Interesting Engelhard Gold...Concerned

bstat1020

Below are some pictures of a nice looking gold Engelhard bar with the Maple design. The concern I have that it almost looks like it is plated. Especially on the back of the bar where it is flat. Can anybody help me out with my concerns on this bar, and the originallity of the packaging it is in?




It is nearly identical to the silver one I have.

gecko109

SG never lies UNLESS its plated Tungsten. I suggest taking measurements. The height x width x thickness (dont include the raised rim). Take these 3 measurements in centimeteres. For example 4.5cm x 3.2 cm x 0.3 cm = 4.32 cm3. Once you find the bar's rough volume estimate calculated in cubic cm, you simply multiply that number by 19.3 (gold's SG). If the result of this equation isnt very close to 31, then you may have a fuhgazee. Since your measurements will not be 100% precise, and the bar does have a raised rim that you are ignoring, your result should be somewhere in the 27-32 range if the bar is legit. Any less than 27 and its worth either returning the bar (if thats an option still), or taking it out of the packaging for a more accurate SG test.

AboutAg

It isn't likely that it is fake. If someone is going to go to the trouble of counterfeiting a gold bar, it is unlikely that they would choose a rarely-encountered one. I haven't heard of any serial-numbered bars that were counterfeited (although it could be done, it's more work), nor any with packaging that realistic (I can't verify that the original packaging looked like that, but it certainly appears legitimate). If someone was going to go to that much work, they would likely do a lot of them, and pick an easier target (perhaps the Credit Suisse 1oz gold bars).

That being said, 'isn't likely' isn't an answer. If they are fake, they could be altered silver bars (as you suggest). In that case, the specific gravity test that gecko109 recommends would work well (silver is almost half the density of gold).

Another quick thing you could do is check the size with the silver one you have -- if it is the same height/width, the silver one should noticeably thicker. If different height/width, you know it is not an altered silver bar.

Of course, keeping it in the packaging makes these tests a bit tricky (e.g. you can't get a very accurate measurement of thickness, and you can't be sure how much the bar weighs versus the packaging).

CaptHenway

Looks OK to me.
TD

gsa1fan

I'll swap you a Krugerrand 1oz for it. Bar looks good to me

bstat1020

<< <i>SG never lies UNLESS its plated Tungsten. I suggest taking measurements. The height x width x thickness (dont include the raised rim). Take these 3 measurements in centimeteres. For example 4.5cm x 3.2 cm x 0.3 cm = 4.32 cm3. Once you find the bar's rough volume estimate calculated in cubic cm, you simply multiply that number by 19.3 (gold's SG). If the result of this equation isnt very close to 31, then you may have a fuhgazee. Since your measurements will not be 100% precise, and the bar does have a raised rim that you are ignoring, your result should be somewhere in the 27-32 range if the bar is legit. Any less than 27 and its worth either returning the bar (if thats an option still), or taking it out of the packaging for a more accurate SG test. >>



Here are my dimensions:

2.6cm x 4.8cm x .1 cm thick = 1.248cm3

1.248 * 19.3 = 24.0864

gecko109

If you are fairly certain about your measurements....particularly the thickness (thats the tricky one!), then it appears to be a little light. However, because that thickness measurement is the least reliable, if I was to plug in .13 on the thickness instead of the .1 that you got, that brings the weight up to a plump 31.3 grams. Did you use a ruler or digital caliper to measure the thickness? If you used a ruler, I wouldnt be too worried about your calculation. A digital caliper, and you may have a problem.

bstat1020

<< <i>If you are fairly certain about your measurements....particularly the thickness (thats the tricky one!), then it appears to be a little light. However, because that thickness measurement is the least reliable, if I was to plug in .13 on the thickness instead of the .1 that you got, that brings the weight up to a plump 31.3 grams. Did you use a ruler or digital caliper to measure the thickness? If you used a ruler, I wouldnt be too worried about your calculation. A digital caliper, and you may have a problem. >>



I used a ruler for all the dimensions. The height and width, I am confident on, but the thickness is very unreliable. I may have a digital caliper around here somewhere, but I would have to deduct for the plastic. I will let you knowif I find a caliper.

Thanks for your help gecko.

CaptHenway

<< <i>I'll swap you a Krugerrand 1oz for it. Bar looks good to me >>



I'd match that offer on a walk-in basis.
Just don't see any problem here.
TD

bstat1020

I found a caliper at work.

2.54* 4.77 * .135 = 1.635
1.635*19.3= 31.555

Looks like it works out.

Thanks for helping me out.

DoubleEagle59

It's fine.