business strike, are really top of the line, and I'm sure you get great pleasure from owning these gems. While I do respect your right to keep them closed, I sure would love to see them again, if only for a short time. Take care.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry