PSA 9s vs 10s big price difference.. not much difference in the card

eagles33

Do you think the spread in prices between 9s and 10s is really justified? Obviously the prices are fare value since cards are sold on the open market to a pretty large audiences such as ebay.. i guess its just a personal preference.. personally i think the eye appeal of psa 9 is just as good as a psa 10. i don't think its worth paying 8 to 10x the price of a 9 for a 10.. often times its a crap shoot if a card will get slabbed a 9 or 10.. and you can only tell the difference if you really inspect the card (for me anyways.. i know most of you have a much better eye)

1960toppsguy

I prefer a nice 7 at a fraction of the price for vintage.

fkw

No Way!

Both were NRMT+/MINT pre 1990

perkdog

<< <i>I prefer a nice 7 at a fraction of the price for vintage. >>




I agree, the whole thing with buying PSA 10 cards in my opinion is for 2 things- err 3 things...

#1-You are seriously competing in the registry
#2-It is a 1 of 1 and your hoping to make a profit on it
#3-You got a lot of expendable cash and wont miss the money regardless and you want the *Best*

waxpack

If your buying a PSA 10 from the 80's on up it will never hold it's value. That card may be a low pop now but not for long. To much unopened wax out there yet.

burke23

Some of what I collect are modern rookies (ie Marshall Faulk, Junior Seau)...I like 10's of cards like these since 9's are abundant in raw condition, and i think 10's will hold their value for the low cost...9's are coasters and not worth the grading cost for a lot of them.
That being said, when I got a psa 10 '87 Jabbar (pop 5) - I sold the card for $900 as my 9 looks great, and fits in with my graded (almost complete) set of 9's. I can't hang onto that 40x value difference - that bought me a lot more modern junk!

toothshucker

In my eyes... A low end mint (9) can have less eye appeal than a centered nm (7) in some cases. Generally a gem mint (10) is strong on all points and has that "pop" eye appeal. Whether or not that "pop" is worth 2-10 times the mint (9)value is a great question. Also many high end mint(9)'s also have that "pop" and on a good day could be in a 10 holder- if you dare to spend the money on resubmits. To each his own.

frankhardy

<< <i>If your buying a PSA 10 from the 80's on up it will never hold it's value. That card may be a low pop now but not for long. To much unopened wax out there yet. >>



I'm not so sure. Have you tried finding any 87, 88, and 89 Topps wax packs lately? They are drying up. They can't be found anywhere. I think we'd all better hang on to what we have because in 20 years, they will be worth a lot of money.

ElToroLoco

<< <i> I'm not so sure. Have you tried finding any 87, 88, and 89 Topps wax packs lately? They are drying up. They can't be found anywhere. I think we'd all better hang on to what we have because in 20 years, they will be worth a lot of money. >>



You should charge for your investment advice!

bobbybakeriv

<< <i>

<< <i>I prefer a nice 7 at a fraction of the price for vintage. >>




I agree, the whole thing with buying PSA 10 cards in my opinion is for 2 things- err 3 things...

#1-You are seriously competing in the registry
#2-It is a 1 of 1 and your hoping to make a profit on it
#3-You got a lot of expendable cash and wont miss the money regardless and you want the *Best* >>



I concur with Perkdog. I do love PSA 10s but I only collect a small subset of cards so I can manage it. I do so because I like having the "best" as mentioned above. I admit that I am probably an idiot as there truly isn't much difference in many PSA 9s vs. a PSA 10. Maybe I am just OCD.

I particularly enjoy having them graded myself though. Garnering a 10 via a personal sub is as good as it gets for me.

TomGshotput

No more or less justified than the different price points in every other product or service ever sold

eagles33

i think justified was a bad choice of words.. don't get me wrong.. i'm pumped when i get back a 10.. so i get it.. it just seems a bit crazy to me some of the huge premiums 10s pull.. the 79 opc gretzky psa 10 is the most extreme example.. i totally get how difficult this card is.. but one slabbed as a 10.. has terrible looking edge.. and i think it was very lucky to get slabbed as a 10... so paying 70k more for the psa 10 slab seems crazy to me. i've only seen scans and pics of it in smr ect.. but it certainly doesn't look like a perfect card to me..

hammered

<< <i>No more or less justified than the different price points in every other product or service ever sold >>




Good point

stevek

To me it is not worth the difference, and it's not even close to being worth it.

"subtle" differences in high grade coins to me is worth the large extra money, but not with cards.

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>If your buying a PSA 10 from the 80's on up it will never hold it's value. That card may be a low pop now but not for long. To much unopened wax out there yet. >>



I'm not so sure. Have you tried finding any 87, 88, and 89 Topps wax packs lately? They are drying up. They can't be found anywhere. I think we'd all better hang on to what we have because in 20 years, they will be worth a lot of money.

>>



i just put in snipes for the 10,234 lots of these available on ebay. LOL

toc1000

A strong 9 looks as good as a 10. Personally I'd be very wary of paying a large premium for a 10...

For instance, would I rather have one 1967 Topps Seaver PSA 10 at $13,000, or: 2 PSA 9s at $3000 apiece along with 8 PSA 8s at $800 apiece? I'd much rather have the 9s and 8s.

DeutscherGeist

As a hobbyist, I always say to buy the card, not the holder. It is not very specific what differentiates a PSA 10 from a PSA 9. You can resubmit a PSA 10 a dozen times and it will not come back a PSA 10 everytime. You all know this is true, which is why I believe the PSA 10 will not sustain its value being so much higher than a PSA 9. Even a PSA 10 card is allowed to have a little off centering. Coins and Paper money are graded on a 1 to 70 scale. That kind of scale takes into account many things on paper currency. The PSA grading scale may have no more than 20 grades. It is not sufficient to differentiate the better condition cards.

I only buy PSA 10 if its a few dollars above the PSA 9. Many star cards of the 1980s are like that.

One day, when a company comes up with the 100 point grading scale, the PSA 10 will drop in value since a more accurate way grading is going to take its place.

waxpack

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If your buying a PSA 10 from the 80's on up it will never hold it's value. That card may be a low pop now but not for long. To much unopened wax out there yet. >>



I'm not so sure. Have you tried finding any 87, 88, and 89 Topps wax packs lately? They are drying up. They can't be found anywhere. I think we'd all better hang on to what we have because in 20 years, they will be worth a lot of money.

>>



i just put in snipes for the 10,234 lots of these available on ebay. LOL >>

Fabfrank

One day, when a company comes up with the 100 point grading scale, the PSA 10 will drop in value since a more accurate way grading is going to take its place.


Isn't that company called SGC?

Estil

<< <i>

I'm not so sure. Have you tried finding any 87, 88, and 89 Topps wax packs lately? They are drying up. They can't be found anywhere. I think we'd all better hang on to what we have because in 20 years, they will be worth a lot of money.

>>



Last I checked, BBCE still has plenty to go around.

toothshucker

Yeah, a 100 point grading scale should have more sensitivity than a 10 point grading system. I'm no statitician, but SGC's 100 point system is only slightly more sensitive than PSA (no pristine grade and qualifiers) and not more sensitive than BVG because it only uses fixed comparative grade points (ie SGC 88 NMMT= PSA/BVG 8 NMMT or SGC 92 NMMT+ = PSA/BVG 8.5 NMMT+ etc).

For example, when examining a card, SGC would be a more sensitive grading system IF they graded a card and used the full compliment of possible grade points, 0,1,2,3...9 for each grade class. This would be based on the cards specific characteristics in that grade (ie. a card met the minimum standards of a NMMT starts at 80 and could grade any where between 80-89 range, again based on the cards specific characteristics- with 89 being the highest NMMT grade possible).

Are ya following me here....?

And PSA could also be a more sensitive grading system by grading the same NMMT card from 8.0 to 8.9 (with 8.9 the highest end NMMT grade).

Taking all things into consideration though, I think PSA, with the addition of half grades (finally!) is a better and more sensitive grading system and yet allows for some variability in opinion. Now if PSA removed qualifiers (please do!). That would create a perfect grading system with the best of all grading worlds- and surely world peace would ensue- no pressure J. Orlando!. Whew, glad that's over. Pete

ThoseBackPages

PSA would be better off without the flimsy slabs. Not only would it be better for protecting the card, but it would make switching out cards more difficult

BunchOBull

I like PSA 2s...

Fabfrank

Toothshucker- good post, and I'm following your train of thought. But you sound almost contradictory. You want a 100 pt grading system (which SGC comes closer than PSA) to reflect the most specific characteristic of a card, yet you want to remove qualifiers. PSA's qualifiers (OC, MC, PD,...) give you just that. A grade for a card and a notation to alert you to a specific characteristic within the grade. Most collectors hate qualifiers because they feel it gives a"Scarlet letter" to a card and lowers it's value. I feel qualifiers do what they are supposed to... give an accurate representation of a cards condition.

ThoseBackPages

but why not just give the card its real grade? why have a qualifier?

it's like saying, heres my perfect 1968 Jaguar, nevermind that the left headlight is missing

toothshucker

Thanks. To me qualifiers are really useless. They create a two tiered grading system, which at best is confusing and at worst the "kiss of death' when trying to sell the card. Would you rather have a 9oc (30/70 side to side centering) or a solid 7. I think the qualifier system was created (at the onset of third party grading) to "help collectors" appreciate a cards certain attributes & defects within relatively high grade material. Those days are past and card collectors are so much more sophisticated today. We get grading (and PSA should take full profs for it!).

Graders are very capable of encorporating defects of any card into one number grade without the use of qualifiers. They already do it- so if a card has a more substantial specific defect (mc, oc, st etc) then Psa graders should encorporate it into one final number grade which represents the overall condition and eye appeal of the card.

For example if a card has severe a severe defect (lets say significant off centering issues) yet meets the other criteria for a 9 mint card- in my eyes- it is not a "mint"card. For me when I send anything out I will request no qualifiers.

In regards to SGC's grading system.... Although in theory it should be more sensitive than PSA or BVG or GAI, they don't use the 100 point scale to its potential. In fact I think they misuse it.

All in all though PSA is still strongest. They had the courage to add half point grading (in part because the market required it), as well as, the recent grade examples page on their website. I say "86" qualifiers. Collectors will deal just fine with the loss of qualifiers. Pete

Fabfrank

it's like saying, heres my perfect 1968 Jaguar, nevermind that the left headlight is missing

I guess when they start grading Jaguars they will have to add the HM (headlight Missing) qualifier to the slab

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to qualifiers. I don't like when I get one on a card, but it's like that aunt with a mole. She's still your aunt and you gotta love her

Ironically, with SGC (which doesn't use qualifiers), I have to check a scan of a card beofre I buy it. I know SGC is lenient on centering, so an SGC 88 or 92 can be off centered. But a PSA 9 OC tells me it's off centered. Thus giving me an accurate grade. I would only need a scan to determine to what degree the card is OC, but I know from the beginning what to expect.
Without the qualifier a buyer is left to guessing.

Garabaldi

Now that we are in the age of the internet, I think it would be great to be able to get information on the card if you log onto PSA. You should be able to get an explaination of how the grade came about. What was the reasoning for it getting a 10 and not a 9. Was it the corners, creasing, centering, color or anything else.

shagrotn77

BunchOBull, I like PSA 2's too :



To get back to the original question, 9's and 10's are basically the same thing. The have hordes of 9's in 10 holders and vice versa, so I do not think the price difference is worth it most of the time. Of course if a 10 will run you say $50 or less, then why not at that level?

toothshucker

Have faith. I know you could tell an off centered card without PSA telling you so. Unless you buy cards site-unseen.

Then stick with BGS/BVG or even GAI. They will be more consistent without the need of viewing the card- if you dare.

Now how do you feel about "diamond cut" card grading- I guess thats for another day/thread. Pete

Fabfrank

Now how do you feel about "diamond cut" card grading- I guess thats for another day/thread. Pete

You're right. Definitely a topic/thread for another day

Andy- That is an awesome Ernie Banks PSA 2. From the scan it looks like at least a 6, maybe 7. Why did it gradea 2?

Garibaldi- Good points but it ain't gonna happen. I can't get an explanation from PSA when a card doesn't grade or when a card should grade a 9 and comes back 5. With the volume PSA does, they don't have the time to critique every card, although it would be nice.

Garabaldi

<< <i>Garibaldi- Good points but it ain't gonna happen. I can't get an explanation from PSA when a card doesn't grade or when a card should grade a 9 and comes back 5. With the volume PSA does, they don't have the time to critique every card, although it would be nice. >>



I agree, but I am surprised they do not have a fee involved if you want an explaination.

shagrotn77

<< <i>Andy- That is an awesome Ernie Banks PSA 2. From the scan it looks like at least a 6, maybe 7. Why did it gradea 2? >>



Small crease along the left border near the bottom. Grade is still too harsh IMO though.

KbKards

SGC doesn't have a 100 point grading system. Only 15 numbers are used, with 5 of the 15 numbers used for cards in the 8 to 10 range. SGC uses no qualifiers which easily address common issues that are difficult to weight into a single agreeable numeric grade. This leaves 10 possible grades that can be assigned to cards from 1 to 7.5.

Fabfrank

SGC doesn't have a 100 point grading system. Only 15 numbers are used, with 5 of the 15 numbers used for cards in the 8 to 10 range

That's an argument in semantics. With SGC 10= PSA1 (pPoor)- to SGC 98= PSA 10 (SGC 100 is considered Pristine) it is a 100 pt system. I see your distinction that SGC only uses the 10, 20, 20 40, 50 ,60, 70, 80, 84, 86, 88, 92, 96 98, 100 numbers, but that's so that it can equate it's grading system to PSA's old 10pt system.

As I have said earlier, I think qualifers make for a more distinct grade. It's just my opinion. We all make the final decision when it comes to buying a card. Buy what makes you feel comfortable.

Blacklabelsociety

Really though i wish psa wouldnt use qualifiers and glad Beckett and sgc do not use them. I never have and would never buy a graded card that has a qualifier.

Fabfrank

Small crease along the left border near the bottom. Grade is still too harsh IMO though.

Wow. I agree. That card is definitely worth a crack and re-submit.