Does the Secure Plus shield without a +

waterzooey

Hurt the auction price of a coin and by how much?

My hypothesis:
A lot of collectors collect plastic- Nut just the coin- So, when they buy a coin they are buying a grade- However, if you buy a coin that has been through the Secure Plus grading procedure you can ascertain immediately that in PCGS' eyes that coin is average for the grade; by the abscence of the plus. So does that abscence cause a drop in price?

any thoughts?

John

segoja

How does not in the top 10% mean average?

If the coin is better than 75% of the coins for the grade, it does not get the +, but could hardly be construed as average.

At the end of the day buy the coin....forget the plastic

fcloud

<< <i>How does not in the top 10% mean average?

If the coin is better than 75% of the coins for the grade, it does not get the +, but could hardly be construed as average.

At the end of the day buy the coin....forget the plastic >>



good advice

cape

Well said James !!!!

illini420

I think a nice looking coin in a regular PCGS blue holder will do better in an auction than a similar nice looking coin in a Secure Plus holder that didn't get the "+"

Catbert

<< <i>I think a nice looking coin in a regular PCGS blue holder will do better in an auction than a similar nice looking coin in a Secure Plus holder that didn't get the "+" >>



For now, I tend to agree!

Walkerguy21D

I tend to agree with Illini420's thinking as well.

RedTiger

>> A lot of collectors collect plastic- Not just the coin ...

I have to question the hypothesis. How many collectors have you met that do that? What percentage of folks on this forum would you say are in that category?

Personally, I haven't met any collectors in person, that are primarily interested in plastic. Not at any of the local club meetings, or at the other national level club meetings (NSDR, Flyin-Club, LSCC) that I have attended. Maybe I misjudged their interests, but I doubt it.

As for the forum, I'd guess it is less than 10% that are primarily interested in the grade on the label, and the vast majority of those few I would guess are in the novice category. If you did a poll, with four options:
1) mostly interested in the grade on the label
2) mostly interested in the coin inside the holder
3) 50/50 label and coin about equal
4) mostly interested in raw coins

On that kind of poll, I'd guess you get less than 10% voting for "grade on the label," so your hypothesis starts full of holes, even on this forum which skews more heavily towards certified coins than the average coin population.

CoinCrazyPA

I vote:

2) mostly interested in the coin inside the holder

okracer

"Hey, I got this cool MS65+ coin for $1000"

"But there was an MS66 on the table next to it for $1000"

"I know, but this one had a '+' on it !"

waterzooey

With all due respect- Buy the coin not the plastic is a farce- For the limited amount of collectors on here it may hold true for 50% if that.... People buy to have the grade- For example we just had a guy come on here saying I am going to buy a MS67 Morgan... Not I am going to buy the best Morgan I can find for 1K.... It sounds great to say buy the coin and not the plastic but that is not the reality-

Thus- Do you feel the lack of the + on Secure Shield slabs are going to have an adverse effect on auction prices? I do

Bubblehead

I agree with MOC when he says:

This may be correct but would be a mistake. Most people like myself send their nicer coins for the + evaluation. I will be looking closer

at the non + coins . Not likely someone will send in a low end coin for a shot at the +, however many nice coins may just miss the cut.

ecichlid

It will be worth less. PCGS made a mistake by nit also doing a minus to offset this. They'll come around when when the masses figure it out.

TwoSides2aCoin

It depends on the coin and how many people are bidding on it.

ricko

I normally agree with RedTiger, and I am sure that in conversation with other collectors, his evaluation is correct. However, I believe that in the overall collector population (in this current market), a much higher percentage of collectors are buying the plastic. The reliance on TPG's, and the financial aspect of collecting, has caused many to avoid the lengthy process of learning to grade and 'letting the experts do it for them'. Many will not admit this in general conversation, but careful observation at shows will reveal the preference for graded plastic (in the higher grades) rather than raw or lower grades. It goes with the 'fast food' mentality - 'I want it now and I want it good'. Cheers, RickO

Justacommeman

<< <i>It will be worth less. PCGS made a mistake by nit also doing a minus to offset this. They'll come around when when the masses figure it out. >>


Less then zero chance of them doing a minus holder. MJ

BigE

Yum, fast food, I want my Whopper with cheese please!!---------BigE

Unknown

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Placid

My feeling is if people start constantly paying 20% or more of the spread to the next grade for + pcgs graded coins then a non + should still be about on par with the pre-plus graded pcgs coins.

Julian

<< <i>"Hey, I got this cool MS65+ coin for $1000"

"But there was an MS66 on the table next to it for $1000"

"I know, but this one had a '+' on it !" >>



Buy the coin that YOU like better.

mozin

<< <i>I think a nice looking coin in a regular PCGS blue holder will do better in an auction than a similar nice looking coin in a Secure Plus holder that didn't get the "+" >>

mumu

I think the + sign was a mistake. It has too much psychology surrounding it. Especially since it is based on technical and not eye appeal like the * at NGC. A decimal point scale would have been better. 65.25 - 65.5 - 65.75 or something. Because if say you add the minus sign to the mix to balance the +, how many people will value a 65+ over a 66-, and they probably shouldnt. And then in the inconsistenet grading arena how many 66- coins will end up in 65+ holders?

Analyst

Illini240 <<I think a nice looking coin in a regular PCGS blue holder will do better in an auction than a similar nice looking coin in a Secure Plus holder that didn't get the "+">>

O’Connor <<One of the points made at the PCGS/SP presentation was that PCGS will be screening PCGS/SP submissions for coins that they want to buy back under the PCGS Guarantee. This even applies to PCGS/SP reholders ($20 for coins valued under $20K). While I don't expect any service to be perfect on catching problems, I argue that in most cases, a coin in a PCGS/SP base grade holder with no plus is actually preferable to a regular PCGS graded coin as the PCGS/SP has gone through yet another screen.>>

My tendency is to agree with O’Connor.

Also, I theorize that only a minority of the coins in SecureShield holders are coins that were submitted in older PCGS holders; most are coins that are submitted raw, usually by ‘crackout artists.’ So, there is a good chance that a coin, without a plus grade, in a SecureShield holder was graded in 2010, as opposed to the period from 1997 to 2006 when standards were looser and doctored coins were not filtered as well

Besides, as the years go by, the premium for SecureShield holders will increase, if the PCGS maintains its announced policies.

ChrisRx

A coin not submitted for a plus sign will fetch more money if the bidding subjects are speculating for a plus sign.

PawPaul

..a thread like this make's the whole " + " thingy somewhat muddled and unattractive

mbogoman

Plus, schmuss - I'm going to use the quarterly special (free Secure Plus) to get an 1870-CC Seated Lib dollar into PCGS plastic. It will probably go VF30 and I don't give a $&*% if it get s a + or not. In fact, I don't even think they are "plussing" anything at that low of a grade level, but with the $10K limit on value, the CC will finally qualify for the quarterly special.

Broadstruck