How many Platinum American Eagle coins were lost in 2008?

botanist

Several threads in different forum categories on this site mention that during the platinum shortage of 2008 (when mining output in South Africa was curtailed) and the spot price per ounce exceeded $2200, platinum coins were melted down or smelted in substantial numbers. Do we have any hard evidence for that being done with American platinum eagles, or is it merely random supposition and anecdotal?

CaptHenway

We had people selling us platinum, including eagles, to take advantage of the bubble, and laid them off to one of the bullion houses that specializes in platinum and palladium. Some we drop shipped to people that were buying from him, but several batches were sent, on his behalf, to a refinery back East.

So, yes, some platinum eagles were melted down in 2007 and 2008.

TD

derryb

I have never seen any evidence, hard or soft, of melting platinum eagles. I think that anyone smart enough to have bought a platinum coin is smart enough to know it will always be worth more as a platinum coin.

Edited to add:

TD has turned me around on this one.

CaptHenway

<< <i>I have never seen any evidence, hard or soft, of melting platinum eagles. I think that anyone smart enough to have bought a platinum coin is smart enough to know it will always be worth more as a platinum coin. >>



What do you need to see? Our FEDEX airbill copies to the refinery?

When supply greatly exceeds physical demand, such as inevitably happens in a bubble market, the bullion can be worth more than the coin. Look at what happened to silver coins in 1980. People were melting Proof Franklins!

TD

TWQG

I know of two 2007 one ouncers that hit the pot because that's what my local B&M did with them.

botanist

Many thanks for those helpful replies. Please allow this follow-up question: Since everybody knows that platinum coins have added fabrication value, and that American platinum eagles are 99.95% pure platinum, and thus require little or no refining, wouldn't they be the absolute very last platinum sources to be melted down? Even if sold for ordinary bullion, and even if shipped to a commercial refinery, might most of them ultimately have been held in reserve, and therefore preserved?

(edited to correct the percentage of purity)

CaptHenway

Not if the people buying the platinum were desperate to create deliverable bars to fulfill contract deliveries.

That was what happened with silver in 1980. The Hunt Brothers bought up huge quantities of silver futures, and then demanded delivery. By law the people who sold those contract HAD to come up with the physical silver, and that meant that perfectly useable and attractive sterling silver teapots and flatware had to die to make 100 ounce pure bars.

TD

Zubie

Do you think any of the refineries write down what they melt. I have no idea...just curious.

jmski52

TD, what dates were involved? Were Proofs included in addition to the regular issue bullion?

clouisejewelers

The MSNS spring 2008 show was very exciting and busy due to the high metals prices. I personally killed some 2007 W burnished platinum Eagles I had bought from the mint just a few months back for a substantial profit. I also sold some proof and unc first spouse gold coins. Silvertowne had buckets behind their table at the show. They took my coins, broke them out of the holders, and unceremoniously dumped them into their respective buckets(gold or platinum). There were a lot more coins in there. I asked why the heck they were melting them when everyone knew they were pure platinum or gold and a nice round weight, and they said their buyers wanted the metal in a different form i.e .large bars.

I will never forget seeing those large plastic buckets with shiny new proof and Unc US Mint coins destined to be destroyed...

CaptHenway

<< <i>TD, what dates were involved? Were Proofs included in addition to the regular issue bullion? >>



We did not record the dates.
If there were any Proofs melted, they were impaired pieces out of the government plastic as sometimes comes in over the counter.

TD

OPA

<< <i>The MSNS spring 2008 show was very exciting and busy due to the high metals prices. I personally killed some 2007 W burnished platinum Eagles I had bought from the mint just a few months back for a substantial profit. I also sold some proof and unc first spouse gold coins. Silvertowne had buckets behind their table at the show. They took my coins, broke them out of the holders, and unceremoniously dumped them into their respective buckets(gold or platinum). There were a lot more coins in there. I asked why the heck they were melting them when everyone knew they were pure platinum or gold and a nice round weight, and they said their buyers wanted the metal in a different form i.e .large bars.

I will never forget seeing those large plastic buckets with shiny new proof and Unc US Mint coins destined to be destroyed... >>



If I recall accurately, the same thing happened at the Balto show that year or the previous. Silvertowne was the busiest dealer at the show, with full buckets of silver coins, gold & platinum to be melted.

clouisejewelers

At the shows I attend and have a table Silvertowne is always the busiest.

jmski52

There seems to be a rash of scuffed-up, beat-up, and ratty-looking *raw* Plats, both "impaired uncs" and "impaired proofs" on ebay right now.

Somebody decided to throw their "melt bucket" onto fleabay.

I've wondered how some MS-61 Modern Bullion coins will compete with MS-69s & MS-70s. Now, we will find out. If you've always wanted some guaranteed "low pop" coins, this is probably a good opportunity, or even for that platinum "pocket piece" that you've been wanting....