How long is the PCGS plastic supposed to last?

Prethen

Okay, odd question I know, but I was thinking about this one after watching several hours of "Life After People" on the History Channel.

Let's assume the following, the coin inside really doesn't matter, but we'll just say it's a 1909-SVDB Lincoln 1¢ in a PCGS MS66BN holder. The holder is in someone's dresser drawer in the midwest (low to moderate humidity). And, there is no one is around to moderate the temperature or humidity....forever.

How long before the holder starts to deteriorate?

I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years.

This ultimately begs the question, assuming if PCGS is around a hundred plus years from now, will there be tons of holders coming back for reholdering after the plastic has started to age and crack?

dbcoin

Funny, I had the same thought. In one of those episodes, they said the gold in NYC at the Fed would last forever. So if the holder held a gold piece, the gold would last forever.

PerryHall

<< <i>I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years. >>



Where did those numbers come from? SWAG?

Prethen

<< <i>

<< <i>I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years. >>



Where did those numbers come from? SWAG? >>


Total SWAG. I would guess that the plastic compound is continually drying out (isn't it oils that make it?) and eventually it would become so dry as to become brittle.

lkeigwin

My guess is that PCGS looked at this issue carefully and may even have a rough idea.

I found this, which refers to "lifespan", a somewhat vague term. I think the OP's question has less to do with lifespan than with the point at which the holder is no longer doing its intended job.

"* The average life span of plastic demijohn is from 400 to 600 hundred years.
* The average life span of plastic bottle is from 300 to 500 hundred years.
* The plastic bags have a life span of 30 to 60 years.
* The plastic rings, which hold pop cans together, have a life span of 450 years.
* The food wrappers have a life span from 20 to 30 years.
* Condoms have the life span of 30 years.

Pieces of plastic, such as the rings around pop bottles, and milk bottles, have the life span of hundreds of years, depending on the quality."
Lance.

yellowkid

.
* Condoms have the life span of 30 years.

Prethen

I wonder what "lifespan" means exactly? Does it mean when the plastic starts to deteriorate or has already basically disintegrated completely?

renomedphys

I don't know, but I have wondered the very same thing with regards to amounts of heat that the plastic can withstand.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Okay, odd question I know, but I was thinking about this one after watching several hours of "Life After People" on the History Channel.

Let's assume the following, the coin inside really doesn't matter, but we'll just say it's a 1909-SVDB Lincoln 1¢ in a PCGS MS66BN holder. The holder is in someone's dresser drawer in the midwest (low to moderate humidity). And, there is no one is around to moderate the temperature or humidity....forever.

How long before the holder starts to deteriorate?

I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years.

This ultimately begs the question, assuming if PCGS is around a hundred plus years from now, will there be tons of holders coming back for reholdering after the plastic has started to age and crack? >>



Low to moderate humidity?
What part of the Midwest is that? I have lived in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois, and none of them qualify.
TD

Prethen

<< <i>

<< <i>Okay, odd question I know, but I was thinking about this one after watching several hours of "Life After People" on the History Channel.

Let's assume the following, the coin inside really doesn't matter, but we'll just say it's a 1909-SVDB Lincoln 1¢ in a PCGS MS66BN holder. The holder is in someone's dresser drawer in the midwest (low to moderate humidity). And, there is no one is around to moderate the temperature or humidity....forever.

How long before the holder starts to deteriorate?

I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years.

This ultimately begs the question, assuming if PCGS is around a hundred plus years from now, will there be tons of holders coming back for reholdering after the plastic has started to age and crack? >>



Low to moderate humidity?
What part of the Midwest is that? I have lived in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois, and none of them qualify.
TD >>


Think Colorado then. I realize that's probably considered The West.

LanLord

<< <i>Okay, odd question I know, but I was thinking about this one after watching several hours of "Life After People" on the History Channel.

Let's assume the following, the coin inside really doesn't matter, but we'll just say it's a 1909-SVDB Lincoln 1¢ in a PCGS MS66BN holder. The holder is in someone's dresser drawer in the midwest (low to moderate humidity). And, there is no one is around to moderate the temperature or humidity....forever.

How long before the holder starts to deteriorate?

I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years.

This ultimately begs the question, assuming if PCGS is around a hundred plus years from now, will there be tons of holders coming back for reholdering after the plastic has started to age and crack? >>



Okay, first I need to dissect the idea. If it's a "life after people" thing, no one will be around to know or care, unless we have lower forms of life posting here (lower than dealers!).

Wolf359

Yes, who cares? I admit there is a fascination with the show, as implausible as it is.

Broadstruck

Wrap your slabs in prophylactics and add another 30 years

Prethen

<< <i>Yes, who cares? I admit there is a fascination with the show, as implausible as it is. >>


Well, actually there is a practical reason for this as well. Who knows if PCGS will be around, but just how long before you have no choice but to put another piece of plastic around your little metal treasure?

By the way, it's no fair to respond by saying that "who cares" since we'll all be long dead. Your descendents will have to worry about protecting them...or maybe they'll just melt 'em down for the metal content since no one will care about coinage.

rld14

The slabs look like polysterene or something close enough to it. I'd think that they would last hundreds of years myself.

BaseballAbs

Then after 100 years what? You touch them and they crack?

ColonialCoinUnion

Of all the things in numismatics about which you should be concerned, this isn't one of them.

BaseballAbs

I was actually joking.

mozin

I can tell you that NGC clear plastic used twenty years ago, is obviously turning color by now. Why worry about the rest of the holder, when one cannot see the coin properly, because the clear plastic turns not so clear?

bestmr

If they are kept, lets say in a dresser drawer, in low humidity and no sunshine, I'd say they could last hundreds of years. Now if we get all wiped out with say a gamma ray burst, I think the sun and weather would destroy our houses within 10-25 years with the slab going shortly after that.

diamondman

12/22/12 one day longer than the rest of us.

pmac

<< <i>I can tell you that NGC clear plastic used twenty years ago, is obviously turning color by now. Why worry about the rest of the holder, when one cannot see the coin properly, because the clear plastic turns not so clear? >>


This is called toning and will add value to the slab, unless of course you're RICKO.

PawPaul

.........i'm with bestmr ; I would make an educated guess of a few hundred years

Staircoins

<< <i>...By the way, it's no fair to respond by saying that "who cares" since we'll all be long dead. Your ancestors will have to worry about protecting them...or maybe they'll just melt 'em down for the metal content since no one will care about coinage. >>

I promise you, my ancestors had no interest in my coins. My descendants, on the other hand ...

Prethen

<< <i>

<< <i>...By the way, it's no fair to respond by saying that "who cares" since we'll all be long dead. Your ancestors will have to worry about protecting them...or maybe they'll just melt 'em down for the metal content since no one will care about coinage. >>

I promise you, my ancestors had no interest in my coins. My descendants, on the other hand ... >>


Good catch...thanks!

chucknra

Actually this is the BIG NEWS that's coming out next week....but don't tell anyone!

Prethen

<< <i>Actually this is the BIG NEWS that's coming out next week....but don't tell anyone! >>


1000 Year Guarantee?

MajorDuty

<< <i> * Condoms have the life span of 30 years. >>



Totally disagree. It's a little more than an hour on a good night.

tahoe98

...no need to worry about the plastic. we need to worry about the BEAN!

Silverstate

<< <i>Wrap your slabs in prophylactics and add another 30 years >>

Nysoto

Polymer degradation is accelerated by UV radiation. I would recommend SPF 50 lotion for slabs when exposed to light.

Blackhawk

Our collecting ancestors never worried about such things and stored their coins in what would be considered crude attempts at preserving pristine surfaces by our modern standards...yet just look at how a lot of those old silver coins are bright white and those old highly reactive copper cents are nice and red - it makes you wonder what their secret was, or maybe it makes you wonder about how many of those old collection coins have been dipped or acid treated and still make it into holders or are fawned upon by collectors who claim to love original surfaces. Many times it's not the coin, but those who own or praise it.

Walmann

Thought it was good to last until it doesn't sticker.

joebb21

if my slabs start cracking in 100 years, Ill reholder them

NitroCruiser

Too many variables to consider. How long will the home last that shelters the furniture that has the drawer with the slab in it. Once the wood around it is wet and decomposing, the coin inside might start to corrode due to wood gases released from the rotting furniture. Wood will hold moisture as well. I would say from worst case to best would be 50 years and up. It the slab quickly gets covered by a dense layer of dirt or clay that would be the best case for long survival in the wild. If it falls in a place that puddles every time it rains, much lower life expectancy.

Wolf359

<< <i>

<< <i> * Condoms have the life span of 30 years. >>



Totally disagree. It's a little more than an hour on a good night. >>



What the hell are you superman?

MajorDuty

<< <i>What the hell are you superman? >>



Nope. Just inefficient.

I have a feeling that the slab plastic will far outlast collectors' interest to keep the contents within. Better storage techniques, grading scale changes or new technologies will emerge that will encourage the abstraction of the coin from its tomb.

BigE

Blackhawk brings up an interesting point, would a new slabbed silver dollar such as an ASE have a different original surface 50 years from now from confinement, as opposed to say a bust dollar original surface never being inside a holder. Can a freshly minted coin that is graded right away EVER have an original surface compared to coins of the past?------------------------------BigE

SDSportsFan

<< <i>Wrap your slabs in prophylactics and add another 30 years >>




Just make sure they aren't the pre-lubed kind




Then again, if you are worried about the slabs drying out..........




Steve

astrorat

From a chemical perspective, the coins start deteriorating immediately after striking. You must be referring to after how long the deterioration is visible, correct?

Lane

Marauderrt10

a friend of mine who designed the holders/plastic says they will long outlast the owner.

LindeDad

Longer than the collector is superfluous unless you’re going into the ground with them.

Prethen

<< <i>a friend of mine who designed the holders/plastic says they will long outlast the owner. >>


Obviously...but at how many owners down the line would it be before they have to change it?

Marauderrt10

<< <i>

<< <i>a friend of mine who designed the holders/plastic says they will long outlast the owner. >>


Obviously...but at how many owners down the line would it be before they have to change it? >>

lets just say we probably wont be driving on the ground by the time that happens

SUMORADA

How long is the PCGS plastic supposed to last?


The question reminds me of 35 or so years ago when I was learning to be a goldsmith, I remember asking my mentor..Dave Hatz ..a good man who passed several years ago.....

"How much heat should I use...or how much pressure should I apply while setting stones etc."

He always gave one of two answers..........

A Til just before it melts.

B. Til just before it breaks.

halfhunter

<< <i>* Condoms have the life span of 30 years. >>



Does that mean that the one I've carried in my wallet since 1972 might not be any good?

JRocco

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>a friend of mine who designed the holders/plastic says they will long outlast the owner. >>


Obviously...but at how many owners down the line would it be before they have to change it? >>

lets just say we probably wont be driving on the ground by the time that happens >>



I just hope the Save the Earth crowd doesn't find out about these little old coin slabs that never degrade back into
humus or something similar.
Imagine the protests.
I bet someone will claim they are increasing the polar bear extinction.

Barry

Keep them out of the sun and they'll last forever, or until grading standards change, whichever comes first.

pendragon1998

I read a post-apocalyptic novel called Earth Abides once. After the collapse, the paltry few survivors managed to get off a few generations of descendants; however, those descendants regressed technologically to somewhere around the stone age (bows and arrows and whatnot). Interestingly, they liked to use nickels and dimes scavenged from derelict banks and stores to form their arrowheads from, since the metal was easy to work into that shape.

I didn't particularly like the book, FWIW.

lkeigwin

Really, this is nothing to worry about. As long as "The Big One" comes along every 20 years or so and everything needs re-slabbing.
Lance.

GRANDAM

<< <i>Okay, odd question I know, but I was thinking about this one after watching several hours of "Life After People" on the History Channel.

Let's assume the following, the coin inside really doesn't matter, but we'll just say it's a 1909-SVDB Lincoln 1¢ in a PCGS MS66BN holder. The holder is in someone's dresser drawer in the midwest (low to moderate humidity). And, there is no one is around to moderate the temperature or humidity....forever.

How long before the holder starts to deteriorate?

I'll take a stab that it will start deterioriating at around 100-150 years.

This ultimately begs the question, assuming if PCGS is around a hundred plus years from now, will there be tons of holders coming back for reholdering after the plastic has started to age and crack? >>



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This must be it,,,,,, The Big One,,,,,,,,, PCGS will introduce a new 500 year coin holder