I feel so scammed

mumu

This post has probably been made 1000 times but...Man, pulling up my old cards made me feel so scammed. My entire child hood one big SCAM. Every penny i earned i went and bought the latest new card idea buying into "Pro Set new challenger to Topps, better stock paper" run out and buy the whole set. "OMG Holograms, the future is here!" Run out and buy boxes hoping to pull 1 or 2. "OMG WTF is a refaractor?!?!?! Gotta get em". "OMG Super Matrix First day Issue Die Refractor and they are worth $2000 if you get one!!!!" 5 more boxes at 200$ a pop. "OMG Game worn Jersey on the card, coolest idea ever!!" Buy 5 boxes at 500 each$ and get ZERO. Price guide prices during sale are always so inflated, only to find out that 80$ card you pulled while spending 500$ to get it while trying to get the $2000 card that the dealer always somehow magically pulled out of the 2 boxes he opened is now worth $10 but only if you get it graded for 20$ and it gets a perfect gem mint 10 rating.

hotmush

Yup. Got back into collecting in 2006. Thought I'd build a 2007 Topps baseball set just to enjoy the cards and putting the set together. Must have sunk $300 in boxes. Didn't even get a full basic set out of it. Cost of a factory set on Ebay now? About $10 bucks. Total rip.

melvin289

I spent almost $200 putting together an 1990 set of Upper Deck from packs. I could have bought the factory set for $29 at Target. I doubt the set is worth anywhere near $29 now.

Edited to add: I also bought 4 wax boxes of 1990 Bowman. It was always said if you bought 4 wax boxes you would have a set with the exception of maybe 3 or 4 cards. After opening the 4 boxes I didn't have half the set. Ripped off.

Ron

mumu

My hope is to hold on to them and by combination of people not caring about them anymore and letting them rot, and the people burning them ut of sheer frustration as I have wanted to do, I may one day if i live 1000 years have something rare.

I remember when I started collecting Joe Montana rookie cards were 4$ in the priceguide in mint condition. As a 9er fan he was my favorite player at the time. What I would give to go back and have just spent all my money on the cards of my favorite players of the time instead of buying into the marketing BS that followed a few years later.

Another funny story came crept up in my mind as i was looking thru them. I remember my first day in a card shop. I took a Jim Evertt rookie card with me because it was 17$ in the price guide. I passed it tot he guy and said, I'll take the 17$ please. As if the price guide was my entitlement and the card shop guy was the redemmer. He said its not worth 17$ in this condition. I asked well what is it worth then. He said 3$ maybe? I said ok ill take the 3$. He tells me just because its worth 3$ doesnt mean I want it. I was shocked LOL. I thought to myself wtf kinda BS is this. Why is it worth 3$ if I cant even get the 3$ for it from a shop. I wish that scam feeling hit a little harder and longer back then it would have saved me further disapoint.

csmtampa

Still a fun hobby

MULLINS5

wait and see what graded cards are like in 20 years...

stevek

Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out.

melvin289

<< <i>Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out. >>



The good thing about stamps is you can buy them at face and use them at face. You can't lose money on them.

Ron

ekim2528

1990 Score baseball, a fortune.

mumu

<< <i>Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out. >>




The stamp market though is pure supply and demand. Theres no essence of marketing scamming fueling it the way it was with cards. Its kinda sad/funny tho that it would take a more expensive stamp to mail a stamp.

I remember paying as high as 20$ for a pack of football cards with 4 cards in it. Would have been better off playing the lotto with that money. Now those 5$cards are even worth a 1c stamp. As pretty as the cards may be what can you do with a 20$ pack of cards that may have been Karim Abdul Jabar(Dolphins), Napoleon Kaufman, Jim Druckenmiller, Ryan Leaf. I'd take a 1 cent stamp for any of that now and i probably couldnt get it lol.

mumu

<< <i>1990 Score baseball, a fortune. >>



Time to average down:

wax box

Full set went unsold on ebay for $9.50. I say we class action lawsuit agasint all the card companies for hyping faux investment potential.

ekim2528

My god the money I spent.

ekim2528

Maybe Martin Brodeur will get me out of the 100 factory sets of 1990 Score hockey.

toc1000

I blame the price guides (as have many others.) The price guides of the 1980s simply listed the retail ask price.

In practice, most baseball cards of the 1980s were unsaleable (even if the price guide listed a second-tier card at $1.50, they were as a practical matter worth $0.00.

toc1000

A couple of listings:

For instance, Beckett might list a 1982 Topps Pete Rose at $2.00, when in fact nobody in the entire neighborhood thought it worth even $0.01.

Or a 1990 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. valued by Beckett at $4.00 - when in practice nobody wanted anything but the 1989 UD.

handyman

I tried to talk and people that dont collect coins said no. so yeah.. man. umm sooo. danggg. but tt shooottt .ummm, hmmm, yeah, I feel you I think. VINTAGE! Hmm not sure but yeah,,,, maybe,,oh yeah, its most likely yes but hmmm

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out. >>




The stamp market though is pure supply and demand. Theres no essence of marketing scamming fueling it the way it was with cards. Its kinda sad/funny tho that it would take a more expensive stamp to mail a stamp.

I remember paying as high as 20$ for a pack of football cards with 4 cards in it. Would have been better off playing the lotto with that money. Now those 5$cards are even worth a 1c stamp. As pretty as the cards may be what can you do with a 20$ pack of cards that may have been Karim Abdul Jabar(Dolphins), Napoleon Kaufman, Jim Druckenmiller, Ryan Leaf. I'd take a 1 cent stamp for any of that now and i probably couldnt get it lol. >>



You're right, and I agree with ya - I was just pointing out another collectible in which just like the cards, "everyone" at the time thought sometime in the future these items would possibly/probably be worth a lot of money, and to hopefully avoid similar investment pitfalls in the future.

The only thing I disagree with ya on is the word "scam"...I don't remember any card company stating buy these cards and you'll be able to pay for your child's college education or something deceptive like that - although it wouldn't surprise me if some weasel card dealers would have stated that. I think it was the basic "herd mentality" of people wanting to jump on the card bandwagon for the perceived opportunity of maybe making a small fortune in the future. So in my viewpoint, i see it as more as a foolish investment than a scam, and history is littered with foolish investments that miserably failed....and unfortunately, there will be many more to come, not only in cards, but many other things as well.

72skywalker

Yeah, that 80's and 90's stuff is worthless only if you think of it that way. I lok back and remember when I collected it, who I collected it with and some of the "adventures" we had trying to finish the sets or who we traded to get the great rare cards in the set. If you look at how much fun you had collecting you won't feel as "scammed."

Now I only collect Yankee cards. (Base Topps and Upper Deck) The older ones are worth money and will most likely keep their value if not go up and the new ones cost me pennies a piece. I will never sell them so I don't worry about their upcoming value. i will let my kids worry about that one.

WinPitcher

The cheese and whine table is over there ----------------------------->



Steve

mike22y2k

Foget price guides. Ebay will tell you what something is really worth. Ebay in the next 20 years will take the word rare and low pop from the hobby. Collect what you like.

Boopotts

<< <i>Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out. >>



If I had to guess:

1) Early MMA cards.
2) Early Harry Potter collectibles.

There are a few modern sports cards that I think will be iconic enough to hold their value: Things like The Cup Crosby RC, Exquisite Lebron RC, '01 Bowman Chrome Pujols (assuming these don't get counterfeited, which apparently is indeed a concern), but by and large I think sports cards are DOA. And that goes for all the high grade post-war vintage as well.

TheTalkingWalnut

I hear ya, loud and clear. For me it's not only baseball cards but the whole lifestyle. My buddies and I were the Mitches from Dazed and Confused and we all couldn't wait until we got old enough to grow our hair down to our asses, get our licenses, buy an old Ruster and protest against Nixon, whatever that meant. When we did turn 18, it was 1986, and that Hot Tub movie is a perfect example of just how lame it was to be 18 in 1986.

I will say, however, that at this point one thing I'm NOT sad about was buying a half dozen wax cases of 1977 Topps with my life savings and carrying those cards in my pockets, to Little League games, wrapping them with big fat rubber bands, trading them, pitching them against the tough Italian kids at the Boys Club, and playing army games with them with my sister in the backyard shed. Sure, if I'd immediately sleeved and bindered the Ryans, Bretts, etc, they'd be worth a couple of thousand now. But I had a lot of fun fighting them and pitching them and completing the set honestly, ahead of Jeff but behind John (who probably cheated anyhow).

fiveniner

Blowing your money is what makes fun.I purchased in the last couple years 4 boxes of 84 Donruss just to build the perfect raw set then ended up having to buy 5 cards.Also my set is not quite perfect.

indiana9495

My wife told me for the past few years now since I got back into collecting in 2006 to stick to vintage cards as their value is already known and will hold steady. Other than putting together the 34 Goudey set, I bought all new. With the money I spent on the new stuff which isn't worth 10% of what I paid, I could have had a 52 Mantle in PSA 4.

Aric

The Steve-thinks-its-his-job-to-call-people-out table is over there
<---------------------------------------------------------------------

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

As a kid, I also bought into the Beckett hype in the 80's. "2nd year cards are a GREAT investment" etc. Oh well. Thats what I, me, myself get for not thinking on my own. Scammed? No.

It's a hobby. Rock collecting is free.

fiveniner

<< <i>My wife told me for the past few years now since I got back into collecting in 2006 to stick to vintage cards as their value is already known and will hold steady. Other than putting together the 34 Goudey set, I bought all new. With the money I spent on the new stuff which isn't worth 10% of what I paid, I could have had a 52 Mantle in PSA 4. >>




Sure could of.I rarely buy post 60 stuff however that 84 donruss always impressed me.

stevek

Ya never know what the future might bring. Of course if Iran ignites one nuclear weapon in the atmosphere far above the United States, resulting in an Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP), and it destroys the electrical grid for years resulting in no electricity, and also destroys all computer chips resulting in being unable to operate most automobiles and mechanical devices, then that 52 Mantle might not be worth a book of matches or a can of creamed corn.

Reljac

It's also been said a million times, buy what you like and what you personally want. Most collectibles are a crap shoot because they are pretty illiquid asset.

I take the same approach to card collecting that I take to Vegas.

Rules:
1) Don't spend more than you can afford to lose.
2) Expect to lose

I think these rules that I've used since the 80's hold even more true today in the chase card market.

Garabaldi

The late 80's and early 90's made a lot of collector's revaluate how they collect. I always bought the Beckett mag and always used it as a guide. I finally smartened up and realized that the older cards hardly ever moved up and basically the moved down. Also, the newer cards shot up and then almost always came down after a few years. There was ALOT of money wasted for awhile.

Boopotts

<< <i> Most collectibles are a crap shoot because they are pretty illiquid asset.

. >>



?

Reljac

<< <i>

<< <i> Most collectibles are a crap shoot because they are pretty illiquid asset.

. >>



? >>



Unless you can sit on them and wait for the right buyer to come along, you will often take less than they are 'worth' or can be sold for.

parkerj

I was 18 in 1986 and i agree wholeheartedly with talkingwalnut....my 1978 cards are all battered and rough but that was done out of love. I refuse to upgrade my beat up 78 set because they are the actual cards i carried around to friends houses for trading fests. That was before the price guides.... ebay history is the only price guide anyone needs - the rest is fodder.

gecko109

<< <i>Imagine how many long time postage stamp collectors must feel - mint stamps, MINT, from the 40's 50's 60's and up. many of them can be easily bought at slightly above or around face value on ebay. The way it goes, is if too many people feel it's a good investment, chances are it's not...but what do ya look at today that will be worth good money 20 or so years from now? It will be something, but very difficult to figure it out. >>




Gold and silver...start buying now.

ElToroLoco

I remember when 1996 Leaf Signature at $20 per retail pack was a sound investment. I look back and Apple stock under $20 would have been better.

italianstallionyankees

Scammed isn't the right word... The card companies didn't force you to buy the products , beckett printed inflated prices !
When I walk into a retail store and see new china made crap priced at crazy amounts, I simply walk out of the store and buy else where, whether it be a yard sale or a thrift store for the cheap
As for the Gecko statement "gold and silver are sound investments" True!
* Card collecting is simply collecting! When you buy that $300 box of cards... good chance you maybe might have less than $50 or so ....



Ryan

Reljac

<< <i>
Gold and silver...start buying now. >>



I disagree completely.... Gold price has quadrupled in the last decade. With the majority of the movement in the last 3 years. If you are jumping on the gold bandwagon you are either betting the economy will have hyper inflation or will collapse. During a similar economic recession time in the late 70's and early 80's the price of gold did the same thing it is doing right now. After the economy started going the price of gold dropped from $700 an oz to $300 an oz. The same will happen whenever the economy gets vibrant again. Only this time (due to the cash for gold crap and all the media pushing gold, instead of a 60% drop in value you are more likely going to see a 65-70% drop in value. Silver is the same way and the graph of silver prices show the same thing as gold. However, silver has not taken off quite as much as gold this go round, in the late 70s early 80s Silver outpaced gold.


Just like all the smart money people telling us houses are an investment that never lose money 10 years ago.... Gold will be the next one...

diamondman

<< <i>

<< <i>
Gold and silver...start buying now. >>



I disagree completely.... Gold price has quadrupled in the last decade. With the majority of the movement in the last 3 years. If you are jumping on the gold bandwagon you are either betting the economy will have hyper inflation or will collapse. During a similar economic recession time in the late 70's and early 80's the price of gold did the same thing it is doing right now. After the economy started going the price of gold dropped from $700 an oz to $300 an oz. The same will happen whenever the economy gets vibrant again. Only this time (due to the cash for gold crap and all the media pushing gold, instead of a 60% drop in value you are more likely going to see a 65-70% drop in value. Silver is the same way and the graph of silver prices show the same thing as gold. However, silver has not taken off quite as much as gold this go round, in the late 70s early 80s Silver outpaced gold.


Just like all the smart money people telling us houses are an investment that never lose money 10 years ago.... Gold will be the next one... >>



while all the things you state are true, except I don't see a 65-70% drop in gold possibly 30 to 50%, but one thing is for sure an ounce of gold will always be worth more than an ounce of silver and both will always be worth more than an ounce of cardboard .

Robb

<< <i>My wife told me for the past few years now since I got back into collecting in 2006 to stick to vintage cards as their value is already known and will hold steady. Other than putting together the 34 Goudey set, I bought all new. With the money I spent on the new stuff which isn't worth 10% of what I paid, I could have had a 52 Mantle in PSA 4. >>



Don't beat yourself up about it. It was failed logic from the beginning.

Reljac

<< <i>

while all the things you state are true, except I don't see a 65-70% drop in gold possibly 30 to 50%, but one thing is for sure an ounce of gold will always be worth more than an ounce of silver and both will always be worth more than an ounce of cardboard . >>



you know, you are right, I took another look at it and the price with inflation factored in would put it at around $705 per oz., so barring any new discoveries, it should drop by 30-40% when investors stop over-inflating it. With any new discoveries that increase the supply the price could drop further than that.

mike22y2k

It's hard for people to seperate the emotions from any investment. Whether it's cards, stocks, gold or houses. I've been very lucky with all these investments at one time or another. If you use only one investment strategy that applies to all of these it should be...Buy when everyone has sold and sell when everyone is buying. The best thing about investments is it's always changing from one to another and back again. Simple but true.

mumu

<< <i>The cheese and whine table is over there ----------------------------->



Steve >>



Actually its right here in this thread and you have apparently stumbled into it.


I dont think the scam was perpetrated by the printing companies per se. The dealers and the price guides were by far the main culprits, feeding off of each other and taking 200$ for a box of 30 cards from a 12 year old kid without batting an eyelash. Maybe a grown adult can properly distinguish between good and bad investments, but selling a kid on the idea that his 200$ investment might turn into a 2000$ lotto hit instantly is deceit by all measures, only to rush the next month to get the new price guide and see your 200$ was now worth 10$, if you could get the 10$. I remember hearing, thought now knowing what it meant neccesarily, that cards were a better investment than the stock market.

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>The cheese and whine table is over there ----------------------------->



Steve >>



Actually its right here in this thread and you have apparently stumbled into it.


I dont think the scam was perpetrated by the printing companies per se. The dealers and the price guides were by far the main culprits, feeding off of each other and taking 200$ for a box of 30 cards from a 12 year old kid without batting an eyelash. Maybe a grown adult can properly distinguish between good and bad investments, but selling a kid on the idea that his 200$ investment might turn into a 2000$ lotto hit instantly is deceit by all measures, only to rush the next month to get the new price guide and see your 200$ was now worth 10$, if you could get the 10$. I remember hearing, thought now knowing what it meant neccesarily, that cards were a better investment than the stock market. >>



No, it's not 'deceit by all measures' because the $200 scratch-off... err, wax box... could yield a $2000 hit, and in fact many boxes did just that. As for the rest of this, no dealer can look into his crystal ball and tell that 12 year old what his cards will be worth in 15 years.

As for the thousands of dewey-eyed 12 year olds that were curb stomped by the baseball card industry, my feeling is that everyone ended up winners. The baseball card industry made money, and the 12 year olds learned that searching for a 1000% yield with no risk on an investment asset is a fool's errand. God bless America.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Scam? No. Bad judgement, yes.

tunahead08

<< <i> feeding off of each other and taking 200$ for a box of 30 cards from a 12 year old kid without batting an eyelash >>



You had $200 to drop on a box of cards as a 12 year old? Spoiled much?

Reljac

<< <i>

<< <i> feeding off of each other and taking 200$ for a box of 30 cards from a 12 year old kid without batting an eyelash >>



You had $200 to drop on a box of cards as a 12 year old? Spoiled much? >>



no kidding... I remember when the $3-5 1990 leaf baseball packs were way out of my league.... and the shock when my dad bought a box of 1989 score football

diamondman

I remember 89 score FB selling for 50 cents a pack 15.00 a box and nobody wanted it, everyone was chasing Proset at 75 cents a pack and 20.00 a box. Remember 89 score had factory sets where 89 Proset didn't.

sometimes wabbits do the craziest things signed Elmer Fudd.

mumu

<< <i>

<< <i> feeding off of each other and taking 200$ for a box of 30 cards from a 12 year old kid without batting an eyelash >>



You had $200 to drop on a box of cards as a 12 year old? Spoiled much? >>



In my country we have birthdays and things of that nature.
I didnt just wake up every morning to scrambled eggs and a 200$ bill.
Was quite poor at times actually.

nam812

<< <i>....I didnt just wake up every morning to scrambled eggs and a 200$ bill....... >>



Who's on the 200? Alfred E. Neuman?

TheTalkingWalnut

So I'm one of the only ones old enough to remember buying a pack of cards with a quarter and getting change back? Oy vey!

CW

Welcome to the club.

I wouldn't say I feel scammed or cheated, but I did dump a large sum of money
into Mcgwire, Sosa, and Clemens, among others. Part of it was for the "investment",
but part of it was I liked those players at the time and I enjoy this hobby.

Going through life, most people are going to lose money because of their own
stupidity, one way or another (whether it's the stock market, baseball cards,
casinos, etc.). The trick is not to dwell on it, but learn from it and find better
things on which to spend your money.