Can you tell by this pic if 1877 Indian is genuine ???

Smittys

Sorry about the movement in rev pic.
Is it genuine ?
And What would grade it?

BillJones

I would not buy that coin from that picture. The focus is bad in a bad spot, at the bottom of the "N" in "ONE." A genuine business strike 1877 Indian cent is weak at the bottom of the "N," and I can't see that area clearly enough to say if it is genuine. Also if it's genuine, the expose is such that you can't be sure if the coin is orginal or cleaned and re-toned.

I'd stay away if the picture is all you have got. And there is one more thing. Key date Indian cents like this are usually raw for a reason, and that reason is not often to the buyer's benefit.

PTVETTER

there is a reason why that coin is NOT in ah pcgs holder..... FACT

It may be real but the blurry photo leaves one to guess

MY advice is stop looking for a bargin and pay for a real 1877 in a top TPG serviec holder

In this case you maybe sorry if you win the bid

CaptHenway

I cannot tell.
I would not buy it based upon that picture.
TD

doh

Real or not I wouldn't touch it based on that pic. Looks cleaned at least.

coinguy1

<< <i>there is a reason why that coin is NOT in ah pcgs holder..... FACT......

<< <i>FACT, it could be for any number of reasons. And they don't all necessarily indict the coin in question.

DennisH

Here are the same pictures, but with some serious shadow & highlight adjustment:

garrynot

One of the posters here has 9 of these where he works and I guarantee they are all genuine.

OchoReales

The shape and placement of the 7's looks good to me.

BillJones

If you are trying to sell 1877 Indian cents raw over the Internet, you had better learn to take clear photos with good lighting. For all we know this thing could be from China and the blurriness is there to hide something.

doh

<< <i>One of the posters here has 9 of these where he works and I guarantee they are all genuine. >>

airplanenut

I agree with the sentiments expressed already. I don't know about the authenticity, but I immediately thought something was wrong when I saw the coin, indicating to me that at the least the color is probably suspect.

tydye

Can't tell from those pics.
But I do NOT believe the notion that since it is raw there must me something the matter with it. I looked at a raw AU 1877 today it was part of a primarily unc set in an album. I think there are still lots of old timers out there with nice stuff stashed away who have never heard of nor care for 3rd party grading.
Now if you are a novice attending a coin show looking for a 1877 - then 3rd party grading is your friend because no one else will be.

TwoSides2aCoin

The pics create doubt, which limits the ability to grade, even if it's guessing.

jesbroken

Do all the 1877 Indians have the open top "D" in United, or just certain dies? The reason I ask is all three of the first coins that PCGS offers as examples in 3 different grades have this anomaly. I have never owned an 1877 so the identification of a genuine example requires bookwork on my part.
Jim

doh

Here's a known authentic example for comparison:

jesbroken

To answer my own question--I guess not. I checked the book by Rick Snow and he indicates that most counterfeits have a sharp edge whereas genuine coins have a beveled edge and if it is a modification of an 1879 coin there might be a small nub at the base of the 1. I enlarged this photo but cannot tell for sure. As previously mentioned the reverse is too blurry for any valid identification. Hopefully, I have not misspoken regarding Rick's book. Hope this helps.
Jim

Smittys

The coin is coming back in tomorrow or Friday, I'll be able to take better pics, I had to take the first ones in a hurry.
Does this one help any better only had the one of the reverse.

kurtdog

Guys, I believe these are his pics. He comes right out of the chute apologized for the "movement" in the reverse pic. All he wants to know is whether it's genuine, and, if so, what it should grade. Isn't that right, Smittys?

Anyway, on DennisH's edited pics, I'll give this a MS-condition grade, all the way, and agree that one can't go more exacting than that, based on these pics. I think the date looks genuine, too, for what that's worth.

BTW, Smittys, where did you get this? Don't tell me you found it in a roll.

Hussulo

I don't think it is a good idea trying to guess authenticity off pictures alone, for a bit of fun I'll give it a shot.

I thought an indicator for a genuine one was that the bottom of the N in ONE is week as is in Doh's picture. Even though the pictures are blurry the OP's one doesn't look week.

kurtdog

<< <i>I don't think it is a good idea trying to guess authenticity off pictures alone, for a bit of fun I'll give it a shot.

I thought an indicator for a genuine one was that the bottom of the N in ONE is week as is in Doh's picture. Even though the pictures are blurry the OP's one doesn't look week. >>


That reverse might be due to some wear. Even if it isn't, that top N could be stronger. Here's a higher grade (AU58) on DGS, right now, that illustrates that (...compare to OP's top N in the lighter, edited pic).

EagleEye

The coin looks like the real thing, based on the obverse. It has the dot by the hair curl found on the S2. The reverse is difficult to see, but it looks like the shallow N. This coin won't grade due to color, so if you want a graded one, pass. If it is more than $3000, pass.

ajman

Rick, you are the man!

kurtdog

<< <i>This coin won't grade due to color >>


Rick, can you explain that a little further? It does look like it was possibly cleaned, at some point, I'll give it that.

originalisbest

Color problems meaning the coin is AT/cleaned/burnished what have you, but it would garner a "genuine" slab, anyway.

kurtdog

<< <i>Color problems meaning the coin is AT/cleaned/burnished what have you, but it would garner a "genuine" slab, anyway. >>


One would think one would be more articulate than that when giving a coin that kiss of death. I'm just sayin...

EagleEye

Hardly a kiss of death. It's worth something. PCGS has set a bar for pseudo-originality and everyone is jumping over that bar. Ones that don't make it are still good coins to buy at the right price. This coin has a great strike. That's a difficult thing to find with 1877's.

kurtdog

OK, good answer, I appreciate it, Rick. That's their "bar." I can at least now understand what you were referring to when you said that the coin won't grade. These "bars," you know, are funny things. In spite of that, I certainly feel that a major TPG like PCGS should be entitled to have theirs, what the hell?