Unusual Morgan dollar strike-through -- Thanks for the input.

RWB

Most strike-throughs are made by small fragments of foreign material sitting on the blank during striking, and look more like blemishes than errors. Occasionally, larger pieces of material will obscure parts of the design and these are actively sought by collectors.

The strike-though pictured below is unusual both for its extent and clarity. The imprint of a piece of fine wire meanders from Liberty’s ear, across her hair, into the field, back across her and ends at the rim above her head. In several small spots, post strike damage overlaps the wire imprint.

Thought some members might enjoy seeing this one. (PS: The center of the obverse die was also partially collapsed.)

Overview



Detail

CaptHenway

I believe that is struck through a hair.
TD

RWB

Seems too thick for hair, and I don't think a strand of hair has enough strength to leave an impression. But, I'll defer to those who handle this kind of thing. I just thought it was an unusual error.

Peaceman

wire....

CaptHenway

<< <i>Seems too thick for hair, and I don't think a strand of hair has enough strength to leave an impression. But, I'll defer to those who handle this kind of thing. I just thought it was an unusual error. >>



Doesn't need strength. The mass of the hair has to go somewhere, and the coin silver is softer than the die steel.
As to the thickness, hair varies in thickness, and/or it may have squished wider under pressure.
TD

ricko

Although I do not know if this was a hair or wire, I do know that a hair will leave an imprint in steel when compressed. Hair is very hard. Cheers, RickO

RWB

Interesting! Now I have to put it back under the microscope and see if any hair/wire details are visible. (Too long to be from a Wire-Haired Terrier.)

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Although I do not know if this was a hair or wire, I do know that a hair will leave an imprint in steel when compressed. Hair is very hard. Cheers, RickO >>



must be why my juh-lette throws sparks when i shave

dsessom

It could have also been a cotton thread or some other type thread. Thread, hair, or just about anything will make an impression into silver when compressed with tons of force. The foriegn object has no where to go, except for into the silver planchet. That is a cool strike through!

Broadstruck

Under magnification is there any trace of Dandruff

RWB

I’ll check my San Francisco Mint employee lists for 1880. I don’t remember seeing the name “Dan Druff” on the list, but maybe that’s his hair.

Raybob15239

Neat strike-thru!

I'm curious... when we have something foreign on the dies, you get the strike thru such as your phot shows... but consider threadlike impressions on certain VAMs, the 1879-S VAM 36 for example... the cootie on the jaw is raised, not incuse, so the impression is on the die itself. How does that happen? Does this happen when trasferring from the hub? I just don't know enough and would be interested in learning more about this, if you could direct me to some reading material? Thanks

Ray

CaptHenway

<< <i>Neat strike-thru!

I'm curious... when we have something foreign on the dies, you get the strike thru such as your phot shows... but consider threadlike impressions on certain VAMs, the 1879-S VAM 36 for example... the cootie on the jaw is raised, not incuse, so the impression is on the die itself. How does that happen? Does this happen when trasferring from the hub? I just don't know enough and would be interested in learning more about this, if you could direct me to some reading material? Thanks

Ray >>



Not familiar with that variety off the top of my head, but during the hubbing operation the die steel is relatively softer than the hub steel, so if some foreign matter were to get between them it could be indented into the die steel.
TD

RWB

The VAMworld web site has a lot of useful information on Morgan and Peace dollar die varieties. It's somewhat confusing to navigate and clarity is occasionally lacking. (The site contributors are all volunteers and they do an exceptional job.)

A strike-through is not part of either die or planchet, and is usually unique. Something like 1879-S VAM 36 occurs when something hard sticks to the hub or incomplete die. Since a Morgan dollar die took from 7 to 10 blows to complete, the defect would likely be effaced unless it occurred on the final blow, or it was present for multiple blows. Location on the coin would also make a difference in visibility.

We don’t know how many dies were condemned before every being used, so this kind of thing might have been more common that suggested by surviving coins.

LoveMyLiberty

<< <i>Neat strike-thru!

I'm curious... when we have something foreign on the dies, you get the strike thru such as your phot shows... but consider threadlike impressions on certain VAMs, the 1879-S VAM 36 for example... the cootie on the jaw is raised, not incuse, so the impression is on the die itself. How does that happen? Does this happen when trasferring from the hub? I just don't know enough and would be interested in learning more about this, if you could direct me to some reading material? Thanks

Ray >>




You may want to go Here

At any stage in the die making process if a piece of foreign matter is present it will
cause a misfigured die that will impart either an incuse, or raised feature of the
foreign matter.


My opinion of the strike through on the OP's coin is it looks like a strand of cloth fiber
due to the jagged direction of the line, where as a hair would be straighter.
But what do I know! Very interesting though.

airplanenut

<< <i>Seems too thick for hair, and I don't think a strand of hair has enough strength to leave an impression. But, I'll defer to those who handle this kind of thing. I just thought it was an unusual error. >>

Did they have Pantene volumizing shampoo back then?

jmj3esq

My guess is a wool fiber strike through.

RWB

From the link:

The master hub is then placed into a hydraulic press, known as a hubbing press, opposite another blank steel bar. These steel bars, usually about 6 inches long, are hardened steel. Several hundred [about 150 tons in the 1880s - RWB] tons of force will be applied as the master hub and the raw steel bar are brought together.

Note that there is a typo (underlined) in the above. It should read "...softened steel."

The incomplete die is heated to "cherry red," which would likely destroy anything clinging to the surface. Therefore, getting more than one blow with debris is unlikely.

mustanggt

Great coin, what year and mint?

RWB

1880-S, approx 8-inch mirrors on the fields. I'd call the chatter on Liberty's cheek MS 63, but I tend to be strict.

chucknra

pretty cool find. congrats. I'd go with a piece of wool.

RWB

Examined the strike-through with 200x magnification. No evidence of fine detail such as fiber impressions, thread twists or other structure. Planning to send it to PCGS; maybe they’ll know what the material was.

FredWeinberg

R -

I probably won't be able to tell what it was struck thru,
especially if you can't determine what, w/ 200 magnification.

It will, in all probablility, be tagged as "Struck Thru Obv.",
with no guess as to what the material was.

Fred

nankraut

<< <i>Interesting! Now I have to put it back under the microscope and see if any hair/wire details are visible. (Too long to be from a Wire-Haired Terrier.) >>

CaptHenway

Here is your answer:

link

BillyKingsley

Very cool strikethrough!

Does the foreign object get thinner the lower down on the coin it is? And did any of the San Fransicso Mint employees in 1880 have a large beard?

Any chance you could post a picture showing the full coin?

RWB

Hairy. Scary. That eliminates a lot of things, like elephants, comets, chicken bones, termites….

Still looks like fine wire to me, but will leave this one to PCGS –

mrdq

I see rubber wear through Stainless Steel every summer so hair impression in silver isn't that odd to imagine.

BigE

PCGS won't tell you what it was struck thru, see above-----------BigE

coinpro

I would say a wire and it's a retained strike through great coin when they stay in the coin the foreign object there worth more of a premium


coinpro

BAJJERFAN

Here is one struck through a sliver of wood. You can see the bare wood inside of the 0 and outside of the 0 it appears to be silver plated. PCGS ms64 and no mention of the strike through on the label.

RWB

Any chance you could post a picture showing the full coin?

Here's the obverse. I adjusted the images when taken to show the wire/hair/sheep parts. Scrapes, etc. have been emphasized.

Unfortunately, nothing from the original object was retained in the coin. The strike-through is uniform in width throughout. It varies some in depth depending on the relief of the design, but most portions are very clear and deeply impressed.



The reverse, has fewer marks, as is commonly found. Overall, it's about like BAJJERFAN's signature line coin...maybe fewer large marks than the sig line obverse coin. The fields are approx 8-inch mirrors.

RWB

Thanks to all for their input on the subject of strike-throughs!