Old Copper #94 BB Can you tell why from Pictures?

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

I submitted this to PCGS and it came back BB'd code 94 altered surface. Is it the green I'm seeing or something else?
Anything I can do about it?

Thanks

Elcontador

From the image, there appears to be something added to the surface of the coin on the obverse. The area to the viewer's rt. of star 4 appears to be plugged. Also, in the lt. obverse field, between Miss Liberty's nose and between stars 3 and 4, something was added to the coin, coming in a line at an angle that would be 5:00 on an old clock. You can see traces of said line continuing between stars 2 and 3.

I'd return it. Otherwise, you're SOL.

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

I can see both now. The plug is pretty well concealed but just plain bad.
Back she goes in the morning. Thanks so much, now I can tell the dealer what's wrong with it.
You saved me some moolah!!

Thanks!

mumu

<< <i>I can see both now. The plug is pretty well concealed but just plain bad.
Back she goes in the morning. Thanks so much, now I can tell the dealer what's wrong with it.
You saved me some moolah!!

Thanks! >>



Anyone else really hate that they dont tell you what it gets BB'd for? Seems like such little work to add 1 line of description and help the coin market tremendously. Dead horse I know.

Elcontador

Glad to help. It's very difficult to find problem free, well struck Unc. Braided Hair Half Cents. The most common ones offered are the 1855s. They almost always have a horrible strike, with soft stars, and missing denticles between 2:00 and 5:00. They usually are turd brown and have as much eye appeal as the two words would indicate.

coinguy1

I don't see evidence that the coin has been plugged. Unless it's the lighting, the lighter area around the date looks cleaned, however. You don't really know what's wrong with it though, so why try to tell the dealer, unless you're just going to tell him it was body-bagged? Do you even have a return privilege at this time?

PerryHall

<< <i>I don't see evidence that the coin has been plugged. Unless it's the lighting, the lighter area around the date looks cleaned, however. You don't really know what's wrong with it though, so why try to tell the dealer, unless you're just going to tell him it was body-bagged? Do you even have a return privilege at this time? >>



Agree. I also don't see this plug. Why would anyone go to the expense of professionally plugging a hole in a common date cent?

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

I'm a little past the deadline, but I thought a little knowledge might persuade him to accept the return.

I checked the reverse of where the suspected plug was and meaured it in mm. I could not find any corresponding spot on the reverse.

However, to the right of Liberty I check with a high power loop and it appears there may be parallel verticle scratches under the brown toning.

Perhaps it was cleaned and retoned. Would that result in a 94?

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

Can anyone tell me how to attach smaller pictures?

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

Holed & plugged has its own code #84, so that's not it. It just bugs me that PCGS will shoot down a coin and give such a vague reason. I tried calling them and the young man said he didn't know but that it usually means thumbed or whizzed. Cleaned also has a different code than 94-altered surfaces.

sinin1

I suspect it was lightly whizzed

in the area of the jaw and upper neck =
a triangular region from nose to ear to bottom front of neck
the whizzing looks like from 11 o'clock to 6 o'clock angle

used to cover/reduce a scratch on lower jaw at angle of 2nd to 10th star



you need to view this coin under a light and rotate it and look at the luster

to see if any is present where it should not be at different angles, or if some is missing

hammered54

I really need to get my eye's checked although I do like the term "turd brown" ...RD, RB, and now ...TB..lol.

notwilight

I don't see a plug.

The fields look fine, not whizzed.

I don't think it is cleaned and recolored.

The devices look a little funny but maybe it is just the light. If what I'm seeing is real, the devices look to be polished or perhaps burnished, perhaps lightly cleaned with an eraser. But it is hard to tell with an eraser.

I didn't take the time to try to attribute it. If you look at the attribution, you might find something that doesn't match up. If it was tooled or reworked, it looks to have been done a long time ago.

If your dealer will take it back because it bodybagged at PCGS he is exceptional.


--Jerry

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

Yes, there is some pitting in that area and you can see the tool marks at the right angle. All of the odd little places on both sides show the same buffing. It looks like they were removing rust spots with a dremel.

In any case I need to send it back.

Thanks everbody for helping me learn to spot this kind of damage.

sinin1

removing rust spots with a dremel is possibly a very accurate desription



anyway, grading services call that altered surfaces


this must be an older submission
because now it would have came back in a genuine slab (or is there a box to check for no slab on genuine?)

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

Checked "don't slab genuine", it came back in a flip.

Mercury10c

I agree with notwilight. I do not see evidence of a plug, or whizzing.
The lines that sinin1 refers to are all die polishing lines.
What about the red spots? My opinion is that this is why
the coin BB'd.

Elcontador

While the color around the date does not match up with the rest of the coin, look to the rt. of star 4. It look likes some work was done there, below which to me appears to be some foreign substance going down in a line I described above.

keets

94-----altered surfaces.

perhaps everyone is reading too much into "altered" and it's as simple as the color not being right. whenever i see a coin which has irregular or non-uniform color, specifically the three large reddish areas(but red sprinkled throughout), it tells me that the surface has been tampered with. with lighter areas around the devices that would probably be dipped and retoned with this coin.

ICOLLECTINEEDHELP

You have all made good points and all of these are possible. With that in mind it tells me this coin is wrong on many levels.

I think I'd better return it without comment.

Thanks everyone for the great information. As always I learned a lot.

WaterSport

I think puttied to hid the corrosion spots (red spots). If you acetone that coin, it will come out dull as a rock after having removed the putty. VERY common practice on large and half cents.

WS

joecopper

An awful lot of differrent colors. I do not like the color at date and left side of the reverse. I do not see the plug or the whizzing.
This coin would have to be seen "in hand".

Edscoin

Just looks cleaned and recolored to me.

lkeigwin

For all the griping we do often PCGS is spot on.

Here's an old ANACS coin, an 1875-S 20c graded MS60. I asked to cross with no minimum. It came back with altered surfaces.

I did an innocent acetone dip, which should have no affect on legitimate toning. And damned if all the artificial toning didn't disappear, only to reveal sorry stains on both sides.

Sure I was pissed...but not at PCGS. Kudo's to them.
Lance.