1860-C 2 1/2 gold- Coin Here, lots of pictures of the stars and rims, let me know if you want a pic

TexasNationals

Thoughts??

RYK

Looks cleaned; for grading, it depends how it looks in hand. I am leaning toward no-grade and 45-50 details.

segoja

XF Cleaned. Obverse looks pitted

TexasNationals

fair enough, pictures suck, it does have some decent ticks. Any idea what a fair price to pay would be.

MikeInFL

Is it real?

TexasNationals

Oh yeah it is real, but the gold experts please chime in!


Edited I hope to h**l it's real.

tightbudget

I think it's genuine. In addition, it also appears to be an ex-jewelry piece.

robkool

AU55 details... How are the rims, or edges of this piece ???

TexasNationals

Anyone else

coinguy1

It looks like a genuine, (approximately) AU53 details, harshly cleaned example to me.

Longacre

Cleaned, net 45 details. No Plus, no sticker.

CarsonCityGold

I'm in the crowd with XF details/cleaned and possible ex jewelry.
Looks like something going on with the rim at 12 o'clock obverse / 6 o'clock reverse.

commoncents05

<< <i>I'm in the crowd with XF details/cleaned and possible ex jewelry.
Looks like something going on with the rim at 12 o'clock obverse / 6 o'clock reverse. >>



My thoughts as well. Look at the edge for possible reeding issues that would indicate the removal of solder. If it's just cleaned, it doesn't hurt the value as much, an ex-jewelry piece greatly hurts the value.

-Paul

2manycoins2fewfunds

'Liberty' details seem kinda squishy and dentiles around 3 o'clock seem odd.

Everyone sure it is real??

Ahrensdad

<< <i>Is it real? >>



That's my question...

Edited for reason: On the obv to the left of liberty between the stars are two unusual impressions. Could be a clash, could be nothing. I'm not sure from the quality of the pic. That is what initially led to my comment.

ambro51

Without question it is genuine. A good thing to have, are a few books that give you details on specific coins. If you are collecting Charlotte Gold, you NEED to have Doug Winters "Gold Coins of the Charlotte Mint".

Referring to page 111, the surfaces of the 1860 C quarter eagle are described "Many 1860-C quarter eagles show mint made roughness ...Specific patches of roughness are visible from below the beak of the eagle to the top of the right wing. above and behind the eagles head and below the right wing. There is also a mint made patch of roughness beneath the crook of the eagles left wing."


If you study the OP image of the coin, you will notice slightly darker areas exactly in these locations. If the picture would be better....the image would no doubt show these are the roughness that Mr. Winter points out.

This issue has an obverse which is always better struck than the reverse, and this should be taken into account when grading the 60-C

...also, he ads, " There are very few 1860-C quarter eagles remaining that have not been dipped or cleaned."

As for rarity, mintage 7,469.....total known today, 155-205........VF 40-60, XF 74-93, AU 35-45, UNC 6-7

................cleaned? Well, if the TPG's were as harsh on early southern gold as they legally could be, there'd be darn few coins in slabs. Id rotate that thing under a light, and see if you have strong directional hairlines. especially if they are more pronounced on one side than the other. If not, and the reeding is not nicked...you *may* grade. If youre slabbing this, Id say to do it ATS since within the registry there you are allowed half the point value on a details graded coin. A pcgs gennie is useless in that registry, and only gives you a PO01 value in the pcgs registry. So what Im saying is that you will get more value to some collectors who may want this for registry in the NGC slab.

Nice coin, BTW, Its AU 50-53 (details?) based on the obverse! This coin got through the civil war in pretty good shape, considering how much value $2.50 in gold represented in the Confederate States of America!~

determined

PerryHall

<< <i>I think it's genuine. In addition, it also appears to be an ex-jewelry piece. >>

PerryHall

<< <i>How are the rims, or edges of this piece ??? >>



Any traces of solder or tooling from the removal of solder on the edges?

ambro51

I dont think this was a piece used often in jewelry, a quick look through heritage archives, 75 coins sold, looks like only 4 or 5 were ex jewelry, and these were pretty bad. Most coins were pcgs and ngc certified.

telephoto1

AU, cleaned

CharlotteDude

Cleaned, and perhaps polished. Looks like it's ex-jewelry... could be damage at 12 o'clock (rim area between stars 6 & 7) on the obverse where a mount was removed. It looks genuine... strike is average, date logo and mintmark placement looks good. This isn't a widely counterfeited date, so my vote is it's genuine. AU-50 details, but bumped to VF-20 for the cleaning and potential damage.

'dude

pursuitofliberty

I'm in the crowd with XF details/cleaned and possible ex jewelry.
Looks like something going on with the rim at 12 o'clock obverse / 6 o'clock reverse.


ditto

looks pretty harsh (cleaning wise) and it looks like an amatuer atempt to fix the rim (obverse denticals)

TexasNationals

I will get better pics this week

TexasNationals

Best I could do RYK!

RYK

<< <i>I will get better pics this week >>


I think I will wait for the better pictures.

TexasNationals

18 close ups are coming stay tuned

TexasNationals

Okay I started at 12:00 and took 60x shots of the rims and stars. Under the stereoscope I see no colber reminants inbetwen the reeding. Yes I know there is a rim bump at 8 or 9 o'clock

Yes it is cleaned, not sure about the jewelry piece I really don't see it, but again it is not my series and I don't mess with alot of ex-jewelery pieces. Thoughts? Grades?? Values?































Okay this one was take at 200x, around 1:00 where i thought it was filing or maybe adjustment marks, but the lines are raised like metal flow???


The mint mark


Well??

TexasNationals

Anyone? Is this what you not wanted to see?

MikeInFL

I'm no gold expert, much less a counterfeit gold expert, but I'm still left questioning the authenticity of this coin. The surfaces, particularly the obverse, looks all wrong. Perhaps just a polishing/burnishing of the surfaces that's throwing me off. Respectfully...Mike

p.s. it is worth noting that people with far more experience/knowledge on this subject think the coin's real, so take the above FWIW.

TexasNationals

Thanks Mike!

ambro51

All the details, including the partly obscured mint mark match up with the plate coin in Winters book.

I like it, as I said before.

send it to NGC, get it in plastic, and all questions will cease, as if a faucet is turned off.

TexasNationals

Ambro, I am just curious now as to whether the the team thinks it is ex-jewelery? I don't see it but if it is I would like to know why so I can watch out in the future. No harm.

Longacre

I still cannot tell from the new pictures. As such, unfortunately, I still need to stand by my decision of no Plus and no sticker.

ambro51

They are asking you that question because they are programmed to ask it. If they see no indication whatever on your pictures suspicions are further raised. If surface aspects exactly match a plate coin, then the same group of experts suspect an even more clever counterfeit. Like I said .... You need to submit this I'd suggest ngc and once it is wrapped in plastic your coin will then get full respect and all questions will cease. Jewelry altered have many ways of being damaged but usually there will be edge dings that are seen on both sides of the coin, bends, cupping ( the coin will have a high center on one side) plugging, which is impossible to hide, solder on the rim (look for black metal in the reeding) or a flat where it has been removed. I find you can get a good idea of how a date/mm was used in the jewelry trade be searching low grade specimens on heritage archives. This really works only on issues of low survivor rarity. Your coin for instance only appeared ex jewelry five times out of 75 overall sales. So it was not an issue that thus should be a major concern. Even though mr winter notes most 60Cs were cleaned or brightened only a few sakes were of cleaned coins. Most were ngc or pcgs slabbed which shows these coins are now market acceptable due to small survivor numbers and value

CharlotteDude

The close up pics don't really do anything for me. I suspect the coin has been in jewelry because of the obverse's look from the OP photo. The surfaces exhibit a slightly pitted look (esp in the upper left quadrant area in the fields, Liberty's face/around her eye, and the bottom truncation of her neck), much like those seen on coins which spent a healthy number of years in jewelry, and were worn frequently. I suspect the rest of the obverse exhibits some degree of this pitting, but isn't captured well by the lighting. Aside from that, it's difficult to tell if the obverse rim disturbance (between stars six & seven) is a rim bruise or where a mount had been and was subsequently removed/repaired. Without further examination, I would err on the side of a removed mount, due to my suspicions that it was worn as jewelry. The coin looks to have been polished, due to it's brightness, and the aforementioned time in jewelry. I do think the coin is authentic, tho.

regards,

'dude