A walk down Jefferson memory lane with a 1989 population report

sinin1

I mostly collect Jeffersons and got a September 1, 1989 PCGS for kicks and giggles and to see how PCGS has grown and what was getting slabbed back then.

the following is a pic of the early Jeffersons
the darker 3 columns are for 63 64 65
only 3 Jefferson nickels graded in MS67 for entire series

the highest I found was (19558) MS64 1881-S Morgan dollars which is a large chunk of the 140707 MS64 Morgans certified at that time

BigDowgie

sinin1,

Wow, it almost looks like a few collectors sent their sets in for grading along with some of their nice extras. Also, somebody must have found a roll with a bunch of 1943/2's? Look at the pops for this one!

I would like to see the first few Pop Reports when they started designating FS and Rev38 and Rev40. I would also like to see how many coins from 1939-P/D/S got classified as Rev38 when they started distinguishing the two step types? The pops on the Rev38s are dead wrong, as all the previously graded coins all went to Rev38 PCGS# when we know most of them were probably Rev40 coins.

How many old Pop Reports can you get your hands on? I'll send you a PM with something I'm working on.

Dowgie

sinin1

the 1943/2 population possibly could be someone finding a roll, but more likely related to the value and market of the coin at the time

in 1989, submissions were restricted to dealers I think

and I would guess not many Jeffersons were worth more than $50

illini420

sort of cool that only one person had a 1946 PCGS nickel at that time

hope this thread doesn't get poofed for posting pop report information

keets

I would also like to see how many coins from 1939-P/D/S got classified as Rev38 when they started distinguishing the two step types? The pops on the Rev38s are dead wrong

if i'm not mistaken, when PCGS first started to differentiate between the two Reverse Types they moved all of them to the "Reverse of 1938" row and left it up to collectors/dealers to figure things out. they really didn't have any choice.

BigDowgie

keets, from what I understand, that is what happend. Unfortunately, not all collectors submitted their coins to get them designated correctly. I know exacly why some didn't, they wanted the MS67 Rev38 holder in their registry sets, even though the coin is a Rev40. The Rev40's are the most common reverse for the 1939-P. While looking at auctions, I locate one every now-and-then. For some reason I can't find the reverse of this one, but it's a Rev40!



Over the years, I've seen multiple more of these MS67 Rev38's that were Rev40's. It sure would be nice if these could be cleaned up. I sent pictures of one of them to PCGS about a year ago that was in a Teletrade Auction with their nice side-by-side pictures. If it was in a Registry Set, they could send them a note that the designation is wrong or something. Maybe even a reduced fee (or no fee) to fix it. No need to say what happened!

Dowgie

leothelyon

<< <i>the 1943/2 population possibly could be someone finding a roll, but more likely related to the value and market of the coin at the time

in 1989, submissions were restricted to dealers I think

and I would guess not many Jeffersons were worth more than $50 >>



That's how I would look at it. Whenever a low pop coin sells for good money, this influences additional submissions. Roll submissions would be like someone making 21 PCGS MS65 1949 nickels or 20 MS66 1949 Jefferson nickels.


Leo

FullStepJeffs

<< <i>keets, from what I understand, that is what happend. Unfortunately, not all collectors submitted their coins to get them designated correctly. I know exacly why some didn't, they wanted the MS67 Rev38 holder in their registry sets, even though the coin is a Rev40. The Rev40's are the most common reverse for the 1939-P. While looking at auctions, I locate one every now-and-then. For some reason I can't find the reverse of this one, but it's a Rev40!



Over the years, I've seen multiple more of these MS67 Rev38's that were Rev40's. It sure would be nice if these could be cleaned up. I sent pictures of one of them to PCGS about a year ago that was in a Teletrade Auction with their nice side-by-side pictures. If it was in a Registry Set, they could send them a note that the designation is wrong or something. Maybe even a reduced fee (or no fee) to fix it. No need to say what happened!

Dowgie >>




These mis-identified reverse of 40 coins show up all the time. I would really like to know how many true reverses of 38 there are in some of the populations.

Steve

leothelyon

ANACS had the same problems but started differentiating the reverses so there pops may be more accurate. Anyone searching either coin for an extended period of time will understand the availability of the two types.


Leo

leothelyon

It's also interesting to note the difference or popularity of both the 1939 DMont and the 1943/2-P at that time. The 1939 DMont was discovered the same year while the 1943/2-P discovery was in 1947 but wasn't recognized until 1977*.


Leo

* "The Jefferson Nickel Analyst" by Bern Nagengast

badger

Do you have the proof pops also? Was cameo a designation then??


Regarding the R38 issue: I have bought at least one MS67 that turned out to be R40 instead of the desired R38. Paid too much money as a result (but not the full price for the R38)

Dave

keets

by my way of thinking anyone who has a true 1939-P/D/S Reverse of 1938 and knows what it is/the true value most probably had it re-holdered by now. i could be wrong(and i'll bet you guys will tell me as much!!) but that would lead me to believe that most of the earlier, undesignated holders left are Reverse of 1940. further, most of the undesignated Reverse of 1938 coins are probably held by collectors who know what they are and want them to stay in their respective coffins.

leothelyon

Before PCGS started grading FS nickels, I was aware of who had the Full Step 1939 reverse of 1938 nickels in the ANACS holders all except the MS67 5 step coin. I believe there were 6 or 7 for all grades. I did manage to increase the pop to 3 for the MS66 coins. But there wasn't that many that received the 5 step designation. The 1939-D Reverse of 1938 were just as rare. I won a couple of these coins on ebay and they were not FS in the sense of 5 complete steps. This was something that I came to learn later how important that quarter 6th step counted towards such a designation.
But your best source for population percentages can be found in Bern Nagengast book, "The Jefferson Nickel Analyst"

Leo

sinin1

for the proofs, no CAM or DCAM designations used

the copper did have the RD RB BN
the Morgans had the PL and DM designations
Franklins did NOT have the FBL designation
Standing Liberty Quarters had the FH designation
Mercury dimes did have the FB designation



as far as the 1939's go, are you guys saying the price guides do not jive with rarity?

does anyone have a rough estimate production for each mint (percentage wise)?

JeffersonFrog

...

sinin1

besides the steps - are there any pick-up points that can tell if 38 or 40 reverse on the 1939's?


every once in awhile I find the wheelchair ramps on a 39 and then scratch my head

sinin1

does anyone know when they started designating the reverses?


of the 1939 business strikes - which are the rarest? 1939 rev of 38 and 1939-S rev of 40 ?

there must be many rev of 38 that would now get FS but didn't when first graded because of the step weakness

BigDowgie

sinin1 - I started a post that talks about your question. Sort on "Jefferson" and you will see it.