My thoughts & stratigies for the next 19 months.

SilverBaron

Well .... Yesterday I sold all but 1 of my numismatic items.... and it will go at the summer fun SHOW.

We are talking a serious 6 figures. Reason being ........

Our state and federal governments are so desperate for every cent that you can feel the desperation in the air.

19 months from now .... or sooner...

1) VAT tax. The VAT tax will become a reality. Coins will NOT be exempt. Are you willing to a VAT tax on $1000 + coins?

I know that I am not .... and I WAS a hard core collector for over 40 years.

I am hoping that PMs will be exempt. Gold is exempt in most countries ... but not silver or the other PMs.

2) The $600 1099 reporting law. This law will not be repealed ... It might be altered for buying furniture &

appliances if you pay by credit card or check ...... but coins? .... not a chance.

$600 in any given YEAR?!?! ..... all in the name of Homeland Security fighting terrorism.

[ You do not know how bad I want to go political here!! ]

3) A bill is in the works for all internet sellers to be REQUIRED to collect the sales,

and VAT, tax on every transaction, without regard for state of residency.

Again, are you willing to pay these taxes?

So ...... My personal stratigies for the next 19 months are simple.

1) Sell all numismatic items. (Done)
2) Keep all PMs, including the large bars. Keep on BUYING .... because I believe PMs are still a great value!!
3) Limit most purchases of PMs to smaller sizes. For gold & platinum .... 1 gram, 5 gram, 1/10 & 1/4 oz.
For silver .... nothing larger than 10 oz. .... and heavy on the 1oz's. for .999 and heavy on the 90%.

Call me paranoid ....... Say I'm over reacting ..... Well, with the desperation of this government and the way
I see things going ......... I may be wrong about some of this .... but I think this is something each of us should think about.

I hope that this gives everyone something to think about ..... Better to have a stratgie that you like than be blindsided.

Keep on Stack'n!!

OPA

<< <i>Call me parinoid . >>



How about paranoid.

FistFullOfDollars

My personal stratigies for the next 19 months are simple.


yup... I am on the same page

Weiss

Divested from numismatics about 16 months ago, save for a couple dozen widgety items. Traded some of my better pieces outright for PMs, used the proceeds from sales of the others to buy PMs. No regrets at all.

I'm not sure how much deeper into PMs I'll go, but I understand your feelings and I'm right there with you on just about everything you said.

KUCH

What is your 19 month strategy for equities? Stocks/Bonds?

Robb

I agree with most everything except for part one of number 3:



<< <i>3) Limit most purchases of PMs to smaller sizes. For gold & platinum .... 1 gram, 5 gram, 1/10 & 1/4 oz.
For silver .... nothing larger than 10 oz. .... and heavy on the 1oz's. for .999 and heavy on the 90%. >>



The premium for 1gram, 5 gram and 1/10oz. is too much for me. Some well respond with, "Well when you sell you'll get that premium back." but the reality is that in a SHTF scenario, you won't.

yellowkid

<< <i>

<< <i>Call me parinoid . >>



How about paranoid. >>




No VAT in the immediate future.

AboutAg

<< <i>2) The $600 1099 reporting law. This law will not be repealed ... It might be altered for buying furniture &
appliances if you pay by credit card or check ...... but coins? .... not a chance.
$600 in any given YEAR?!?! ..... all in the name of Homeland Security fighting terrorism. >>



FWIW, there is a lot of misinformation about this one.

This applies to businesses that BUY something. A 1099 would only be involved with furniture if you SOLD the used furniture you bought to a store, and you got over $600 for it. The forms go to the IRS, not homeland security. They are used to verify that people are reporting the income they receive.

You can still buy as much precious metals or coins as you want under the radar (unless you hit the $10k limit and are paying with cash or the like). And it does not affect the amount of tax that you pay on any gains selling the precious metals (or used furniture or whatever).

gecko109

Its almost scary just how closely this strategy has been imitated by myself over the PAST 19 months! At about that time, I had started liquidating all my numismatic NON bullion coins (about an $18,000 collection) to focus on bullion tied items. Then about 6-8 months ago I began the liquidation of my bullion that had numismatic ties (my gold pandas) in order to focus more on straight bullion. I began doing this for a slightly different reason, but in the same general ballpark. I think the worst is still to come regarding the economy, and if im right, alot of people will be hurting unfortunately. Since the global economy doesnt really care about flying cents or bust halves, I didnt want to be holding the bag on those when things really get bad. Sure, those coins were very pretty, and super fun to chase and collect, but at the end of the day they are all just shiny collectibles. Gold and silver bullion are actual forms of wealth. They have standardized values and are not subject to "opinions about grade", "eye appeal", or how legit the slab is. I wanted to position myself and my family to have something of value that is not only recognized the world over, but MAY be the entity that eventually replaces fiat!

And if I sound like a doomsdayer, I apologize. In fact, I genuinely hope all I have said above never happens! In that case, I still have a tiny nest egg for my family in the form of bullion.

OPA

Thank you AboutAg for clarifying the 1099 issue.

gecko109

<< <i>I agree with most everything except for part one of number 3:



<< <i>3) Limit most purchases of PMs to smaller sizes. For gold & platinum .... 1 gram, 5 gram, 1/10 & 1/4 oz.
For silver .... nothing larger than 10 oz. .... and heavy on the 1oz's. for .999 and heavy on the 90%. >>



The premium for 1gram, 5 gram and 1/10oz. is too much for me. Some well respond with, "Well when you sell you'll get that premium back." but the reality is that in a SHTF scenario, you won't. >>





In a true SHTF scenario, the guy with 31 of the 1gram bars will be far better off than the guy with a 1oz bar. Just think of all the places that wont even accept a $100 bill today.....now multiply that by a factor of 20 or more in a true SHTF!

edmundfitzgerald

My job is where I make my living, not off selling PM's, so I'm not really concerned about how much the
government takes from me. I'll continue to spend my life buying what I like to collect, with no outside influence as to
where my direction will take me.

For those of you who make a living buying & selling PM's, then I think this should be something you consider.

Robb

<< <i>In a true SHTF scenario, the guy with 31 of the 1gram bars will be far better off than the guy with a 1oz bar. Just think of all the places that wont even accept a $100 bill today.....now multiply that by a factor of 20 or more in a true SHTF! >>



Be prepared for a leap in logic and a doomsday scenario that should be in a Sci-Fi novel... but... If it truly came to that, I would imagine that vendors and traders would be more than willing to accept cut up bars and rounds, etc. If that were the case, the best bang for your buck would be the 1oz. bar/round.

And no, that's not something that I think will happen but just a thought of value for the money. I don't understand why some will complain and moan until the cows come home about paying taxes on PMs yet they'll happily pay premiums on gold the size of a dime.

SilverBaron

OPA ....... Mind working faster than the fingers!

KUCH ..... I sold all of my "paper" Tuesday afternoon.

Robb ...... Over all you are right .... buttt .... if you watch for deals, you can minimize the premiums.

Yellowkid ....... I sure do hope you are right ..... butttt......

AboutAg ..... " This applies to businesses that BUY something " ....... and where/who do most folks SELL their PMs to? ... and yes, the form does go to the IRS....but the excuse is...

Gecko109 ...... "I genuinely hope all I have said above never happens! In that case, I still have a tiny nest egg for my family in the form of bullion." ... I agree on both counts!!


Over all ...... good responses.


Keep on Stack'n!

mhammerman

Yes, a shift in strategy is necessary. Gecko's got it rite methinks. The boomer model is dead, on to the future.

Classof67

<< <i>Yes, a shift in strategy is necessary. Gecko's got it rite methinks. The boomer model is dead, on to the future. >>



I agree.

Konahead

sebrown

We share the same sentiment SB. I sold all my numismatic items at this past Jan Heritage FUN auction and reallocated the proceeds strickly to PMs. Peace of mind in these turbulent times is what matters most.

edmundfitzgerald

Well, I took your advice and bought (5) five gram pamp suisse gold bars yesterday for 1050.00

RedHerring

<< <i>Well, I took your advice and bought (5) five gram pamp suisse gold bars yesterday for 1050.00 >>



That's a good price for 5g bars.

-----------------------------------

Bought 2 of these last week for $41/each delivered. Should have bought all 4 that were available.

jmski52

I think that precious metals in all forms are (and will be) critical to own. Some Modern Bullion such as the 2008-W Gold Buffs and almost all of the 2006-W & 2008-W Modern Bullion issues have become popular and now have nice premiums, but I still justify keeping them in order to 1) defer taxes on any gains if I were to sell them now, 2) limit my transaction costs by not selling them if I don't need to, and 3) because I still like them.

I know that as the pog rises, some stuff will lose premium, but it will self-compensate by the increase in the base bullion price. If the pog reverses, the opposite is somewhat likely to be true - the scarce stuff will still be scarce stuff. If TSHTF, then it all goes to bullion and I can live with that because it will still serve its purpose as a negotiable asset.

I don't know about the VAT - its likelihood of becoming a reality or not, but it would simply kill any chance of prosperity returning any time soon. In that case, the precious metals you save now will be your best hope for wealth preservation, and the whole point of wealth preservation is to have a rainy day fund for whatever purpose arises. The $600 reporting requirement will affect everyone, because it won't matter whether you are the dealer or the client, both parties will have to submit information - the client submits personal info to the dealer and the dealer submits it to the govt. It's a business-killer, and the paperwork is yet another burden.

The money gained by the government for this kind of stuff is minescule compared to the billions of $'s that Fannie and Freddie continue to siphon off into the corruption wormhole.

With CNBC chattering about the "moral hazard" continuing to increase with the bailout of Greece, I continue to wonder how a new monetary system could NOT be forced to include gold as its foundation. Every type of fiat arrangement seems to breed corruption from top to bottom, but mostly at the top since that's who makes the rules and that's where the impacts of decisions are felt first.

I still can't rationalize putting money into anything but precious metals for longterm safekeeping. I try, but I can't come up with a better alternative right now.

1jester

If anyone thinks the new $600 filing minimum is only for IRS purposes, you are deluding yourself. The truth is that the control grid is tightening down big time, and unless we Americans stand up against it, we will all experience a horrendous decline in quality of life. Thus, I would recommend not only voting out the ba$tards, and hopefully replacing them with real Americans who are willing to uphold the Constitution, but also taking what little time we might have left to acquire the PMs that will help us survive the coming mega-storm.

dbcoin

My strategy is the OPPOSITE of yours.

I am selling all my low end numismatics and all my PM's now and I am converting into higher end numismatics. So selling AU58, MS62 gold and buying MS 65 gold. The premiums on the low end junk is so high right now that I can almost sell a MS62 and buy/trade for a MS65 for a few hundred bucks.

I would fear a VAT or some other confiscation on low end PM's but not on the high end stuff. There are still people at shows/whatever who will deal in cash with no questions.

greatnortherncoin

same here, sold almost all the collector coins, 8k so to buy the gold and silver same here....

Bear

I am mid ground. I have a few hundred ounces of silver and a handful of

extremely high grade silver type halves and dollars.In addition, I have a

few hundred dollars face ,of silver coinage. I really do not know what the future

holds ,except that the next ten years will probably very difficult indeed.

Justacommeman

I understand the OP's points and a motiffs and I certainly respect them. However, I'm kind of doing the opposite. I started preparing for the SHTF scenario long ago and put my ducks where I wanted them. I bunked down. The past year or so I've been planting financial seeds in hopes for a revival of the economy at some point in the future. I have no idea how this is all going to turn out. I'm still pessimistic about the world in general but I'm hoping for the best. I'm still buying pm's but I'm also buying "other" things as well. Good luck to all of us.....Being prepared is good. MJ

Patches

I balance PM's with numismatic items. If the economy goes south, I have something against it that way...if things pickup, hopefully the numismatic items do well. Seems irrational to put eggs all in one basket.

Generally it seems the masses are wrong, and at least where I work...everyone thinks things are horrible right now with no end in sight. Probably the time to get into positive attitude and investment vehicles.

EagleEye

The problem with collector coins, is their illiquidity in uncertain times. During the credit crisis there were times when dealers had no idea how to value the coins being offered them. That is not good. Of course, things have changed substantially since September '08. This is the only negative I see in rare coins. People want to own them, and will pay to get them. The type of catastrophe that would kill their viability has already come and was thankfully averted and coins passed the test. If you are looking for "End days" scenarios, Then PMs won't help you either.

As for a VAT, I doubt it could be instituted as you may envision it, like a sales tax. What will probably come down is a hidden VAT on imported oil. There may already be one.

As for the $600 reporting law, I don't like it and I think it is going to be a burden on us all, however I don't see it as a the draconian Governmental intrusion some of you have made it out to be. If you don't like it, then I'm sure you were not in favor of the Patriot Act either (hypocrisy test here). It's just enforcing the existing laws. (where have I heard that before)

yellowkid

As for the $600 reporting law, I don't like it and I think it is going to be a burden on us all, however I don't see it as a the draconian Governmental intrusion some of you have made it out to be. If you don't like it, then I'm sure you were not in favor of the Patriot Act either (hypocrisy test here). It's just enforcing the existing laws. (where have I heard that before) >>



Good point!

roadrunner

would fear a VAT or some other confiscation on low end PM's but not on the high end stuff. There are still people at shows/whatever who will deal in cash with no questions.

US "FRN's" exist in somewhat limited quantities compared to electronic cash. In any crunch period there will be a hoarding of cash as well. Coin dealers won't be able to get it near as easily as they have in the past.

Silver Barron's thoughts make sense to me. Also expect windfall profits taxes to be applied to bullion sales. After all, all our economic woes are the direct result of rising gold and silver prices.


roadrunner