Poland- very sad and tragic as well as off-topic

coinkat

after logging on, I read real sad news- apparently the Polish President, his wife and other high ranking Polish officials were killed in a plane crash in Russia

I am stunned and extend my sympathy to the people of Poland and others effected by this tragedy...

HTubbs

I just saw that on the news. A tragic disaster!

Bjorn

Really surprising - sad to hear about the former president who survived WWII who died as well.

secondrepublic

an unbelievable tragedy

Kurt4

Very sad news indeed. My heart goes out to the people of Poland.

JimK

My prayers are with the Polish people during this unbelievably tragic time. What a disaster and to make matters even worse, they were all on the way to Katyn to pay their respects- which is the site of the massacre of many Polish Officers during the early stages of WWII.

Jim

Zohar

Real tragedy and hopefully Russia didn't have a hand in it...

farthing

Anytime you fly in a TU154 (or any other Tupolev plane) you are unfortunately risking your life.

wybrit

1jester

True, a 25-year old plane shouldn't be in service, especially to haul around VIPs, nor should so many have been in one plane.

Text

TokenTinker

What is sad beyond so many deaths and the loss of leadership for Poland is the inevitability of doubt and conspiracy theories that will roost on the incident for Poles - their mistrust of the Russians less sanguine, more extreme. That it happened prior to the Katyn memoriam can not but cause many Poles to draw comparisons with how the crème de la crème of Poland so suddenly perished.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>True, a 25-year old plane shouldn't be in service, especially to haul around VIPs, nor should so many have been in one plane.


>>




Sorry about the Polish leaders.


Oh, and nice Monte Carlo, too.

1jester

Thanks, Mac!

Link fixed.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>

<< <i>True, a 25-year old plane shouldn't be in service, especially to haul around VIPs, nor should so many have been in one plane.



>>




Sorry about the Polish leaders.


Oh, and nice Monte Carlo, too. >>




Link removed.

SaorAlba

<< <i>Anytime you fly in a TU154 (or any other Tupolev plane) you are unfortunately risking your life. >>



Whenever you fly into that part of Europe during the spring and fall months fog is a big factor in flying into and landing at airports. I know this personally from flying so much in Ukraine - many flights are cancelled or delayed because of fog. The pilot of the aircraft in question apparently ignored ATC at Smolensk airport when they instructed them not to land because VFR was not possible. Navigation aids for landing without VFR in many parts of the ex-USSR are not very good. It is not unusual therefore to have ATC advise pilots to not land, but proceed to an airport where VFR is available. TU-154 is actually an average aircraft with safety record comparable to western aircrafts, it is much better than aircrafts Ilyushin or Yakovlev. I have flown in YAK-42, and it is very unnerving experience, wind whistles through windows from decompression, tray tables are metal and do not stay attached to seat in front of you - and seat belts - if there are any you have to tie them together - no buckles.

1jester

Video of crash site with Polish-speaking narrator. The one filming seems surprised when he discovers it's a Polish plane. It looks like he just arrived on the scene, and is still panting from having run there. In the background, a few Russian firemen hose the site down, and later we hear many more sirens. The first object shown, a round orange disk, is described as being the black box from the aircraft. Notice, this is just minutes after the crash, and check out the visibility - much better than I'd thought.

laurentyvan

I haven't been able to think of anything to say that would rise to the level of this tragedy.

So, god bless them and hopefully the Polish people will be able to move forward in a reasonably
positive fashion from this blow to their body politic.

I enjoy the posters to this thread though, a lurker or two and many who were perhaps more active in the past than now.

secondrepublic

Here's my guess as to what happened with the accident:

There was fog and the Russian air traffic controllers told the Polish plane to divert to another airport. Diverting would mean several hours driving time and would have disrupted the planned Katyn event. The decisionmakers on the plane didn't have much confidence or trust in the Russians (for historical reasons). They probably interpreted the Russian air traffic controllers as intentionally exaggerating the weather situation for political reasons -- to mess up the Katyn remembrance event. (Kaczynski was a nationist politician and was unpopular with the Russians). The decisionmakers on the plane therefore disregarded what the Russians were saying, attempted to land, and the plane crashed.

mrearlygold

SaorAlba

It is funny where I live, we have lots of second generation Poles around here that are not quite familiar with Polish language anymore, and when we are out and talking they come up to us and ask us if we are speaking Polish because it sounds somewhat familiar.

I flew once to Warsaw, right after 9/11 tragedy in the USA, I think no other country had such outpouring of grief for USA than Poland did. In the embassy area of Warsaw the streets were literally covered with wax because of all candles near the USA embassy there.

1jester

<< <i>It is funny where I live, we have lots of second generation Poles around here that are not quite familiar with Polish language anymore, and when we are out and talking they come up to us and ask us if we are speaking Polish because it sounds somewhat familiar.

I flew once to Warsaw, right after 9/11 tragedy in the USA, I think no other country had such outpouring of grief for USA than Poland did. In the embassy area of Warsaw the streets were literally covered with wax because of all candles near the USA embassy there. >>



Did you see the American flag bandana I tied to the embassy fence, right above the candles? Or had everything been taken away by that time?