After reading Grey Reynolds article I'm thinking of sticking this slabbed coin in a manila envelope
SmallEagle
Posts: 736
Here's the slabbed coin (my avatar):
And here's part of the article about the 1901-s 25c that changed from blast white to beautifully toned MS68+.
So, this 1901-S quarter was in an NGC holder for around nineteen years. In 1990, it was extremely white. It now has a substantial amount of toning, which is apparently brownish-russet with some blue and greenish-blue highlights. Evidently, all of this quarter’s toning came about while it was in its NGC holder.
Matt Kleinsteuber is unsurprised. In “old first generation NGC plastic, some silver coins, that were certified when snow white, toned beautifully. The toning starts on the rims and moves inward. I [Matt] have seen very attractive [natural] toning on tons of silver coins in old NGC holders. Barber dimes and quarters come to mind. This [MS-68+] ‘01-S quarter is gorgeous.”
The notion of coins toning in NGC holders warrants discussion. Clearly, such toning is likely to be natural, as innumerable collectors, including some very advanced collectors, have kept their coins in NGC holders and will do so in the future. At first, I (this writer) thought that the coins might be interacting with substances in the soft, white plastic material that literally surrounds each coin in an NGC holder. Albanese refers to this piece as “the core” and he maintains that it cannot have contributed to any toning.
Albanese reveals that “the core” is made of a material that was extensively “tested by DuPont,” a leading chemical company, and determined to be “totally inert.” Albanese further explains that the holders are “not airtight” and were “never meant to be.” He acknowledges, though, that later NGC holders are “sealed tighter” than earlier ones. Either way, however, “air penetrates the holder.” (PCGS holders are not airtight either.)
In regard to toning, John has often consulted the founder of Intercept Shield, who is a leading expert in the toning and corrosion of metal, and in the conservation of metal historical objects. Albanese asserts that “coins are changing in [PCGS and NGC] holders every day, it is just happening so slowly that we don’t notice it.” Sometimes, toning takes decades to develop. Many ancient coins toned very gradually over a period of centuries.
One realistic possibility is that this 1901-S quarter, when it was in an NGC holder, was placed in an envelope, maybe a 5” by 8” manila envelope. Given the color and overall nature of the toning, it is likely that this coin was stored properly. Substances interacted with it that are the same, or very similar, to those substances found in envelopes and albums that mainstream collectors of coins have used for many decades. Albanese suggests that substances reached the coin by traveling by way of “moisture in the air.”
And here's part of the article about the 1901-s 25c that changed from blast white to beautifully toned MS68+.
So, this 1901-S quarter was in an NGC holder for around nineteen years. In 1990, it was extremely white. It now has a substantial amount of toning, which is apparently brownish-russet with some blue and greenish-blue highlights. Evidently, all of this quarter’s toning came about while it was in its NGC holder.
Matt Kleinsteuber is unsurprised. In “old first generation NGC plastic, some silver coins, that were certified when snow white, toned beautifully. The toning starts on the rims and moves inward. I [Matt] have seen very attractive [natural] toning on tons of silver coins in old NGC holders. Barber dimes and quarters come to mind. This [MS-68+] ‘01-S quarter is gorgeous.”
The notion of coins toning in NGC holders warrants discussion. Clearly, such toning is likely to be natural, as innumerable collectors, including some very advanced collectors, have kept their coins in NGC holders and will do so in the future. At first, I (this writer) thought that the coins might be interacting with substances in the soft, white plastic material that literally surrounds each coin in an NGC holder. Albanese refers to this piece as “the core” and he maintains that it cannot have contributed to any toning.
Albanese reveals that “the core” is made of a material that was extensively “tested by DuPont,” a leading chemical company, and determined to be “totally inert.” Albanese further explains that the holders are “not airtight” and were “never meant to be.” He acknowledges, though, that later NGC holders are “sealed tighter” than earlier ones. Either way, however, “air penetrates the holder.” (PCGS holders are not airtight either.)
In regard to toning, John has often consulted the founder of Intercept Shield, who is a leading expert in the toning and corrosion of metal, and in the conservation of metal historical objects. Albanese asserts that “coins are changing in [PCGS and NGC] holders every day, it is just happening so slowly that we don’t notice it.” Sometimes, toning takes decades to develop. Many ancient coins toned very gradually over a period of centuries.
One realistic possibility is that this 1901-S quarter, when it was in an NGC holder, was placed in an envelope, maybe a 5” by 8” manila envelope. Given the color and overall nature of the toning, it is likely that this coin was stored properly. Substances interacted with it that are the same, or very similar, to those substances found in envelopes and albums that mainstream collectors of coins have used for many decades. Albanese suggests that substances reached the coin by traveling by way of “moisture in the air.”
Who is John Galt?
0
Comments
Stick it in a manila and place it by the window in sunlight.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe I should have thown in some Taco Bell napkins instead...
<< <i>Just yesterday a seller of coins recommended that I take a 1796 10c AU50 and put it in a zip log back with a couple of match sticks. At first I thought it was a joke but now I believe that he was serious. Has anybody else ever heard of this?
Bad idea, I think. If a small piece of match dust rests directly on the coin, it will likely form a nasty black spot over time.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Who is John Galt?
They multiply a great deal when they're in something other than the wrong hands.
That is a very beautiful quarter! Congrats. I hope it remains as lovely as it is today.
Lance.
<< <i>A few years ago I had a dipped white Texas half dollar in an old fatty NGC slab. It was a very nice coin, possibly undergraded, but I just didn't like the freshly dipped look. I tried a similar tactic. I put the coin in a manila envelope, thew in a couple of matchsticks and put it in the attic. After a year the coin looked exactly like it did when I put it in there. I didn't have the patience to wait 18 more years so I just sold the coin.
Maybe I should have thown in some Taco Bell napkins instead... >>
You also need air flow....
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
PLEASE, let's see the reverse, too.
Wait, wait, nevermind. I just scrolled down and see that somebody already asked.
NGC should be closed for ruining beautiful coins like this.
<< <i>I wouldn't be so proud to have an NCS coin as my avatar. Having it tone will not help. Once a coin is stripped it is done. Even if it is PL. Bet that thing won't cross.
NGC should be closed for ruining beautiful coins like this. >>
From the OP it appears as if this 1796 Quarter is an NGC MS64PL. Where do you get NCS from?
<< <i>Just yesterday a seller of coins recommended that I take a 1796 10c AU50 and put it in a zip log back with a couple of match sticks. At first I thought it was a joke but now I believe that he was serious. Has anybody else ever heard of this?
I would recommend against that action. Ugly grey/black powdery coating will cover the coin. Not the look that is desired.
Not true, I did this coin with matches, and air tight container. Edited to add the op's coin is a killer coin, I wouldn't change a thing with it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just yesterday a seller of coins recommended that I take a 1796 10c AU50 and put it in a zip log back with a couple of match sticks. At first I thought it was a joke but now I believe that he was serious. Has anybody else ever heard of this?
I would recommend against that action. Ugly grey/black powdery coating will cover the coin. Not the look that is desired. >>
The coin is in a PCGS holder and I have no plans to every do anything to any coin I have the will change the appearance intentionally.
there's something to be said for seeing a 200+ year old coin look exactly as it did the day it was minted.
A coin can still be prooflike if it was cleaned. NGC loves grading those coins.
<< <i>How in the world can a 200 year old coins remain blast white? That is impossible! This coin has been stripped and dipped.
A coin can still be prooflike if it was cleaned. NGC loves grading those coins. >>
Agree. A blast white silver coin that's 200 years looks unnatural and just plain weird.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As I said in my third article on natural toning:
“Parts of the coin are destroyed [when it is dipped], and, while some coins can largely recover, parts of the nature and history of each coin are lost forever. ... Luster is the way that the metal flow lines on a coin reflect light. When layers are stripped via dipping, the characteristics of the flow lines are changed. The coin may end up being ... even brighter (or less bright) than it was the moment it was minted.
“There are subtle or sometimes blatant differences in the original finishes of coins. For example, OConnor mentions that some classic commemoratives were made with “matte textures” while others were minted with “frosty finishes,” and still others are “semi-prooflike.”
“I [this writer] maintain, in the 19th century, there were a substantial variety of differences in the finishes of coins, most of which are almost impossible to explain, yet are important to examine. ”
I am saying now:
Dipping often destroys many aspects of the finish of a coin. Consider that 1796 quarters have finishes that are much different from those of 1804 to 1807, and there are different trace metals on the surfaces. When a coin is first dipped or when it is subject to a later dipping that is more forceful than earlier dippings, material that was on the coin when it was minted is being destroyed. Different methods, techniques, instruments and liquids are used in the die preparation process in different years, and sometimes for different issues in the same year.
This thread relates to this article: MS-68+ 1901-S Quarter
Natural Toning, Dipping and Coin Doctoring, Part 1
Natural Toning, Dipping and Coin Doctoring, Part 3
PCGS Message Board Thread about Collecting Naturally Toned Coins Articles
Toning is nothing more than various silver and copper compounds that develop within the surface of the coin as soon as it is struck. Absent other changes, a toned coin will weigh more than it did when fresh from the dies. As Greg noted, chemical conversion of these compounds back to elemental silver and copper is incomplete, and can leave undesirable secondary reaction products. Some chemicals will remove silver, others will remove silver compounds, others will act one way on copper and another on silver. The bottom line is that once a coin tones, it cannot be totally restored to original condition.
<< <i>...In regard to toning, John has often consulted the founder of Intercept Shield, who is a leading expert in the toning and corrosion of metal, and in the conservation of metal historical objects. >>
Consulted with him? Hell, Intercept Shield and CAC share the same PO BOX last time I looked!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website