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Seated Quarter experts please help

coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I just received an expensive coin in the mail. It is housed in an ANACS holder graded VG10.
The problem is the holder looks to have been glued together which makes me very suspicious.
The coin itself, although I’m sure it must have been dipped at some, time does not look to bad to me but I would like some expert opinions.
Normally I would just send it back immediately but in this case it might be another 10 years before I could find an undamaged 1849-O quarter in a grade that I can afford that still has some detail left.
I guess my question is: do you see anything wrong with this coin that would stop PCGS from grading it?
And have you seen ANACS holders with this kind of “damage” before?
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Thanks for any advice!

Comments

  • mcarney1173mcarney1173 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I cracked an ANACS slab yesterday, and that "white" plastic look was what I saw when I started to break it open. I'd be suspicious!
  • rld14rld14 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭
    Those slabs are horrible for that, I lightly dropped one on a table once and it popped open.

    You can crack those with your bare hands with ease.
    Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suspect the coin was lightly dipped, but it is a very nice example of the tough 1849-O. I would not count on it getting into a PCGS slab. If you're not happy with it as a raw coin, don't buy it.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ross: I am less concerned about the ANACS holder as I am with whether the coin will grade out at PCGS. Would you be OK with receiving a "genuine" grade for the coin if that were to happen? If not, perhaps you may want to discuss that with your seller prior to the return privilege ending, assuming there is a return privilege. You can obviously find out whether the coin will grade out at PCGS rather quickly depending upon how much money you are comfortable paying to grade the coin. Under the Express tier, you can probably get the coin back in 5 or 6 business days ($50+ $8 fee) if that is fast enough for you? I would be happy to pick the coin up from you tomorrow and submit it tomorrow afternoon if you desire. Perhaps you can confirm a return privilege assuming the coin fails to receive a grade, unless you are fine with the coin coming back in a genuine holder? I think we can specify a minimum grade (say VG-8 or better) or do not cross... OR- OK to cross as genuine too. Your call. Happy to help if you want it.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just received an expensive coin in the mail. It is housed in an ANACS holder graded VG10.
    The problem is the holder looks to have been glued together which makes me very suspicious.
    The coin itself, although I’m sure it must have been dipped at some, time does not look to bad to me but I would like some expert opinions.
    Normally I would just send it back immediately but in this case it might be another 10 years before I could find an undamaged 1849-O quarter in a grade that I can afford that still has some detail left.
    I guess my question is: do you see anything wrong with this coin that would stop PCGS from grading it?
    And have you seen ANACS holders with this kind of “damage” before?

    This coin may have come from Dick Osborn. I would email Dick and ask if he sold it to the ebay seller and if it was in a damaged holder if/when he sold it. Ebay seller describes this as a quote from Dick as 'original'. I have purchased from the Ebay seller and did not have a problem. It would appear that he may have purhcased some coins from Dick to re-sell on the Bay...IMHO.

    By the way, I thought you did alright for the price....wishing I would have seen it first.

    The coin looks gradable to me IMHO but who the heck REALLY knows.

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭
    FastFreddie, you are quite the coin detective for a new member.
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    It is a nice looking quarter regardless of the plastic. Very rare date, and tough to replace.
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>FastFreddie, you are quite the coin detective for a new member. >>



    What can I say...seated quarters are almost the only thing I look at.
    The obverse is an F12 but the 'Y' on Liberty looks a bit funky. Nice slight seperation on the sandal too. Reverse is a 15, dare I say 20, and has a nice strong shield and slight detail on the arrow feathers but no detail on the leaves. If they feel it problem free it might get the 15 because of the rarity...IMHO.
    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't see anything seriously wrong that would preclude the coin from crossing but you just never know. The black "spot" on the reverse above the arrows, is that just toning or an actual depression/punch/crevice? If that's deep, it could be a problem. The reverse seems brighter than the front but as long as there are no signs of polishing, burnishing, or heavy cleaning it seems gradable as VG. It's certainly better than most rare date VG's I run across in top tier G-VG holders. I recently had a G-4 ANACS 42-0 sd quarter than I crossed over to a PCGS G-6. It was totally original and evenly toned. In my experiences PCGS is more apt to cross an ANACS coin like this than an NGC one. In the ANACS holder the coin is worth 10-20% less than PCGS when it comes time to sell....assuming you ever do. If this coin was purchased from Osburn and is now being priced higher, you're better off going back to Osburn to find another. There's no free lunch here.

    My biggest concern would be if the coin were bent or something else that couldn't be noticed w/o it removed from the holder. The date and mint mark are all correct for a 49-0 quarter. Can you verify the smaller N.O. reeding as well? (110 reed count vs 113 for Philly). There should be some raised die defects directly behind Liberty's head band and also about halfway between her head and pole fingers.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I.

    My biggest concern would be if the coin were bent couldn't be noticed w/o it removed from the holder.

    roadrunner >>



    you dont have much faith in ANACS do you?
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I.

    My biggest concern would be if the coin were bent couldn't be noticed w/o it removed from the holder.

    roadrunner >>



    you dont have much faith in ANACS do you? >>



    Especially a broken ANACS holder.
    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't see anything seriously wrong that would preclude the coin from crossing but you just never know. The black "spot" on the reverse above the arrows, is that just toning or an actual depression/punch/crevice? If that's deep, it could be a problem. The reverse seems brighter than the front but as long as there are no signs of polishing, burnishing, or heavy cleaning it seems gradable as VG. It's certainly better than most rare date VG's I run across in top tier G-VG holders. I recently had a G-4 ANACS 42-0 sd quarter than I crossed over to a PCGS G-6. It was totally original and evenly toned. In my experiences PCGS is more apt to cross an ANACS coin like this than an NGC one. In the ANACS holder the coin is worth 10-20% less than PCGS when it comes time to sell....assuming you ever do. If this coin was purchased from Osburn and is now being priced higher, you're better off going back to Osburn to find another. There's no free lunch here.

    My biggest concern would be if the coin were bent or something else that couldn't be noticed w/o it removed from the holder. The date and mint mark are all correct for a 49-0 quarter. Can you verify the smaller N.O. reeding as well? (110 reed count vs 113 for Philly). There should be some raised die defects directly behind Liberty's head band and also about halfway between her head and pole fingers.

    roadrunner >>



    This is some good info.

    Does anyone count reeds?
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    The best way is to take a philly coin and hold it next to the target coin. The NO should have finer reading. And yest some people actually count them. I do not, I do the method I described.
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623 ✭
    Not its first skin but not bad either, 50/50 on the cross
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭
    WonderCoin to the rescue.

    Mitch (WonderCoin) has picked up the coin and brought it to PCGS with instructions to cross at VG8 or better.

    We should know in about a week if this coin meets the industry standard for quality (I am assuming from this thread that this coin is authentic).

    Thank you WonderCoin for allowing me a comfortable solution to a sticky problem.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Happy to help a good guy!

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    I think you should get it to cross, maybe not at grade. I wouldn't worry too much about the "glue" it doesn't look like the coin was affected. I would have still bought it if it was raw, as a matter of fact I think I was an underbidder on that auction. Ebay about a week and a half ago, no?
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think you should get it to cross, maybe not at grade. I wouldn't worry too much about the "glue" it doesn't look like the coin was affected. I would have still bought it if it was raw, as a matter of fact I think I was an underbidder on that auction. Ebay about a week and a half ago, no? >>



    Really? What is the most you would spend on a raw coin in a series you are not familiar with? and what would you grade this coin?
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We are picking up your coin from PCGS this morning. I sent you a PM with the outcome.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    Ah come on, the suspense is killing me. Tell us the grade please!
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Going by the pictures, I'd say that it was cleaned, probably some time ago. It now has some brownish - yellow toning.

    As for the VG grade I'd call it marginal. Sure it's got some of the "LIBERTY" but the overall look is just a bit ahead of Good. I'm not a Seated Quarter expert so I don't fully appreciate the rarity of this date. But if I could find one that looked more original in one of the "big two grading company" holders, I opt for that instead of ANACS.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Going by the pictures, I'd say that it was cleaned, probably some time ago. It now has some brownish - yellow toning.

    As for the VG grade I'd call it marginal. Sure it's got some of the "LIBERTY" but the overall look is just a bit ahead of Good. I'm not a Seated Quarter expert so I don't fully appreciate the rarity of this date. But if I could find one that looked more original in one of the "big two grading company" holders, I opt for that instead of ANACS. >>



    If you ever find such a coin let me know, but I think it is possible that they do not exist.
    Until then I will have to settle for a not totaly original example.

    As far as the technical grade of the coin im sure it is closer to 12 than 8
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    Based on your reply, I am assuming it didn't cross?
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Based on your reply, I am assuming it didn't cross? >>



    Actualy, the word is that the coin is now in a PCGS VG8 holder.

    I consider this a very reasonable example of net grading.
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    Congrats on that, as it is no small accomplishment. Coin is still a nice example of a very tough date.

    I have a 53 no arrows, in an similiar ANACS holder I need to get crossed. Have to send that in.
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Excellent results. I'm glad it worked out. The coin has much more market value in this holder. I think everyone is being way too critical of the coin possibly having once been cleaned, etc. It's the same logic when showing MS66-67 coins to someone and they reject it for the tiniest of marks or minute strike weakness regardless of anything else. It's a VG 1849-0 quarter that's over 150 yrs old. Probably only 125-175 still exist today in all grades.

    My biggest concern would be if the coin were bent couldn't be noticed w/o it removed from the holder. .............

    <<you dont have much faith in ANACS do you?>>

    It depends. It's pretty easy to get varying opinions on a very slight degree of bend in a coin or some other minor defect (spot removed, tiny scratch, rim cuts or bangs, etc.). Many times a service won't even see the minor defect. Half dimes are notorious for minute bends. Do you think every coin gets spun on the table to see if it's bent? Fwiw the last 2 ANACS seated coins I bought that were both undergraded/underpriced imo would not cross - one was a gem cameo proof and was called altered surfaces by PCGS (either lasered or frosted) and the other was an 1866 quarter in AU55 (that was really MS62+ due to the usual weak striking). The 1866 came back as AT. It was odd that no dealer that I showed the proof to could definitely point to the alteration....yet PCGS was consistent in their opinion on 2 submissions. Yeah, I'm more vigilent when it comes to ANACS coins than I was before.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I now have the coin in hand and it really looks great in the holder! It looks like a STRONG problem-free VG coin. Coolest should love how the coin looks and no doubt he may post a pic of it once he gets it in hand.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭
    Thanks to Wondercoin!!
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mitch has done me well on more
    than one occasion.As far as I'm
    concerned,hes the best.
  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is an 1849-o PCGS F12 just listed on the bay. It is ever so close you your example - maybe just a bit more detail, especially on the obverse. It will be interesting to see what it fetches as I am sure there will be a lot of interested parties - including me. The item number is 260601674234 and has 9 days left. So if you got yours holdered VG8 then I'd say you did alright in the current era of 'diamond pressure' tight grading.
    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • coolestcoolest Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭


    << <i>There is an 1849-o PCGS F12 just listed on the bay. It is ever so close you your example - maybe just a bit more detail, especially on the obverse. It will be interesting to see what it fetches as I am sure there will be a lot of interested parties - including me. The item number is 260601674234 and has 9 days left. So if you got yours holdered VG8 then I'd say you did alright in the current era of 'diamond pressure' tight grading. >>



    Wow, I think ever so close is right!

    I have been looking for many years now two show up within a few weeks.

    Maybe I should have two?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1849-O-Rare-date-Seated-quarter-PCGS-F-12-estatesale-/260601674234?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3cad11f9fa

    Let us guess the sale price

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