<< <i>Pat, my understanding of the post is that the coin was claimed to have been cracked out of an NGC MS64 holder and submitted raw to PCGS with a minimum grade request of MS67. I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post.
By the way, the die crack in Washington's head is an uber common crack and it would surprise me greatly if the grader(s) thought that it was a grade limiting scratch. >>
Im here to shed sone light on the subject. NGC was terreible at grading quarters and almost never got them right. The coin in question had milky spots all over the coin which more than likely limited the grade. I put it in an acetone bath fir about 10 minutes and wouldn't you know, they all came off. This coin is going to stay in my personal collection until I deside to sell it.
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves
<<I might have a picture I can post, I'm in the movies right now so I'll do it later >>
Just post the coin in the slab or the registry number and end the inquiry already! MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves >>
That was not the point. I did not think PCGS allowed minimum grades on raw submissions only on crossovers. The only exception was on bulk raw submissions.
By putting a minimum grade of MS-67 and paying the fee anyway why would you want to throw away PCGS's grade decision on the coin and lose the benefit of their telling you what grade they feel the coin is even if below MS-67? By stating a minimum grade isn't that tantamount to asking for a body bag (previously was done) without a grade assignment?
<< <i>Who would cross a coin (leave out any recently minted coin), get a PCGS 68 from an NGC 64, and crack it for an album (if it's true, I guess we know who would)? I certainly wouldn't. Not casting stones, but as Lee pointed out, I see no MS68's for '55. >>
Perhaps my reading comprehension is off today, didn't he crack it from the NGC MS64 holder (and possibly not getting a photo of it within that slab...) and get it raw into a PCGS MS68 holder where it is still today?
Am I (now) reading it was placed in a PCGS slab and then cracked out? >>
Your reading comprehension was correct on your first assumption. From what I understand, Marauder only got the grade, he hadn't received the coin when he made his post.
Perhaps he could share his order and post the order number?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves >>
The form instructions specifically state that a minimum acceptable grade is not required but, if specified, and the coin actually grades lower, then it will not be holdered.
As for the "Whats the point if it came back lower?", I guess the point is that, since it was raw, at least it would have a grade?
Or did I miss something??
Can you post the order number?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves >>
The form instructions specifically state that a minimum acceptable grade is not required but, if specified, and the coin actually grades lower, then it will not be holdered.
As for the "Whats the point if it came back lower?", I guess the point is that, since it was raw, at least it would have a grade?
Or did I miss something??
Can you post the order number? >>
If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. As of right now I am not posting any more info on the coin till I get it in hand.
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
time to give up the charade before it gets out of hand. It came back a ms67.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
time to give up the charade before it gets out of hand. It came back a ms67. >>
Wow. Step away to do the dishes and what happens??
Why I oughta!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
So if PCGS does not tell you the grade when specifying a minimum grade and it fails the grade why would anyone want to throw away the free PCGS slabbing at this point even at a lower grade unless you REALLY despise cracking it out again?
At the very least, you get a grade and a slab which seems to be valuable information and a possible savings to money the next go-around to me.
<< <i>Are we going to find out next that it really didn't jump from NGC MS64 to PCGS MS67? >>
I've already learned to believe nothing from the OP as he just seems to want to impress others for the sake of needing to feel better than others. You're a very trusting guy, Pat, which can be a good thing, but in this case, it wasn't.
Excellent point Ron, but I learned early on it is better to trust too much and sometimes get burned than to not trust enough and go through life miserable for it.
<< <i>Are we going to find out next that it really didn't jump from NGC MS64 to PCGS MS67? >>
I've already learned to believe nothing from the OP as he just seems to want to impress others for the sake of needing to feel better than others. You're a very trusting guy, Pat, which can be a good thing, but in this case, it wasn't. >>
Sorry you think that way, but you couldn't be more wrong. I post coins because this is a coin forum no? It's not like I go around saying other peoples coins are inferior and whatnot. There are plenty of beautiful coins on here that I would love to own, so if you really think that way then you need to get out more.
You know I respect your opinions highly here. You feel it is a 65 or 66, at best. I had graded it a 67 based on the assurances that the apparent weakness on the right side of the reverse (eagle wingspan) was a photo glitch. I stated 67 based on the assumption that the photo does not show a strong strike there.
If the reverse is struck very strong would you still give it a 65 or 66 and why?
Just trying to compare my measuring stick vs yours.
MANOFCOINS I'm still very curious as to your opinion, based on your experience, that PCGS would more likely give a grade higher to a Wash that has a tone verses one that didn't. With this scenario both coins would be technically the same as far as strike and lack of defects.
My experience with PCGS graded MS68 WQs is also that the coin must have fantastic luster and that the coin must possess some toning. The single PCGS MS68 that I owned had incredible luster and terrific, medium depth toning. The white or untoned coins show off minute ticks or hits more easily than wonderfully toned coins and are also held back somewhat, in my opinion, with how much weight is given to their eye appeal. Therefore, I believe a white or untoned silver WQ faces a somewhat tougher task to obtain the MS68 grade at PCGS.
<< <i> time to give up the charade before it gets out of hand. It came back a ms67. >>
I don't think this is funny. I don't think it's a game either. You tried to BS members of this forum to pump up your image. And you backed down only when confronted.
I think you just lost whatever credibility you had here. Your veracity will always be questioned. Lance.
TomB Thanks for your explanation. I am also referring to Ms67's as well. I do in fact find that toned coins have more eye appeal but my main point is/was if other than toning all technical aspects of the two are equal why would PCGS graders be more lenient with the toned ones? I wrote earlier it would suggest that coins that had been exposed to an environment that promotes toning is given special consideration than ones that were more carefully packaged/stored.
Well, I think one must always take into account eye appeal when discussing a grade. The reason for this is that eye appeal, as subjective as it is, is a major component of the overall grade of a coin. Therefore, I don't know that PCGS is more lenient on coins with terrific toning, but rather they might reward those coins more in the eye appeal component of the grade. I have a number of PCGS MS67+ WQs and they are not all identical with their number of marks, severity of marks, placement of hits or relative strength of strike and some might not grade MS67 if they were not toned. Going a bit further down the scale, I own at least one MS66 that would never receive the grade if not for the added weight of the eye appeal contributed by the toning.
TomB Thanks for you insights! I think what you had to say about that makes sense whether I agree with their (PCGS) favoritism toward toned coins or not.
<< <i> time to give up the charade before it gets out of hand. It came back a ms67. >>
I don't think this is funny. I don't think it's a game either. You tried to BS members of this forum to pump up your image. And you backed down only when confronted.
I think you just lost whatever credibility you had here. Your veracity will always be questioned. Lance. >>
Uhhhhh, I think he was just playing around folks and at the very minimum would garner a "You screwing with the forums again?" question for the next coin posted.
As for the coin itself?
I would have thought those two hits on the reverse would have kept it out of an MS68 holder not to mention the disappearing wing.
IMO, folks are welcome to play around as long as the come clean.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Bingo. And when confronted, goes into attack mode with "you need to get out more" instead of just owning up to the fact that folks don't necessarily care for those antics here and living with it.
ManOfCoins: Agreed with your assessment. That dovetails with my thinking as well.
TomB; Also in agreement.
Another aspect to consider is that I have noticed that PCGS can and sometimes does weight the reverse a bit less than 50% when it is inferior to the obverse. I was pleasantly surprised to cross a MS-67 NGC slabbed 1956 (w/ undesignated Type B reverse) to a PCGS MS-66 designated type B reverse despite the reverse really being inferior to the obverse. The obverse was a solid MS-66 and the reverse being a MS-65, at best. Despite the reverse, the coin garnered a 66 (with the type B reverse designation).
Bingo. And when confronted, goes into attack mode with "you need to get out more" instead of just owning up to the fact that folks don't necessarily care for those antics here and living with it. >>
No one is in attack mode but yourself. Clearly by the PMs I'm getting I can tell that most don't give a hoot about it. You seem to be overly offended at the idea of a joke. Does it even concern you? No, so there really shouldn't be any reason for you to be mad about it. Like I said before, if you get this bent out of shape about something as trivial as this, then you really do need to occupy your time more wisely...
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
time to give up the charade before it gets out of hand. It came back a ms67. >>
when an animal is cornered -it sometimes up-chucks to distract the preditor
Time to vote, yeah or nah for a collectors universe banning.
...I vote yeah.
Why come on here, and lie about getting a coin graded a certain grade???????????????? I don't get it, maybe a self-esteem problem, not sure.
And that '55 looks ms66 at best, I think it didn't grade obviously if you put a minimum ms67.
And your pics are hiding all the flaws and luster breaks on the obverse/reverse. please post a normal pic you would take of your other morgans/trade dollars and report back
It took a bit but what you have both have said to me has finally sunken in. Your right Craig it was well stated, such that I finally think I turned that corner. I will most likely send in some whites but my expectations will be a bit lower. I'm not sure why I couldn't grasp that concept/reality sooner, engineering background I suppose, but now that its sunk in I concur with your 67.7 grade on your 60. Thanks very much to both of you as this point has been had me confused or quite some time.
Comments
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point.
<< <i>Pat, my understanding of the post is that the coin was claimed to have been cracked out of an NGC MS64 holder and submitted raw to PCGS with a minimum grade request of MS67. I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post.
By the way, the die crack in Washington's head is an uber common crack and it would surprise me greatly if the grader(s) thought that it was a grade limiting scratch. >>
Im here to shed sone light on the subject. NGC was terreible at grading quarters and almost never got them right. The coin in question had milky spots all over the coin which more than likely limited the grade. I put it in an acetone bath fir about 10 minutes and wouldn't you know, they all came off. This coin is going to stay in my personal collection until I deside to sell it.
<< <i>
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves
Just post the coin in the slab or the registry number and end the inquiry already! MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves >>
That was not the point. I did not think PCGS allowed minimum grades on raw submissions only on crossovers. The only exception was on bulk raw submissions.
By putting a minimum grade of MS-67 and paying the fee anyway why would you want to throw away PCGS's grade decision on the coin and lose the benefit of their telling you what grade they feel the coin is even if below MS-67? By stating a minimum grade isn't that tantamount to asking for a body bag (previously was done) without a grade assignment?
<< <i>
<< <i>Who would cross a coin (leave out any recently minted coin), get a PCGS 68 from an NGC 64, and crack it for an album (if it's true, I guess we know who would)? I certainly wouldn't. Not casting stones, but as Lee pointed out, I see no MS68's for '55. >>
Perhaps my reading comprehension is off today, didn't he crack it from the NGC MS64 holder (and possibly not getting a photo of it within that slab...) and get it raw into a PCGS MS68 holder where it is still today?
Am I (now) reading it was placed in a PCGS slab and then cracked out? >>
Your reading comprehension was correct on your first assumption. From what I understand, Marauder only got the grade, he hadn't received the coin when he made his post.
Perhaps he could share his order and post the order number?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves
The form instructions specifically state that a minimum acceptable grade is not required but, if specified, and the coin actually grades lower, then it will not be holdered.
As for the "Whats the point if it came back lower?", I guess the point is that, since it was raw, at least it would have a grade?
Or did I miss something??
Can you post the order number?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> I am not certain why someone would put a minimum grade request on this coin as a raw submission, but that is how I interpret the post. >>
Tom: good point. >>
I put a minimum grade on it because what's the point if it came back lower? If I'm going to spend my hard earned money I expect to get the grade I think it deserves
The form instructions specifically state that a minimum acceptable grade is not required but, if specified, and the coin actually grades lower, then it will not be holdered.
As for the "Whats the point if it came back lower?", I guess the point is that, since it was raw, at least it would have a grade?
Or did I miss something??
Can you post the order number? >>
If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. As of right now I am not posting any more info on the coin till I get it in hand.
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I suggest you seek help. MJ >>
Probably, but I think anyone who deals what us coin collectors go through would need help too.
I feel kind of sheepish now having stuck up for the coin (and, ostensibly, you).
peacockcoins
<< <i>Wow, you had me fooled.
I feel kind of sheepish now having stuck up for the coin (and, ostensibly, you). >>
Looks like I nailed it?
Did I win the coin?
Out of curiosity, had you specified a minimum grade and it failed the grade would PCGS have told you the grade while keeping it raw?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
Wow. Step away to do the dishes and what happens??
Why I oughta!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Marauderrt10: So this was sort of a double secret quiz?
Looks like I nailed it?
Did I win the coin?
Out of curiosity, had you specified a minimum grade and it failed the grade would PCGS have told you the grade while keeping it raw? >>
I don't think they would since on crossover's, they no longer indicate what they thought it would have crossed at.
The name is LEE!
Looks like a white 67, which is unusual in itself.
At the very least, you get a grade and a slab which seems to be valuable information and a possible savings to money the next go-around to me.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Are we going to find out next that it really didn't jump from NGC MS64 to PCGS MS67? >>
I've already learned to believe nothing from the OP as he just seems to want to impress others for the sake of needing to feel better than others.
You're a very trusting guy, Pat, which can be a good thing, but in this case, it wasn't.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>Are we going to find out next that it really didn't jump from NGC MS64 to PCGS MS67? >>
I've already learned to believe nothing from the OP as he just seems to want to impress others for the sake of needing to feel better than others.
You're a very trusting guy, Pat, which can be a good thing, but in this case, it wasn't. >>
Sorry you think that way, but you couldn't be more wrong. I post coins because this is a coin forum no? It's not like I go around saying other peoples coins are inferior and whatnot. There are plenty of beautiful coins on here that I would love to own, so if you really think that way then you need to get out more.
You know I respect your opinions highly here. You feel it is a 65 or 66, at best. I had graded it a 67 based on the assurances that the apparent weakness on the right side of the reverse (eagle wingspan) was a photo glitch. I stated 67 based on the assumption that the photo does not show a strong strike there.
If the reverse is struck very strong would you still give it a 65 or 66 and why?
Just trying to compare my measuring stick vs yours.
I'm still very curious as to your opinion, based on your experience, that PCGS would more likely give a grade higher to a Wash that has a tone verses one that didn't. With this scenario both coins would be technically the same as far as strike and lack of defects.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
I don't think this is funny. I don't think it's a game either. You tried to BS members of this forum to pump up your image. And you backed down only when confronted.
I think you just lost whatever credibility you had here. Your veracity will always be questioned.
Lance.
Thanks for your explanation. I am also referring to Ms67's as well. I do in fact find that toned coins have more eye appeal but my main point is/was if other than toning all technical aspects of the two are equal why would PCGS graders be more lenient with the toned ones? I wrote earlier it would suggest that coins that had been exposed to an environment that promotes toning is given special consideration than ones that were more carefully packaged/stored.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thanks for you insights! I think what you had to say about that makes sense whether I agree with their (PCGS) favoritism toward toned coins or not.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I don't think this is funny. I don't think it's a game either. You tried to BS members of this forum to pump up your image. And you backed down only when confronted.
I think you just lost whatever credibility you had here. Your veracity will always be questioned.
Lance. >>
Uhhhhh, I think he was just playing around folks and at the very minimum would garner a "You screwing with the forums again?" question for the next coin posted.
As for the coin itself?
I would have thought those two hits on the reverse would have kept it out of an MS68 holder not to mention the disappearing wing.
IMO, folks are welcome to play around as long as the come clean.
The name is LEE!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Pathological ... >>
Bingo.
And when confronted, goes into attack mode with "you need to get out more" instead of just owning up to the fact that folks don't necessarily care for those antics here and living with it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
TomB; Also in agreement.
Another aspect to consider is that I have noticed that PCGS can and sometimes does weight the reverse a bit less than 50% when it is inferior to the obverse.
I was pleasantly surprised to cross a MS-67 NGC slabbed 1956 (w/ undesignated Type B reverse) to a PCGS MS-66 designated type B reverse despite the reverse really being inferior to the obverse. The obverse was a solid MS-66 and the reverse being a MS-65, at best. Despite the reverse, the coin garnered a 66 (with the type B reverse designation).
Of course, if he does it too many times I can imagine it could get a little annoying for posters here.
Perhaps he will vary his approach enough in the future so that he does not burn himself and us out.
Back to work for me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Pathological ... >>
Bingo.
And when confronted, goes into attack mode with "you need to get out more" instead of just owning up to the fact that folks don't necessarily care for those antics here and living with it. >>
No one is in attack mode but yourself. Clearly by the PMs I'm getting I can tell that most don't give a hoot about it. You seem to be overly offended at the idea of a joke. Does it even concern you? No, so there really shouldn't be any reason for you to be mad about it. Like I said before, if you get this bent out of shape about something as trivial as this, then you really do need to occupy your time more wisely...
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If it didn't grade then I would just leave it raw till I sent stuff in. I don't post order numbers. Numerous people know where I live on here and that quarter isn't anywhere near as expensive as the stuff I have in this order. >>
Then post the cert number.
Whatever, I can wait since the pops will update early tomorrow morning. >>
when an animal is cornered -it sometimes up-chucks to distract the preditor
going back over some of your comments in other posts I agree you are not feeling well
it is one thing to post a joke , but the eagles left wing is hardly visible no matter how you tilted the coin ........
and you said nothing of removing any spot's originally.........
and the fact is you lied
...I vote yeah.
Why come on here, and lie about getting a coin graded a certain grade???????????????? I don't get it, maybe a self-esteem problem, not sure.
And that '55 looks ms66 at best, I think it didn't grade obviously if you put a minimum ms67.
And your pics are hiding all the flaws and luster breaks on the obverse/reverse. please post a normal pic you would take of your other morgans/trade dollars and report back
But if you're joking with us, don't let the joke continue on so long before coming forward.
TomB
It took a bit but what you have both have said to me has finally sunken in. Your right Craig it was well stated, such that I finally think I turned that corner. I will most likely send in some whites but my expectations will be a bit lower. I'm not sure why I couldn't grasp that concept/reality sooner, engineering background I suppose, but now that its sunk in I concur with your 67.7 grade on your 60. Thanks very much to both of you as this point has been had me confused or quite some time.