How many dollar coins were made in 2009?
ProofArtworkonCircs
Posts: 4,223 ✭
Can somebody explain this to me?
The US Mint web site says 71.26 million Native American dollars were made and 352.38 million Presidential dollars under 2009 mintage.
Under Presidential dollars it says 352,100,000 were made. That doesn't quite match. Taking the largest figure we have a total of 423,64 million made.
Now look at the Treasury statements of "U.S. Currency and Coin Outstanding and in Circulation" for Dec 31, 2009 and December 31, 2008.
It shows a total increase of dollar coins for the year as 1,914,420,000! Most of that increase is listed as in circulation (a gain of 1,642,838,392).
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The US Mint web site says 71.26 million Native American dollars were made and 352.38 million Presidential dollars under 2009 mintage.
Under Presidential dollars it says 352,100,000 were made. That doesn't quite match. Taking the largest figure we have a total of 423,64 million made.
Now look at the Treasury statements of "U.S. Currency and Coin Outstanding and in Circulation" for Dec 31, 2009 and December 31, 2008.
It shows a total increase of dollar coins for the year as 1,914,420,000! Most of that increase is listed as in circulation (a gain of 1,642,838,392).
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Comments
question : which is the observed, and which is the attributed (derived) : the Presidential Dollar minage or the Sacagawea ?
<< <i>I do hope this is all in preparation for the retirement of the dollar bill. >>
Probably in preparation to retire the dollar altogether and go with the Amero
JK
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/coin_production/?action=production_figures
Here is the Treasury Bulletin URL that contains the table for Dec 31 2009.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/index.html
This shows 5,446,949,008 total dollar coins outstanding including 481,781,898 standard silver dollars.
I did a quick calculation adding up mintages and got a number of 5,345 million dollars.
So now it appears that the bulk of the descrepancy is in the Dec 31, 2008 number of 3,505,529,008 dollar coins which is low by about one and half billion.
I have a copy of the Dec 2008 table in my notebook, but can't find a reference to it on the net now.
If 352 million Presidential dollars were made, at least 88 million Native American dollars were supposed to be minted, not 71 million.
It has been stated that the Federal Reserve ordered no native American dollars at all. Could the mint and Treasury be that sucessful in getting rid of nearly all of them? The Treasury stockpile went up by only 1 million for the year.
There is shown NO $100 United Staes Notes as outstanding. Footnote 6 says "Represents prior month adjustment.
I thought United States Notes were now supposed to be called "United States Currency Notes". I know none have been printed'since that requirement was added.
and in December 2008, the mint started to make 2009 coins in December of 2008 but group'd that mintage with the total of 2008's
so subtract 24.64 (2008 total) - (3.6 total 2008's Sacs) = (21.04 total 2009 Sacs made in Dec 2008)
so add that 21.04 + (71.26 total 2009 Sacs) = 92.3 (total 2009 business strike Sacs)
i think this is right and hope this helps your number crunching ??? Snowman
US mint production figures
and in December 2008, the mint started to make 2009 coins in December of 2008 but group'd that mintage with the total of 2008's
so subtract 24.64 (2008 total) - (3.6 total 2008's Sacs) = (21.04 total 2009 Sacs made in Dec 2008)
so add that 21.04 + (71.26 total 2009 Sacs) = 92.3 (total 2009 business strike Sacs)
i think this is right and hope this helps your number crunching ??? Snowman>>
Interresting. That would make the Native Amrican coins meet the mintage requirements. I would have thought the mint would have included them in their 2009 numbers.
<< <i>i think that some of the problems is that in 2008 the Mint only made 3.6 million Business strike Sac's with the year 2008 on the coins
and in December 2008, the mint started to make 2009 coins in December of 2008 but group'd that mintage with the total of 2008's
so subtract 24.64 (2008 total) - (3.6 total 2008's Sacs) = (21.04 total 2009 Sacs made in Dec 2008)
so add that 21.04 + (71.26 total 2009 Sacs) = 92.3 (total 2009 business strike Sacs)
i think this is right and hope this helps your number crunching ??? Snowman
US mint production figures >>
I think you are correct.
TD
When did the bulk/direct sales for the 2009 Native American dollars begin? The 2010 sales began so early that some of them were probably struck in c/y 2009, so it would make sense for some of the 2009's to have been struck in c/y 2008.
The Mint's bookkeeping practices are funny. In most years the Mint began pre-selling the American Eagles for the following year in December of the preceding year. The sales get reported for December, even though the coins do not ship until January.
TD
P.S.: A thought....if coins are struck but not released, are they counted as "in circulation?" The Mint recently began selling bags of 2001 dollars in the direct sales program. Where have these coins been, how many of them are there and have they been counted as "in circulation?"
Very interesting point. The Circulation Statement lists "Amounts outstanding" which consists of amounts held by "The Treasury", "FRBs" and "amounts in circulation". In circulation would include commercial bank vaults. I know in years gone by, paper money printed, but not issued was not counted as outstanding. The Ike dollars showed up in the circulation statements as outstanding the very month they were minted. Perhaps, today, it may be possible that there exists a pile of unissued coin. If true, which would be a departure from the past, that would explain the Treasury supply of dollars not increasing much in 2009.
Oops the answer to that is in the next paragraph.)
Flash! I just checked an earlier copy of the circulation statement. On June 30, 2006 the amount of dollar coins outstanding is 3,505,529,008. That is the same number as shown for Dec 31, 2008. So the entire mintage of 1,405,350,000 2007 and 2008 Presidential dollars is missing. A lot of these were released through the banks. The Treasury's accounting is certainly off here.
Coins sold to collectors at a premium are not considered part of the money supply.
Back in 1973, uncirculated sets were considered part of the money supply.
So they just screwed up and never updated the 2007 and 2008 figures, and finally fixed it in 2009.
Excellent detective work. No scandal, just sloppy reporting.
TD
<< <i>There is shown NO $100 United Staes Notes as outstanding. Footnote 6 says "Represents prior month adjustment." >>
It pretty much pointed towards some kind of error on their part.
TD
<< There is shown NO $100 United Staes Notes as outstanding. Footnote 6 says "Represents prior month adjustment." >>
It pretty much pointed towards some kind of error on their part.>>
They had a similiar problem with $50 (large size) years ago. Under the terms of the 1961 Old Series Currency Adjustment Act, 24 million dollars large size United Staes Notes were taken off the rolls in Nov 1964. $50 notes in this group dropped from $199,925 to $1,800.
The rest were assumed to be "destroyed or irretreivably lost". "Irretreivably lost" includes notes held in collections! August 1969 showed $525 outstanding. September 1969 showed $25 outstanding. Evidently redemptions exceeded their expectations. Eventually for many years, they showed nothing outstanding. Today they show $500. In some respects it is a fairy tale world.
Dollar coins being overminted in the billions. no demand. I think the $1 bill is going away, but there is some sort of back door collusion between the paper makers up in New York State and the treasury. Plus -- think of the problems at the cash register. I mean -- $20 in coins takes up room! so when the big time inflation hits, these will be the new quarters. Hoarders are in the dark thinking these are collectible. However, the mint is not going to melt them or reuse them because of the wierd sandwich of metals. It costs then 5 cents to make one (or there abouts). So they can sit on it for a long time, and when they phase out the $1 bill (which have to be replaced every third year or so), they actually save money in the long run. Its brillant! but unless vending machines, laundry machines etc are retooled, people wont accept them.
Funny thing is I remember that as a paperboy in the early 70's I was getting lots of Franklin's in change. I never see a Kennedy in change, and never ever have I recieved a $1 president. The last Sacagawea or SBA I got was from the post office stamp machine which went away.
So why all the friggin' $1 coins?
Great thread keep it going!
each year less and less will be printed. and of course each year more dollar coins are made
according to the federal reserve - there are 9.6 billion one dollar bills in circulation
compared to 3 billion dollar coins made(quick guess), so if that amount is to be the same
the mint has a long ways to go.. Snowman
Federal Reserve Link
TD
Dollar coins outstanding 5,446,949,008 although I think the evidence points to about 150 million minted but not officially added to the money supply yet.
Dollar coins in circulation $4,358,334,314 . Remember 2009 was the year that they added about 1 1/2 billion Presidential dollars that had been overlooked(!?) before.
One dollar bills in circulation 9,573,049,736. Federal Reserve notes were 9,430,501,798 of that total.
<< <i>IMHO:
Dollar coins being overminted in the billions. no demand. I think the $1 bill is going away, but there is some sort of back door collusion between the paper makers up in New York State and the treasury. Plus -- think of the problems at the cash register. I mean -- $20 in coins takes up room! so when the big time inflation hits, these will be the new quarters. Hoarders are in the dark thinking these are collectible. However, the mint is not going to melt them or reuse them because of the wierd sandwich of metals. It costs then 5 cents to make one (or there abouts). So they can sit on it for a long time, and when they phase out the $1 bill (which have to be replaced every third year or so), they actually save money in the long run. Its brillant! but unless vending machines, laundry machines etc are retooled, people wont accept them.
Funny thing is I remember that as a paperboy in the early 70's I was getting lots of Franklin's in change. I never see a Kennedy in change, and never ever have I recieved a $1 president. The last Sacagawea or SBA I got was from the post office stamp machine which went away.
So why all the friggin' $1 coins?
Great thread keep it going! >>
1. A roll of dollars coins fits just fine in a register. I have paid for things in large amounts of dollars coins and I can see that it is not a problem.
2. I think the dollar coin costs quite a bit more than five cents to make. I think it's closer to 30 cents. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
3. Just about every vending machine I come into contact with already accepts dollar coins.
<< <i>2. I think the dollar coin costs quite a bit more than five cents to make. I think it's closer to 30 cents. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. >>
The golden dollar has about 6 cents of metal in it, which is like a cent more than the quarter. I don't think it takes another 25 cents in production costs to mint them, tho.
The similiar looking Canadian golden dollar, the loonie, costs about 30 cents to make due mostly to its higher nickel content. The $2 coin there costs about as much. Their composition will change next year.
I did not realize how great a quantity of dollars were sold at premium prices to collectors. This might explain the descrepancy I found in the numbers minted versus outstanding. I am now going to say I think (I realy don't know) that the coins when struck are counted as outstanding and in the Treasury balance. I suspect the 2001 dollars when sold were subtracted from the outstanding column as well as Treasury holdings column.