ALERT !! Tyler Doubled Edge Lettering - Overlapped - ALERT !!

Silverstate

I have just alerted PCGS of the potential problem.

I purchased a Tyler P Doubled Edge Overlapped Lettering Pos A MS66, with minimal observation shows no sign of Doubled edge lettering.

This is PCGS Variety # 413834

Under 10x power I can see the 9 and the P overlapped and a single star and the E overlapped and that's it!

There is not even one number, letter or star doubled on this coin, that I can see through the holder.
The E Pluribus Unum looks sharp and clear. On a true Doubled edge this is a mess.

IMHO
A Doubled Edge Variety is Major variety and this would be better labeled a "Shifted Edge Lettering" coin with an "E" affixed to it.

This is NOT a registry coin by any stretch of the imagination.

PCGS has been contacted this afternoon of the potential problem and I wanted to alert anyone else that has purchased some of these recently graded Doubled Edge Varieties, that seem to be Shifted Edge Lettering instead.

This reminds me of the Satins hiding in Business strike holders.
Hopefully in the end the coins can all be verified and the registry sets corrected.

Tyler Obverse
Tyler Reverse
Edge Pic 1 < ----- 9 & P are overlapped.
Edge Pic 2 <--- Check out the clear UNUM !!
Edge Pic 3 < ---Stars with no doubling to be seen.
Edge Pic 4 < ------ (Sorry - Blurry)...But stars no doubling

wondercoin

Jim: Thanks for the "heads up". I'll see what I can possibly uncover tomorrow on this subject.

By the way, is this the only President with "Doubled Edge Lettering" that you are fairly certain is potentially misattributed at this point?

Wondercoin

Silverstate

<< <i>Jim: Thanks for the "heads up". I'll see what I can possibly uncover tomorrow on this subject.

By the way, is this the only President with "Doubled Edge Lettering" that you are fairly certain is potentially misattributed at this point?

Wondercoin >>



Mitch,

I highly encourage review of these PCGS Coin Numbers.
PCGS # 400256 - 2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2)
PCGS # 415040 - 2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 413834 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 8)
PCGS # 414799 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2 + genuine)
PCGS # 419043 -2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 419044 - 2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)

They all came in a very short period of time. And I have confirmed with at least one other collector that his Tyler Overlapped that he purchased can be described almost exactly as mine has been.

mas3387

WOW!!!! Thanks for the Heads up Jim. I assume you contacted the seller and they are going to do the “right thing”

Silverstate

<< <i>WOW!!!! Thanks for the Heads up Jim. I assume you contacted the seller and they are going to do the “right thing” >>



The seller refused to refund on the sale and said this
"CAVEAT EXEMPTOR. YOU SHOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT NOT I."

So....for the layman here.
Caveat Emptor is a Latin term that translates to “buyer beware” in English

So, Yes I agree with the seller "BUYERS...BEWARE"

mas3387

<< <i>The seller refused to refund on the sale and said this "CAVEAT EXEMPTOR. YOU SHOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT NOT I." So....for the layman here. Caveat Emptor is a Latin term that translates to “buyer beware” in English So, Yes I agree with the seller "BUYERS...BEWARE" >>



Wow X 2

Was this a private or eBay sale?

Silverstate

eBay sale
2009 P JOHN TYLER POS A OVERLAP DOUBLE EDGE LETTERING

Another coin sold 5/13/10 on eBay for $ 1250.00 ....This one should be looked at as well.
Search eBay for "Tyler Overlap" Completed items and it will come up.

19Lyds

<< <i>file a paypal claim I think you can get your funds back, I would consider giving a neutral or a negative feed back,

if seller knew he was selling a mis-attributed coin. >>



I know this seller or at least have had regular eMail communication with him for better than a year. Frankly, I am surprised at the response Jim received but.......I don't think the seller was intentionally trying to deceive as he may have "misunderstood" what he was looking at. On the other hand, if you don't know what you are looking at and submit it with what you "think" it is and PCGS agree's? What are you to do other than assume that your guess was correct?

PCGS MUST respond to this and make the required changes. If the seller/submitter/owner does not respond then I think the responsible thing to do is to mullify the cert numbers until an accurate determinarion can be rendered.

This entire situation is rather shocking!

And yes Jim, if the seller does not respect your refund request then a PayPal claim is in order.

19Lyds

One more thing, I realize that we have certain perceptions of what a doubled edge lettering coin may be but PCGS's definition "may" be different.

In otherwords, if lettering is shifted enough to be overlapped without damaging the edge, isn't that a doubling?

PCGS needs to make a determination on this and actually publish their definitions for edge lettering varieties/errors to avoid future misinterpretations.

wondercoin

I am informed that the coin which was purchased by Jim is in the process of being investigated by PCGS and will be removed from the pop report later today and that additional coins are also under investigation.

Wondercoin

19Lyds

<< <i>I am informed that the coin which was purchased by Jim is in the process of being investigated by PCGS and will be removed from the pop report later today and that additional coins are also under investigation.

Wondercoin >>



Thats great Mitch but Mike validates these coins and I'm really curious as to what PCGS's definition is and would like to have that published?

After all, what would you call a coin whose lettering was shifted so much that the letters overlap?

wondercoin

"After all, what would you call a coin whose lettering was shifted so much that the letters overlap?"

I think we both can agree that such a coin would not be a "MAJOR" variety. So, it would certainly need to be labeled something different than a term of art for the series which describes a doubled die coin - agreed? Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

19Lyds

<< <i>"After all, what would you call a coin whose lettering was shifted so much that the letters overlap?"

I think we both can agree that such a coin would not be a "MAJOR" variety. So, it would certainly need to be labeled something different than a term of art for the series which describes a doubled die coin - agreed? Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin >>



I don't know that I agree with the "term of art" phrase but I think I know what you are saying. (kool-aid slurp...) I also know that I have certain expectations (after wasting beau coupe bucks on weak edge lettering coins before ever getting an absolute definition) but the line has been so heavily "blurred" between variety, error, and "die state" that I don't really know what to expect anymore. Especially after this apparent excapade.

The general feeling seems to be that PCGS got it wrong OR perhaps PCGS has different expectations (i.e. definitions) than those of us that collect these? I don't know.

My own personal expectations are that a double edge lettering coin pass's through the edge lettering machine twice (like the ADAMS Dollars) but given the designation given to Jim's coin, that may not be the case. After all, "Double" Edge Lettering and "Doubled Edge Lettering" are two different cats.

What I would REALLY like is a clear definition of the variety since it now appears "opinionated" instead of "exact".

Unless of course, PCGS simply blew it!



Multiple times?


On Multiple coins AND multiple coin varieties.

It really should be fairly straight forward.

wondercoin

Lee - It's kind of like that famous commercial "where's the beef"? Silverstate says he did not see any!

But, seriously, I am confident PCGS will sort this all out and determine if these coins are properly designated.

Wondercoin

Silverstate

Here are the definitions that I obtained from PCGS as of 5/19/09 :



Weak Edge Lettering indicates the edge lettering has a portion of a letter/star or inscription missing. The missing part could be the serif of an "S” or "T" or part of a star.

Note: This variety will not be recognized if part of the edge design was caused by damage.



Partial Edge Lettering will have at least one complete letter or star missing.

Note: This variety will not be recognized if part of the edge design was caused by damage.



Double Edge Lettering-Overlap is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with both sets of lettering in the same direction.



Double Edge Lettering-Inverted is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with one set of lettering upside down.



Missing Edge Lettering is a coin which does not display any of the intended design on the edge of the coin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So as for my particular coin...
Double Edge Lettering-Overlap is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with both sets of lettering in the same direction.

My coin does NOT have a second set of lettering.


I also receieved grading results on a Madison dollar that was cracked out of an ANACS Holder that was designated "Overlapping Edge Letters"
Results are:

Cert Verification #: 16294786
PCGS Coin #: E148058
Date, mintmark: 2007-P
Denomination: $1
Variety: James Madison Position A
Minor Variety:
Mint Error: E over P - Edge Lettering


An "E" Coin, which is what I expected.

wondercoin

Jim: If you would like, you can overnight your coin down to me today (via Express Mail for Monday delivery) and I can walk it in to PCGS for you on Monday and show it to Jaime Hernandez and anyone else interested in seeing it. PCGS may need a few days with the coin though. I am not sure what you are doing or not doing with ebay or paypal. I don't want to hold up anything else you may be doing with the time it takes for PCGS to examine the coin.

Happy to assist though if you need it.

Wondercoin

19Lyds

<< <i>Here are the definitions that I obtained from PCGS as of 5/19/09 :

Weak Edge Lettering indicates the edge lettering has a portion of a letter/star or inscription missing. The missing part could be the serif of an "S” or "T" or part of a star.
Note: This variety will not be recognized if part of the edge design was caused by damage.

Partial Edge Lettering will have at least one complete letter or star missing.
Note: This variety will not be recognized if part of the edge design was caused by damage.

Double Edge Lettering-Overlap is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with both sets of lettering in the same direction.

Double Edge Lettering-Inverted is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with one set of lettering upside down.

Missing Edge Lettering is a coin which does not display any of the intended design on the edge of the coin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So as for my particular coin...
Double Edge Lettering-Overlap is a coin sent through the edge lettering device a second time with both sets of lettering in the same direction.

My coin does NOT have a second set of lettering.

I also receieved grading results on a Madison dollar that was cracked out of an ANACS Holder that was designated "Overlapping Edge Letters"
Results are:

Cert Verification #: 16294786
PCGS Coin #: E148058
Date, mintmark: 2007-P
Denomination: $1
Variety: James Madison Position A
Minor Variety:
Mint Error: E over P - Edge Lettering


An "E" Coin, which is what I expected. >>



Well it's settled then. PCGS Screwed up and should be made aware of the screw up. As for the seller, he's obligated to now refund your money. Through PayPal if necessary since the coin is "not as described". Misattributed or not, you paid $1754.95 for a $10.00 coin.

This will be a dificult situation because if you send the coin to PCGS, byebye refund as PCGS will crack it out and reslab it correctly.
For a refund, you really need to return the coin, as is, to the seller. I'd suggest clearer photographs, which enable identification, and notifying Mike Faraone. Unless they have the coin in hand though, there will be little they can do.

Please keep us updated.

wondercoin

"This will be a dificult situation because if you send the coin to PCGS, byebye refund as PCGS will crack it out and reslab it correctly."

Not if I walk it in for Jim. Unless PCGS wants to compensate Jim of course.

IMHO, there is very little more PCGS can do at this point without having a coin or two in hand to examine (even in the holder).

Wondercoin

19Lyds

<< <i>"This will be a dificult situation because if you send the coin to PCGS, byebye refund as PCGS will crack it out and reslab it correctly."

Not if I walk it in for Jim. Unless PCGS wants to compensate Jim of course.

IMHO, there is very little more PCGS can do at this point without having a coin or two in hand to examine (even in the holder).

Wondercoin >>



While I agree with you, it is still a precarious position to be in.

Silverstate

Lee,

I understand and agree with your concerns.

Mitch & Jaime will get this figured out.

Thanks.

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>Jim: Thanks for the "heads up". I'll see what I can possibly uncover tomorrow on this subject.

By the way, is this the only President with "Doubled Edge Lettering" that you are fairly certain is potentially misattributed at this point?

Wondercoin >>



Mitch,

I highly encourage review of these PCGS Coin Numbers.
PCGS # 400256 - 2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2)
PCGS # 415040 - 2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 413834 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 8)
PCGS # 414799 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2 + genuine)
PCGS # 419043 -2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 419044 - 2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)

They all came in a very short period of time. And I have confirmed with at least one other collector that his Tyler Overlapped that he purchased can be described almost exactly as mine has been. >>



I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins?

Silverstate

<< <i>I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins.

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins. >>



Ah yes, but they were purchased by your seller on Feb 19th.

Silverstate

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins. >>



Ah yes, but they were purchased by your seller on Feb 19th. >>



That explains how the Taylor Dollar Varieties made it into holders?




This is what a TRUE Doubled Edge coin looks like....

Kaelasdad

Just my 2 cents. I know the seller as well, and I sold one of the coins to him. Having dealt with the Adams double edges in the past, I was very aware that the coin was a shifted letter coin, and sold it as such. I had even attempted to have PCGS grade these types of coins as shifted letters overlapped, but they declined. The coin was purchased by the buyer on the belief that eventually, PCGS would accept the shifted letters coins and grade accordingly.

This is not a double edged lettering coin, as it did not go through the machine twice, it went through once and the lettering, stars, and dots seem to have shifted on the coin, in some places ending up as overlapped--obviously there was never to be an inverted, because the letters only ever hit the coin once.

I have a no return policy on my sales, unless the coin is not as described. Even with that policy, if a buyer decides that the coin isnt to their liking or standards, I make arrangements to replace the coin or refund. Like spots on the lincoln cents, some buyers are really hit unaware that these are so common.

I also understand that if i sold a mislabled coin, i would refund, no question. It would seem that the seller got the lables he fought for, and sold them as such. In his mind, the buyer got what was advertised, in a PCGS labled slab. And since he fought for the lable, it isnt mislabled. That doesnt make it right, and it doesnt make the coins proper. I think PCGS made an error because someone saw overlapped, and simply attributed them the same as other presidential overlapped coins.

These are not double edge lettering coins and the seller should do the right thing. What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem, but the seller will always have the egg on his face for his decision to keep the cash, and say to hell with common sense and the buyers. Not bright to alienate the top variety buyers.

19Lyds

The cert number in Jim's auction is no longer valid for display.

So far so good!

19Lyds

<< <i>Not bright to alienate the top variety buyers. >>



Ditto Kiddo!

Now the question that needs responding to is: How long will it take to get these off of the "required" list?

wondercoin

"What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem"

That is a very interesting position.... Jim paid under $2,000 for the coin. What if the coins would have sold for $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 (who knows what the others did, in fact, sell for)? Does PCGS write a check for ANY sum a buyer pays a seller?? What if PCGS values the coins at $25 plus a grading fee - roughly the exact price the coins fetched in a public auction the first time they were sold raw? Folks, we have roughly a $25 coin that got into a holder - perhaps the wrong holder? Does that mean PCGS is on the hook for $2,000, $5,000, $10,000/coin - any sum?? Since a "true" doubled edge lettering coin is nearly as easy to spot with the naked eye as a 55/55 doubled die cent, are buyers not responsible for reviewing their coins and returning clearly erroneously graded pieces to the seller for a refund? If there is NO RETURN POLICY which a buyer agrees to and pays $10,000 for one of these $25 raw coins - is that 100% PCGS' problem? I am taking no positions here... I am just welcoming your thoughts? Wondercoin.

19Lyds

<< <i>"What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem"

That is a very interesting position.... Jim paid under $2,000 for the coin. What if the coins would have sold for $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 (who knows what the others did, in fact, sell for)? Does PCGS write a check for ANY sum a buyer pays a seller?? What if PCGS values the coins at $25 plus a grading fee - roughly the exact price the coins fetched in a public auction the first time they were sold raw? Folks, we have roughly a $25 coin that got into a holder - perhaps the wrong holder? Does that mean PCGS is on the hook for $2,000, $5,000, $10,000/coin - any sum?? Since a "true" doubled edge lettering coin is nearly as easy to spot with the naked eye as a 55/55 doubled die cent, are buyers not responsible for reviewing their coins and returning clearly erroneously graded pieces to the seller for a refund? If there is NO RETURN POLICY which a buyer agrees to and pays $10,000 for one of these $25 raw coins - is that 100% PCGS' problem? I am taking no positions here... I am just welcoming your thoughts? Wondercoin. >>

While I don't think PCGS is fully financially responsible in the scenario's you outlined above, I do think that they should bear a "BULK" of the financial responsibility in THIS PARTICULAR case since it was PCGS which "designated" THIS PARTICULAR coin incorrectly. Full "sight unseen" trust that PCGS attributed the coin correctly was THE major factor in the buyers decision to purchase this coin. Had it been raw, I'm sure the buyer would not have commited such a large sum.

Additionally, since this was a "inhand unseen" eBay listing where typically buyers do not have the privilege of examining coins before bidding or buying and mearly work under the assumption that the coin they are purchasing has been correctly attributed, it cannot be compared to some other auction venue's where coin viewing is permited prior to committing large sums of money. On eBay, when it turns out that the coin is improperly attributed (which can happen), it's the responsibility of the seller to make the buyer whole.
However, in this case, the seller is claiming that PCGS attributed the coin correctly but the buyer is saying it is not and wants to return the coin. The seller, or so it appears, is refusing to honor a return request which is where half the problem is. The other half is whether or not the coin is properly attributed.

I think that once PCGS examines the coin in question, they should make their ruling available to the buyer AND the seller.
If the seller still refuses to honor the return request, I personally think that PCGS should step up and address the situation at least to the buyers satisfaction. However they want to address the submitter/seller and the other coins he submitted is between him and them.

The bottom line is that the buyer could lose a lot of money over PCGS's error in incorrectly attributing the coin so IMO, some responsibility should be assumed on PCGS's part.

I still do not understand how this misattribution could have happened.

wondercoin

Lee: Excellent answer. It made sense to me on virtually every front.

Wondercoin

Silverstate

The latest update is .....

My coin has been pulled from the database as well as (2) other registry participants that I can see.

So it looks like the score is
4 down, 12 to go.....

This should wake some people up.

19Lyds

Woke me up about 5 days ago!

Kaelasdad

I find it very interesting that the seller, who used to comment like crazy in caps about his wonderful finds, is so glaringly absent.

The buyer purchased this coin based on the reputation of PCGS, but the seller lost his by his actions before, during, and after the sale. Even with all the confusion about the lableing, he sold another coin last night. What a mess for the buyers and PCGS. the seller gets the cash and sold his reputation in the process

So, ever wonder what youre reputation is worth?

wondercoin

I saw the coin today before delivering it over to PCGS. I believe it is essentially as Jim has described it here. I know PCGS plans on examining it over the next few days. Hopefully, Jim can keep us posted on what it ultimately decided at PCGS.

Wondercoin

19Lyds

Given the fact that Jim's coin and one other like it have evidently been mis-attributed, I have serious concerns over the attribution of the following coins:

2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, FDI
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, Satin Finish
2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped

Silverstate

<< <i>Given the fact that Jim's coin and one other like it have evidently been mis-attributed, I have serious concerns over the attribution of the following coins:

2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, FDI <-----------------This one is in my Set. I am willing to prove it as needed on this one. - It is all there! It was graded on First Day Monroes came out.
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, Satin Finish <-------- I know where this one is...But it's not in my set. I believe it could be made available as needed as well.
2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped >>



As for the rest, all of which have been submitted by same person in the last 7-8 months...They are soon to be exposed as mis-labeled coins.
IMHO

19Lyds

Any updates on this Jim?

wondercoin

I just updated Jim.

Wondercoin

19Lyds

<< <i>I just updated Jim.

Wondercoin >>

Silverstate

The Coin is undergoing "Designation Review"...Hopefully it will not take too much longer.

Griv

This is insane!!!!!!!!

ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY FOUR varieties in 3 years and you want to make it 165?

There's 10 more years of this madness.

Plus, you know with the huge surplus the Mint has these errors will soon be common place.

I went through a hundred or so circulated rolls and found 12+ weak and missing errors. 1 has yet to be graded making this either 3 or 4 varieties I've found.

I think there is MORE sanity in the Satin Finish since they aren't surplussed at the Mint.

19Lyds

It is kinda screwy but it is what it is.

I've posted it before but here's the layout:

Position A (BTW, this "letter positioning variety" was in direct response to scammers calling them errors and selling them as such)
Position B (BTW, this "letter positioning variety" was in direct response to scammers calling them errors and selling them as such)
Missing Edge Lettering - MEL
Position A Weak Edge Lettering - WEL (Parts of letters or stars are missing)
Position B Weak Edge Lettering - WEL (Parts of letters or stars are missing)
Position A Partial Edge Lettering - PEL (Entire letters or stars are missing)
Position B Partial Edge Lettering - PEL (Entire letters or stars are missing)
Doubled Edge Lettering Overlapped - DELO
Doubled Edge Lettering Inverted - DELI

This is possible for EACH coin:

P Mint Business Strike - 8 possibilities
D Mint Business Strike - 8 possibilities
P Mint Satin Finish - 8 possibilities
D Mint Satin Finish - 8 possibilities
MEL Business Strike
MEL Satin Finish

Which means, each coin has the "potential" for 8 different varieties plus 2 MEL Varieties apiece or 34 coins per President. 4 Presidents per year comes to the "potential" of approximately 136 coins per year.

Personally, I think that the line between variety and error has been blurred by including the "obvious error coins" (MEL/DEL) in the registry and referring to them as "varieties" instead of "errors". Adding the "production condition coins" (WEL/PEL) falls into that category as well since it's the same as adding grease strike throughs to any major variety set as a "required" coin.

But, given the above blurring of that error/variety line, IMO, there really is no reason to NOT include a Shifted Double Lettering Overlap in the sets since the goal appears to be to find as many different coins as possible.

Coming up with an accurate name will be tough though, to prevent what occured with the coins in this thread.

Rampage

Silverstate

Lee,
I was with you until you said this...

<< <i>But, given the above blurring of that error/variety line, IMO, there really is no reason to NOT include a Shifted Double Lettering Overlap in the sets since the goal appears to be to find as many different coins as possible. >>



I guess If PCGS felt we needed yet another variety to collect, then it would need a more accurate name.
With all of the variety grading they are doing....I believe these shifted type varieties will not be part of the sets unless the Cherry pickers guide adds them in the future, then PCGS may consider them.
JMHO

Oh...And now we are at 166 coins and counting.....

19Lyds

<< <i>Lee,
I was with you until you said this...

<< <i>But, given the above blurring of that error/variety line, IMO, there really is no reason to NOT include a Shifted Double Lettering Overlap in the sets since the goal appears to be to find as many different coins as possible. >>



I guess If PCGS felt we needed yet another variety to collect, then it would need a more accurate name.
With all of the variety grading they are doing....I believe these shifted type varieties will not be part of the sets unless the Cherry pickers guide adds them in the future, then PCGS may consider them.
JMHO

Oh...And now we are at 166 coins and counting..... >>



166 "Required" but 199 including current 2010 Issues and excluding any WEL, PEL, MEL, or DEL coins yet to be "discovered" for the Pierce, Buchanan, and Lincoln Coins.
A base projected estimate would be 32 coins per year or 391 total coins for set completion (2016 end date) provided no additional error/veriety coins are "discovered". However, given the fact that the WEL coins seem so prevalent, that figure could jump to ell over an additional 400 coins.

Another thing which seems a bit bothersome with all of this is the ability to get Pop 1 and 2 "new discovery" coins included in the registry.

Silverstate

Lee,

That is one thing that is nice currently.

There are basic sets.
Major Sets
Complete sets

With Satin or Business strike Only or combined...

There are plently of ways to collect.

At least we don't have the 70 varieties of MN tree quarters to collect !

Of those, there at least (13) varieties that are pretty rare as of today.
And they are with pops of 4 or less.

Yes, there are many low pop Pres Dollars as well.
The great thing is that if we know the specific edge varieties and the correct definition of each,
that we are looking for, more will be discovered by a larger group of collectors as well.
Sounds, like Griv might have found a new one as well.

What is most important is that the Presidential Dollar Varieties be attributed with some consistantcy.

PCGS Is reviewing At least another Tyler Dollar presently as well.
Updates soon.....

19Lyds

Anything new on this Jim?

Silverstate

<< <i>Anything new on this Jim? >>



PCGS has been busy. I have heard anything today.

I will push hard tomorrow to get some info.

19Lyds

Still waiting.

Silverstate

....Still waiting....
PCGS says it's in line....What ever that means?

I am trying to remain patient on this.....

Silverstate

Still waiting.....