A tale of the GB 1901 1/2d ACG MS63 Red

ajaan

I bought a GB 1901 1/2d ACG MS63 Red coin a while back at a local shop. I sent it to PCGS for cross grading a few months ago. It DNC. I decided to crack it out and send it in again, I know, a lot of money for such a cheap. I received grades today. This is what I saw:

3 1 16605754 201774 1901 1/2D Gr.Britain MS64RD

Never, never, send an ACG coin in for cross grading.

coinkat

Congrats-

canadacolornut

Typical of my experience.

ICG is a laydown 1 point down grade with PCGS. Frankly so are NGC and ICCS. I've fared
a little better with ANACS.

Evaluate the quality of the coin. If you think it's solid for the grade then by all means
take it out of the holder and get a raw grade. If it's too expensive to risk a down grade
then just sell the mother as it is :+)

Stork

That is interesting...I vaguely remember someone trying to put together a larger sample of coins (it may have been a litesider thing) and keeping a database to see if there was anything to it when the coins were sent en-slabbe vs. cracked. I wonder if anyone did that? I'm sure there are some nice coins out there in some 'off' slabs. Cool!

Cathy

wybrit

That is stunning that you got an upgrade.

I believe more than ever that slab bias is a huge factor, except for ANACS pieces (at least for me).

In the past 12 months,
1846 shilling, ANACS 63 ==> PCGS 63
1882 shilling, ANACS 63 ==> PCGS 64
1847 halfpenny, ANACS 62RB ==> PCGS 63RB
That's 3/3.

The last one was a bit of a cheat - I cracked it out of a newer ANACS holder so I could send it in with a bunch of raw pieces and not pay another handling fee.



NGC, on the other hand...

WWW

You should go out and buy a lottery ticket. You are on a lucky streak!
BTW: ACG slabs and hammers go very well together.

wybrit

BTW, at the January 2010 Heritage auction, a 1901 halfpenny in 64RD hammered at $299 including BP, so maybe all that money was worth it.

ajaan

Thanks wybrit. Here's the rest of the story on the coin. I gave the coin to lordmarcovan, when it was still in the ACG holder, for his daughter's set. He wanted me to send it in to PCGS to be graded with Rob paying the fees. So, the coin isn't mine.

wybrit

Here's the rest of the story on the coin.

Thanks, Paul Harvey.

SaorAlba

<< <i>You should go out and buy a lottery ticket. You are on a lucky streak!
BTW: ACG slabs and hammers go very well together. >>



From what I have seen of ACG slabs, you don't even need a hammer or even your hands sometimes - they come apart all by themselves.

And yes, I agree sending something in for grading in an ACG slab is just asking for a prejudicial declination.

zeebob

Alright darn it. Ajaan, you've convinced me. I sent in a slew of NGC coins to PCGS for cross over and the all (except 2) came back in the NGC holders with a comment that they would only cross if the minimum grades I allowed were one point below NGC's assigned grade. I've sold most off at a loss, but I have a least one nice 1838 large cent that I just love. I'm going to send it to PCGS as a raw coin. In for a penny in for a pound.

SYRACUSIAN

<< <i>That is stunning that you got an upgrade.

I believe more than ever that slab bias is a huge factor, except for ANACS pieces (at least for me).

In the past 12 months,
1846 shilling, ANACS 63 ==> PCGS 63
1882 shilling, ANACS 63 ==> PCGS 64
1847 halfpenny, ANACS 62RB ==> PCGS 63RB
That's 3/3.

The last one was a bit of a cheat - I cracked it out of a newer ANACS holder so I could send it in with a bunch of raw pieces and not pay another handling fee.



NGC, on the other hand... >>





I agree. Ajaan can testify, as he submitted them for me: practically all my (small) ex Anacs coins crossed or upgraded one or two points to PCGS. However, given Anacs' tight grading standards back in 2000, I tend to believe that cracking them out would have brought me better results. The one coin I can't seem to cross is a 30mm diameter 1882 Greek copper full red coin, a 10 lepta. PCGS won't give me that RD designation and I won't crack it out. We're stuck.



Don have you imaged it prior to sending it to Rob? I love red old head pennies.

SYRACUSIAN

PS: Coin is in an Anacs MS64RD holder, correct grade IMO. Now I know it's at the limit, and I even own myself more full red coins that are graded 65RB by PCGS, notably a super ex Colin Cooke 1862 farthing. But one has to consider that it's a large 30mm not a 16 or 18mm centime and it's the sight of older PCGS red coins such as this French 5c that gets to me:

canadacolornut

So how long have I been messing with this thing?

I still have some MS 65 Mercury dimes sealed in an early form of the Cointain inside a plastic bag with an ANACS label on it.

The earliest TPG, well grounded, ethical and usually very tight on grading standards.

Unfortunately the market passed them by; just as it's doing with ICCS grading.

ICCS, however, seems to believe that loosening the grading standards is the answer. And all that's doing is dropping
them into second and third tier grading house levels with all but Canadian collectors.

They badly need to improve their holders and tighten their grading standards back up to the level that made them the
the most credible for Canadian coins for many years......

SYRACUSIAN

I don't collect them, but my understanding from so many posts here, is that ICCS gives the RD designation way easier than US grading services. The numerical grade is another story.

ajaan

ICCS will give RED to coins that may only be 90% red. They are very loose with the RED compared to the US TPG.

Dimitri, I didn't take an image of the 1902 1/2d before sending it in.

marcmoish

wow - you did good Don!

Unsure what possesed you to even attempt to send in an ACG slab.
Frankly I can't imagine anything crossing - even if it made sense... just that ACG slab would open up issues...true with either service.(NGC or PCGS)

Glad you now know



Marc

ajaan

Marc, I sent it in ACG slabbed because I know somewhat how to grade these coins and I knew it was at least MS63. I thought PCGS might RB the coin, I never thought DNC at any grade.

StubbyMcNumbthumbs

Slab bias by PCGS is total BS. We always hear "buy the coin, not the plastic". Shouldn't that same philosophy apply to graders - "Grade the coin, not the plastic"?

I am constantly amazed at how many people swear by their "product" (i.e. tough standards & consistent grading, etc), when I hear stories like this on a weekly, almost daily basis.

Sorry to be a grumble-bum, but I just don't get why so many find this acceptable.

7Jaguars

I think there is more agreement than you know or will hear. Many are a bit reluctant to state such views in light of the pronouncements from on high about excommunication of posters, which seems to have happened with relatively little provocation.
IMO, TPG grading is simply part of the business and knocking down the competition a bit in big or small ways might be part of that whether judged right or wrong.

marcmoish

I admit I am not aware of what's going on relative to knocking another grading company...and seldom visit the lightside since a few years ago......anyone know if me needs to "edit" my response?