Paypal ain't all bad !!!

Sandhawk

While Paypal fees really suck if you're selling things on ebay / online - paypal is great for a buyer. I have been buying on ebay and online for 10+ years and have never had a problem until recently - maybe it is the economy, maybe it is ???? Anyway, 2 recent experiences I've had lately makes me glad I paid with paypal..........

In November, I bought a rare missile display model off of ebay. After it arrived better than described, I asked the seller if they had any more of these display models and it just so happened that they had one I had been looking for. They sent pics and we agreed on a price of $400 shipped (off of ebay). I paid immediately via paypal - 30 days goes by and no model. I emailed the seller and they were going to check on it. No reply. Sent several more emails and no response. Filed a dispute with PP and seller never responded - end result of $400 back in my account.

Then, in early December, I bought a large Lego toy for my son at an online store and paid via paypal. Chrismas came and went and no toy. Called the seller a few times and they said that they were out of the office and then hung up on me. 2 weeks of this BS and I file a dispute with PP. Seller never responded and I got my $80 back.

I could have been out nearly $500 from these 2 crooks, but fortunately Paypal made things right!

+++++++++++++

Anybody else have any similar experiences with Paypal getting their money back from a crooked seller?

Does it seem to be happening more often in recent times due to the economy?

stinkinlincoln

<<Paypal ain't all bad !!!>>


Yea it is...

BigE

I recently started selling on e-bay again after 6 or so years away so I had to join. I didn't have it before. I really don't mind giving up the 3% or so to get paid more efficiently, though it is a shocker on high dollar items. I do wonder though what pay pal does to try to recoup the $$ in situations like yours though.------------BigE

Sandhawk

<< <i>I do wonder though what pay pal does to try to recoup the $$ in situations like yours though.------------BigE >>



I believe that as soon as you file a claim or dispute, Paypal puts a hold on those funds.....

notwilight

<< <i>

<< <i>I do wonder though what pay pal does to try to recoup the $$ in situations like yours though.------------BigE >>



I believe that as soon as you file a claim or dispute, Paypal puts a hold on those funds.....

>>



Unless the funds are already gone. Then they go the collection route. Paypal takes some losses. They took a relatively large loss to provide me with seller protection on a couple of chargebacks lately--$200 and just under $10,000. --Jerry

DRG

Yes, on the other side....I sold a modern gold PCGS MS70 widget on eBay 2 months ago. I have a seller account and seperate email that I use only for selling. After selling the coin and receiving positive feedback I stopped looking at that account as I was not selling anything else. Yesterday the coin arrives in the mail and Paypal has withdrawn $800 from my bank account...Did I say over TWO MONTHS AGO I sold this coin!!!

The buyer decided he did not like the coin over a month after leaving positive feedback, opened a dispiute, that I did not reply too (since I never heard about it)...paypal found in his favor and then refunded his money.....FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT!!

This is gold bullion!! I stated clearly "NO REFUNDS" unless there was an error..

I am not very happy with PayPal...to say the least...Not much recourse now. I have the coin back and he has my money.....STOLEN FROM MY BANK!@#$!

notwilight

<< <i>Yes, on the other side....I sold a modern gold PCGS MS70 widget on eBay 2 months ago. I have a seller account and seperate email that I use only for selling. After selling the coin and receiving positive feedback I stopped looking at that account as I was not selling anything else. Yesterday the coin arrives in the mail and Paypal has withdrawn $800 from my bank account...Did I say over TWO MONTHS AGO I sold this coin!!!

The buyer decided he did not like the coin over a month after leaving positive feedback, opened a dispiute, that I did not reply too (since I never heard about it)...paypal found in his favor and then refunded his money.....FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT!!

This is gold bullion!! I stated clearly "NO REFUNDS" unless there was an error..

I am not very happy with PayPal...to say the least...Not much recourse now. I have the coin back and he has my money.....STOLEN FROM MY BANK!@#$! >>



You are one of the guys who has his paypal account linked to an e-mail account he doesn't check. I run into that occasionally. If you had checked the email, replied to the dispute, explained to paypal that this is gold bullion, that the price of gold bullion has gone down and that this is "seller's remorse" for that reason, you would have almost certainly won the dispute. At least you got the coin back. Paypal requires they ship the item back before refunding the money. Many credit cards don't require that. --Jerry

DRG

You are one of the guys who has his paypal account linked to an e-mail account he doesn't check. I run into that occasionally. If you had checked the email, replied to the dispute, explained to paypal that this is gold bullion, that the price of gold bullion has gone down and that this is "seller's remorse" for that reason, you would have almost certainly won the dispute. At least you got the coin back. Paypal requires they ship the item back before refunding the money. Many credit cards don't require that. --Jerry

Yes, I have a life and rarely sell anything. I don't like getting all the eBay and PayPal spam to my business email so I have them seperate. However I always check the emails until I have positive feedback. then I check it ounce a month, maybe...

Yes, I may have won if I had responded but why should I have to respond a month later..and couldn't paypal say "it says no returns" or this is gold bullion "A MONTH LATER"....NNNOOOOO!!! No logic on their part. Just doing the job, stealing the money....They suck!

notwilight

<< <i>You are one of the guys who has his paypal account linked to an e-mail account he doesn't check. I run into that occasionally. If you had checked the email, replied to the dispute, explained to paypal that this is gold bullion, that the price of gold bullion has gone down and that this is "seller's remorse" for that reason, you would have almost certainly won the dispute. At least you got the coin back. Paypal requires they ship the item back before refunding the money. Many credit cards don't require that. --Jerry

Yes, I have a life and rarely sell anything. I don't like getting all the eBay and PayPal spam to my business email so I have them seperate. However I always check the emails until I have positive feedback. then I check it ounce a month, maybe...

Yes, I may have won if I had responded but why should I have to respond a month later..and couldn't paypal say "it says no returns" or this is gold bullion "A MONTH LATER"....NNNOOOOO!!! No logic on their part. Just doing the job, stealing the money....They suck! >>




Ok, so if you don't like paypal, try accepting credit cards directly. They have even less seller friendly terms and don't even require that the product be returned to give a refund.

You choose not to read the e-mail, that's your right. But don't whine that you missed your chance to win the dispute. -Jerry

edit to add: The $200 chargeback that paypal protected me from came almost 6 months after the sale when the guy broke up with his girlfriend and claimed all her purchases were "unauthorized". This was a claim made to the credit card, not to paypal.

chucknra

I've actually only had good experiences with PayPal.

gsaguy

Here's what I think of Paypal

OPA

<< <i>I've actually only had good experiences with PayPal. >>



I've been selling & buying on eBay for about 10 years, and I've got to agree with the above statement. I've never lost a nickel as a seller or buyer. ( Guess I'm part of the silent majority and not the crying minority)

SilverEagles92

<< <i><<Paypal ain't all bad !!!>>


Yea it is...

>>

Coinlearner

No problems on the selling side....YET............They refunded me 400 for 2 silver bars and 900 for a Saint $20 from sellers that are "no longer a registered user"( They went poof)...Also helped moving the seller along,with no/slow shipping,after a dispute/claim filed....Still I would much rather deal at a B&M or here on BST forum,as have zero trouble and no fees.

lcoopie

you said outside of ebay
but don't forget

"On October 3, 2002, PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay"

MsMorrisine

credit card companies can accomplish the same thing...

keets

PayPal per se isn't bad, the concept of it. what is bad in the equation is that eBay forces a seller to use PayPal for payments. while i have no data to prove as much it's hard to believe that the switch hasn't lessened activity there and curtailed the use of many members. that is how it's affected me.

TwoSides2aCoin

Pay pal is like a car that gets 6 miles per gallon when gas is five dollars per gallon. Beats walkin', but not by much.

MsMorrisine

from an anti-paypal web site that may have viruses in it (paypalsucks.com)


$4500 frozen:


<< <i>We operated an eBay business and sold between 700-1000 items per month. Paypal randomly decided to limit our account. We complied with all of their demands and they still closed the account.

Now we have $4500 tied up in the account. I am debating whether to just say screw it- and make all of the recent eBay purchasers mad with Paypal and eBay (because eBay account closing is inevitable). Or actually take legal action

The amount is $4500...which is pretty high. Any suggestions?
>>




$6500 problem:


<< <i>So I have an ebay account with over 200 postive in the last 6 months alone. I am 100% on my feedback. Anyway paypal decided to freeze my account because I had to much business going through. Ebay then also froze my account dut to paypal. Needless to say my buyers could not get in touch with me and they file complaints with paypal saying item not received , not as described blah blah blah. Paypal decides that EVERY last one of my buyers even from December is entitled to their momey back. So no I am negative $6500 and no way to recoup. UGH!
>>




no one has a problem with paypal until they have a problem with you

coindeuce

MsMorrisine, your links have viruses attached according to my anti-virus program.

MsMorrisine

links removed


what viruses?

and what software are you running?

my McAfee didn't pick them up


edit:

ok... I think this is what was displayed by coindeuce's software:



<< <i>
Danger: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection.

The page you are trying to access has been identified as a known exploit, phishing, or social engineering web site and therefore has been blocked for your safety. Without protection, such as that in the AVG Security Toolbar and AVG, your computer is at risk of being compromised, corrupted or having your identity stolen. Please follow one of the suggestions below to continue.
>>





This is a "we're keeping track of web sites that are unfriendly or with potentially unfriendly users for you and this one made the list" instead of a virus.

There could be users of this web site that are into stealing PayPal and eBay info....

shorecoll

My only complaint is that I know what it costs them to do ACH transfers and they do their best not to pass any of that on to customers. There wouldn't be many compaints if they handled your transactions for a dime each, and they would still make a lot of money processing them for a dime. ACH costs do not vary by amount, they can transfer $1MM for a dime and still make money.

One thing that scares me about Paypal and many other e-commerce related companies is that they are not regulated entities, i.e. banks, so anything they do they do because they want to...if they ever get hacked for $1B, they'll just fold and open tomorrow as PP2, with no compensation to anybody, they have no ability to recover from such an event.

BigRick

botanist

I was an original member of paypal, from when it first started, long before being acquired by ebay, and I've used it all along, both buying and selling, at fairly low volume. The paypal/ebay corporate business model has over the years gradually tilted more and more in favor of buyers, and they probably chose to go that route in order to generate more and higher sales. In other words, they think buyers are now the main limiting factor, in number and amounts of sales. If a buyer claims they didn't receive something, that buyer always gets the benefit of the doubt, even if you have proof of mailing. You need evidence of delivery to counter. It's especially a problem in sending to certain overseas and third world countries which have underpaid postal employees and where pilferage is rampant. Here in the U.S. most postal losses are caused when items are macerated by automatic processing equipment, so it's imperative to pack securely, meaning with at least sturdy tape in all directions on the outside, and leaving no protruding flaps to be snagged.

Ebay's rules explicitly do NOT allow the enforcement of a seller's statement that no returns will be allowed. Last time I looked, a buyer has 45 days to open a dispute. Large-volume sellers just have to factor the occasional dishonest, unfair or nasty ebay buyer into their costs of doing business. And sellers cannot even initiate negative feedback.

At least PayPal now has a phone number where they can be easily reached, and they are very polite and pleasant over the phone. In previous years, you couldn't contact them without doing cartwheels while spitting wooden nickels.

Russ

<< <i>from an anti-paypal web site that may have viruses in it (paypalsucks.com)


$4500 frozen:


<< <i>We operated an eBay business and sold between 700-1000 items per month. Paypal randomly decided to limit our account. We complied with all of their demands and they still closed the account.

Now we have $4500 tied up in the account. I am debating whether to just say screw it- and make all of the recent eBay purchasers mad with Paypal and eBay (because eBay account closing is inevitable). Or actually take legal action

The amount is $4500...which is pretty high. Any suggestions?
>>




$6500 problem:


<< <i>So I have an ebay account with over 200 postive in the last 6 months alone. I am 100% on my feedback. Anyway paypal decided to freeze my account because I had to much business going through. Ebay then also froze my account dut to paypal. Needless to say my buyers could not get in touch with me and they file complaints with paypal saying item not received , not as described blah blah blah. Paypal decides that EVERY last one of my buyers even from December is entitled to their momey back. So no I am negative $6500 and no way to recoup. UGH!
>>




no one has a problem with paypal until they have a problem with you >>



There are two sides to every story, and that site doesn't bother to present both.

Russ, NCNE

OPA

<< <i>

<< <i>from an anti-paypal web site that may have viruses in it (paypalsucks.com)


$4500 frozen:


<< <i>We operated an eBay business and sold between 700-1000 items per month. Paypal randomly decided to limit our account. We complied with all of their demands and they still closed the account.

Now we have $4500 tied up in the account. I am debating whether to just say screw it- and make all of the recent eBay purchasers mad with Paypal and eBay (because eBay account closing is inevitable). Or actually take legal action

The amount is $4500...which is pretty high. Any suggestions?
>>




$6500 problem:


<< <i>So I have an ebay account with over 200 postive in the last 6 months alone. I am 100% on my feedback. Anyway paypal decided to freeze my account because I had to much business going through. Ebay then also froze my account dut to paypal. Needless to say my buyers could not get in touch with me and they file complaints with paypal saying item not received , not as described blah blah blah. Paypal decides that EVERY last one of my buyers even from December is entitled to their momey back. So no I am negative $6500 and no way to recoup. UGH!
>>




no one has a problem with paypal until they have a problem with you >>



There are two sides to every story, and that site doesn't bother to present both.

Russ, NCNE >>






<< <i>Paypal randomly decided to limit our account. >>

... What a bunch of bs....more likely because of neg. fb from Buyers. ( listed just one to many home slabbed coins as a 70 )

NewParadigm

Paypay haha cartoon


And yeah it is all bad

MsMorrisine

I agree to a point as well.

after some probing questions,,,, just as on here,,,, it does sometimes turn up that it is the users fault and not PayPal's.

However, I was a follower of the news when a couple of the Attornies' General action went public.

It's not all false or twisted against PP....

GFourDriver

I don't even know if I can talk to you any more now that you're GFiveDriver.

gsaguy

Still rubs me the wrong way when Paypal says they'll release funds once positive feedback is posted, does so on a number of sales that were for less than $100, but sits on one for over $650 until I send them a nasty-gram with liberal use of the F-bomb. Within 2 minutes of sending that second message (in the first one I was Mr. Nice Guy) they gave me my funds. It shouldn't have to come to that.

Now, they're still sitting on a few hundred dollars of mine and have removed the information previously posted with the release dates. I suspect they plan to hold those funds long past the original release dates.

I understand protecting the buyers, but not all sellers are thieves.........and certainly all buyers aren't saints.

Personally, I suspect they're treading on some thin ice as it relates to their business practices related to handling other's money. I hope someone drops the hammer on them, soon and hard.

Sandhawk

<< <i>I don't even know if I can talk to you any more now that you're GFiveDriver.

>>




Don't worry, I'll come down to your level every once in a while to chat..........

GFourDriver

<<<Don't worry, I'll come down to your level every once in a while to chat..........>>>

I'll wear my drool bib!

Classof67

<< <i>

<< <i>I've actually only had good experiences with PayPal. >>



I've been selling & buying on eBay for about 10 years, and I've got to agree with the above statement. I've never lost a nickel as a seller or buyer. ( Guess I'm part of the silent majority and not the crying minority) >>



Count me in with that silent majority. 13 years buying and selling,. several thousand transactions. About $2,000 paid to me in claims for items not received, no problems as a seller. I follow the rules, and treat both my buyers and sellers like I want to be treated. Now, I've probably just jinxed myself!

notwilight

<< <i>... and treat both my buyers and sellers like I want to be treated. ... >>



Good strategy. --Jerry