OFFICIAL *REACTION TO THE BIG ONE THREAD*

ambro51

Hey, I know the thread is a bit premature....but like a delicate handmade book, with hand laid rag paper pages, with nothing written...........it is here for your pearls of wisdom!

smokincoin

kryptonitecomics

So far the pre announcements have had little affect on my collecting habits and I don't think the real announcement will either but...........we shall see.....

keets

March 25 10:00am California time...announcement, video, etc. on the PCGS website.

where exactly will the link to the video be, page one??

chucknra

I've rented a suite at the Hilton to celebrate the great movement that will occur this afternoon!

MERLINDAMADONE

Will there be a governor's ball after the big one?

fastrudy

I'm getting it ready now! Don't rush me!

jessewvu

Why so much hype? I think things like this should happen more frequently and should be expected, not draw once in a lifetime excitment.

Shamika

Something tells me my slaps are about to lose some of their value.

ocon4008

This space reserved for future comment.

TrustNo1

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chucknra

<< <i>Something tells me my slaps are about to lose some of their value. >>



Totally agree!!!!

WoodenJefferson

Please, someone help me with this cumber-bun...too ***tight***

Shortgapbob

The big one has been announced at ANA.

waterzooey

AND?

nycounsel

If the Big One was a stock, I would short it.

renomedphys

I'm pretty bummed. And I won't be sending in any of my coins. They'll be just fine in the SDB, OGHs, OBHs and all.

Edited to add:

First and foremost: the simple fact that from this day forward, you will have to explain why all your awesome coins aren't sitting in their "awesome" holders!

Secondly, any coin without a "PLUS" is now automatically deemed what? LQ! Hah! Just one fewer decision to make on your own.

19Lyds

<< <i>I'm pretty bummed. And I won't be sending in any of my coins. They'll be just fine in the SDB, OGHs, OBHs and all. >>


Shouldn't you wait for the "Official" announcement before getting bummed?

ziggy29

BECOKA

Wow this snuck up on me, did not realize it was today. Guess it pays to not pay too much attention to this.

BBN

coinkid855

"The PCGS Secure Plus process uses laser scanning to help detect coins that have been artificially enhanced since their last certification and can also be used to help identify stolen coins."






-Paul

BillyKingsley

I said pretty much exactly what one half of the Big One in that big old thread. Where's my $500?

chucknra

The big letdown!

InternetJunky

So this will make upgrades virtually impossible? If a coin scans in at MS64 is cracked out and resubmitted it'll pop up as a MS64 in the system before the graders even look at it?

droopyd

Meh.

smokincoin

chucknra

<< <i>So this will make upgrades virtually impossible? If a coin scans in at MS64 is cracked out and resubmitted it'll pop up as a MS64 in the system before the graders even look at it? >>



That's correct! Seems like they'd lose money on the deal.

AnkurJ

Pcgs conservation services?

crypto79

<< <i>"The PCGS Secure Plus process uses laser scanning to help detect coins that have been artificially enhanced since their last certification and can also be used to help identify stolen coins."






-Paul >>



That is great for consistency per coin but what about in relationship to others? look at the 1873 xf40 in my sig line compare that to the 76 or the 78. they are all 40 but look 3 -4 grades apart. Hell the 78 looks closer to the 76 in AU55 but in truth the 76 is a little over graded.

crypto79

<< <i>

<< <i>So this will make upgrades virtually impossible? If a coin scans in at MS64 is cracked out and resubmitted it'll pop up as a MS64 in the system before the graders even look at it? >>



That's correct! Seems like they'd lose money on the deal. >>



But they will gain brand value and trust. Who need dealers anymore

ziggy29

<< <i>That's correct! Seems like they'd lose money on the deal. >>

Strictly from a marketing and finance perspective, it sounds to me like a tradeoff between short-term revenue and long-term revenue.

In the short term this could result in a rush of resubmissions (and spiked revenue), but in the long run it could hurt the bottom line because of fewer crack out resubmissions.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

InternetJunky

Also, why would someone steal PCGS graded coins, crack them out then resubmit them to the same company? The only way that security feature would work is if someone stole coins, cracked them out, and submitted them to say ANACS or something, THEN proceeded to sell them to someone and that someone submitted to PCGS..IF that would even happen. The coins could be gone for years before the original owner is contacted - if ever.

lcoopie

I don't see it as a fundamental change to our hobby.

pitboss

Not for me !

luckyman

As a relatively new person to the hobby, I like the IPhone app. When I go to a show or my local B & M or even on Ebay (if decent pics are shown) I can do some quick analysis (I know the examples may not be

perfect, but they are still a guide) which will help me value what I'm looking at a little more accurately than my limited personal experience would allow. I also like the free e-mail updates/info. I know many of you

are experts in the field and as such don't appreciate what they've put together. I think this will actually enhance their business in that it will draw more and give the newbies more confidence while negotiating at

the dealer's tables. You must admit, it's alot better than looking at the RED BOOK for values without any pics that define the different grades. JMHO

EagleEye

no more gradeflation - good
no more doctored coins in Secure Plus holders - good
pricing for PQ coins - good
the return of sight-unseen bidding - not good, since it will fuel another 90's style price run-up, which will lead to the inevitable crash in 10 years.

Aegis3

After a quick read-through on the homepage...

"and the descent of commercial numismatics into pseudoscience quickens..."

Broadstruck

My reaction at this moment is I need 2 of these...

ambro51

Out of the many wacky, crazy, just plain dumb, witty, over the top, bizarre, clever, impossible guesses as to what "The Big One" was.....Im feeling that for the most part I nailed it on a previous post. Ive read, and reread the official PCGS statement, and see many similarities with what I wrote.
The basic diference between the PCGS statement, and what I wrote below is that they are not admitting that the scan of the coin will be used in determining grade. HOWEVER, the implication is certainly there. If not used to determine grade, it is used to permanantly AFFIX the grade.

The concept though, I feel, is 95% of what I wrote.






Wednesday March 17, 2010 2:51 PM



For as long as we can remember, coin grading has been "subjective", and open to opinion. Coins are graded using one basic path, that being the accumulated experience and 'eye' of graders and finalizers who have "seen it all before". It is a visual and experience oriented comparison with the accepted grade patterns of that particular coin and series.

It has, up to this point, all been done 'mentally'. This has always been tempered with the word "subjective", and cannot be called scientific by any reasoning.

But, you say, how can coins be graded in an accurate and consistant manner, without using the "brain" of the graders?

......the most effective way would be a fool proof method of comparing the coin to be graded with those of a like date/type/series that are already 'wearing' a certain grade. With the advances in high quality scanning and digital photography, no doubt over the LAST TWO YEARS (as HRH notes).....a system has been developed using a vast compilation of data that PCGS has gathered together while grading.

Now, the most important part will be that for the most part, the "human" factor will be taken out of the mix. This will be replaced with LASER SCANNING of the coin, which will provide an exceptionally intricate and multi faceted way to compare the coin against the accepted grade standard. By the very detailed nature of this examination, all defects and wear related changes to the coin from the basis MS70 perfect standard can be measured and calculated. Toning, RD RB BN coloration, hairlines, cleanings, luster, quality of strike.......all will be analyzed by the LASER system and computer programs and a grade will be "Calculated and Assigned" which will be much less 'subjective'.

Photograding is not new. It has been tried and for the most part dismissed since up to this point the technology and intense work needed to perfect this has not been done. Over the last two years...I believe, PCGS has been working with the LASER GRADING system to iron out the bugs. No doubt, they have been using a twin grading system in house, and have been carefully studying the results of the LASER system, and the HUMAN system, and have arrived at the conclusion that they are ready to reveal that the LASER system gives more consistant results and proves a more accurate grade than has been to date possible.

After this announcement, coins will FLOOD back into PCGS for regrading by the new LASER system. The guesswork will be eliminated, the subjective nature of the human brain be taken out of the picture, and the NEW SYSTEM will be accepted by the coin collecting world as "the next step.


This will also provide an extensive and detailed record of the minor flaws that each graded coin has. Of course, having this in the data bank will help recovery of stolen coins, aid in the detection of counterfeits, and after a period of 'acceptance' by the collectors, result in a more trustworthy TPG experiece



............and dats what I think~!

TrustNo1

I am relieved!!! I thought it was going to be a government-run grading system..Thankfully it isnt!!!!!

LRCTom

Do I understand this right...you can only get a "Plus" if you pay extra for Secure Plus? Regular submissions will just get the numerical grade, even if the coin fully qualifies for a Plus?

Very underwhelming.

Prethen

I applaud PCGS's efforts at fingerprinting a coin so that it can be accurately traced now. Bravo! Population reports might retain some meaning again one day.

I'm okay with the Plus as it's essentially a contender with NGC's star system.

ecichlid

Rick, I respect you as a knowledgeable authority on small cents.



<< <i>no more gradeflation - good >>


Oh yes there will be.



<< <i>no more doctored coins in Secure Plus holders - good >>


Even the best graders get fooled by doctored coins in the first place. I'm not sure exactly what the process is with the laser scanning, but if someone cracks out a secured coins and re-submits it raw (unless it's ultra-rarity and the grader recognizes the coin). How would the scanner know this is not a different coin? I suspect it doesn't.



<< <i>pricing for PQ coins - good >>


Yes, you don't don't need a sticker on the coin to tell you it's PQ. Are you dropping PhotoSeal? I doubt you would. >>





<< <i>the return of sight-unseen bidding - not good, since it will fuel another 90's style price run-up, which will lead to the inevitable crash in 10 years. >>


Not a chance. Those days are gone forever.

ecichlid

<< <i>Population reports might retain some meaning again one day. >>



Nope. They are already tainted. This does not clean up the mess.

INXS

This sure was "Much Ado About Nothing".

ziggy29

<< <i>I'm okay with the Plus as it's essentially a contender with NGC's star system. >>

Sort of, but NGC's explanation of the 'star' grade is not the same as PCGS's use of the '+' grade.

NGC's 63 "star" isn't necessarily a coin that "just missed" 64, but rather a coin that grades 63 with high eye appeal. With PCGS, a 63+ is a coin which just missed 64. It's possible that the marketplace might view them somewhat similarly, though.

SeaEagleCoins

My reaction ---

Come see me at the next shows... I will be holding a "fire sale"... after all this hoopla... I have now lost all confidence in the entire TPG game... no different than those "other people we can't mention on this forum without being OT" ... the more things change, the more they stay the same...

The graders can't even come with consistant grades at this point... and they will "improve" the "system" with a + ... really?

As for the Secure stuff... as others have already pointed out... this will not stop unholdered or previously holdered coins from being messed with... I am not impressed... can't believe they wasted two years on this... (maybe they could come up with a way to thwart counterfeiting? ... nah... can't be done)

I said it in another thread and I'll repeat it here... I nominate DH for "Drama Queen Coin Nerd of the Year"...


... as for the "fire sale"... all slabs at bid or less until all my coins are in the raw... enough already...

CaptHenway

Much A-DooDoo About Nothing.........

fishteeth