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Little antique shop of horrors!
D
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So I've been absent from the forums for some time; absent from coin buying. I went out today after classes to look at some coins or antiques because one of my bar regulars is a part-owner of an antique store. He knows nothing of the coins he sells but he has a specialist there who 'knows more than a 22 year old does'.
The story goes: I walked inside and said hi to Jim, said friend, and began to browse around the store. Upon looking at coins in the first B&M I had been to in years I was super disappointed in the quality of coins. Cleaned coin after cleaned coin. Bad coins altogether and even fake coins. Dismissing my negativity, I talked to Jim longer until someone that worked at the store had a book of Mercury dimes. He had sets that were half full, nearly full, and even...completely full? The 1916 D came out of the page in a little stapled holder and I thought to myself hah, maybe a diamond in the rough. The expert examined the coin and said "Ah, heavily cleaned." So, without looking I said, "Ah, sounds like 400$." cordially. After asking to look at the dime, I noticed it had not only been cleaned, there were two huge nicks on the bands and even scratches. While looking at the cleaned reverse I almost failed to notice it was a counterfeit. I told the dealer kindly that I didn't believe the coin to be real and he responded harshly and snatched the dime away from me.
He then responded with a gem of a statement asking how old I was and enlightening me that he had been looking at Mercury dimes since before I was born. He knew more than me, because he was older than me. Not one to take negativity or ill-mannered responses I had one of my own. "Sir, with no due respect; being older means one thing most definitely, you've forgotten more than me. Not to mention your eyesight has no doubt deteriorated while acquiring so much wisdom." I then told him how there were at least three things wrong with the coin before it being a fake. They include: The coin is heavily cleaned, the coin had huge dents in the reverse, the coin was scratched, the coin appeared to be an EF40 1916-D Mercury dime and was NEVER holdered or protected better than the more trashy coins in the booklet.
Naturally my negative response wasn't received well and the dealer was even more bitter to find out that the only coins I collect are from 1916. I was asked to leave the shop and my bar regular was left laughing at the debate and calling my cellphone upon my departure.
Leaving the store I drove to another shop, told him of the ill-advised coin dealer (Without mentioning the shop name, or dealer name) and then went ahead and bought multiple items from his inventory...only after carefully inspecting three 1916-D Mercury dimes with my loupe.
-D
The story goes: I walked inside and said hi to Jim, said friend, and began to browse around the store. Upon looking at coins in the first B&M I had been to in years I was super disappointed in the quality of coins. Cleaned coin after cleaned coin. Bad coins altogether and even fake coins. Dismissing my negativity, I talked to Jim longer until someone that worked at the store had a book of Mercury dimes. He had sets that were half full, nearly full, and even...completely full? The 1916 D came out of the page in a little stapled holder and I thought to myself hah, maybe a diamond in the rough. The expert examined the coin and said "Ah, heavily cleaned." So, without looking I said, "Ah, sounds like 400$." cordially. After asking to look at the dime, I noticed it had not only been cleaned, there were two huge nicks on the bands and even scratches. While looking at the cleaned reverse I almost failed to notice it was a counterfeit. I told the dealer kindly that I didn't believe the coin to be real and he responded harshly and snatched the dime away from me.
He then responded with a gem of a statement asking how old I was and enlightening me that he had been looking at Mercury dimes since before I was born. He knew more than me, because he was older than me. Not one to take negativity or ill-mannered responses I had one of my own. "Sir, with no due respect; being older means one thing most definitely, you've forgotten more than me. Not to mention your eyesight has no doubt deteriorated while acquiring so much wisdom." I then told him how there were at least three things wrong with the coin before it being a fake. They include: The coin is heavily cleaned, the coin had huge dents in the reverse, the coin was scratched, the coin appeared to be an EF40 1916-D Mercury dime and was NEVER holdered or protected better than the more trashy coins in the booklet.
Naturally my negative response wasn't received well and the dealer was even more bitter to find out that the only coins I collect are from 1916. I was asked to leave the shop and my bar regular was left laughing at the debate and calling my cellphone upon my departure.
Leaving the store I drove to another shop, told him of the ill-advised coin dealer (Without mentioning the shop name, or dealer name) and then went ahead and bought multiple items from his inventory...only after carefully inspecting three 1916-D Mercury dimes with my loupe.
-D
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
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Yet another messenger ... shot on sight.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>So I've been absent from the forums for some time; absent from coin buying. I went out today after classes to look at some coins or antiques because one of my bar regulars is a part-owner of an antique store. He knows nothing of the coins he sells but he has a specialist there who 'knows more than a 22 year old does'.
The story goes: I walked inside and said hi to Jim, said friend, and began to browse around the store. Upon looking at coins in the first B&M I had been to in years
-D >>
Not exactly a "B&M," as that term is commonly used to refer to a full-time coin store.
I do know what you mean. When I was with Collectors Clearinghouse at Coin World I was in my 20's. At a Penn-Ohio show I tried to explain to a dealer why a certain error coin in his case was a fake die multi-strike, and got the same "I've been in the business since before you were born so I must be right" BS. Didn't matter that I wrote the column on error coins.
That is why I am proud to be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild. I know what I am doing, as do other PNG members.
TD
<< <i>The coin is heavily cleaned, the coin had huge dents in the reverse, the coin was scratched, the coin appeared to be an EF40 1916-D Mercury dime and was NEVER holdered or protected better than the more trashy coins in the booklet. >>
I believe you when you say the coin was fake, but the reasons you gave do not mean the coin was fake. Was it an added D? A Chinese counterfeit? There are many, many cleaned and scratched authentic coins that haven't been properly "protected" out there.
Why did you jump in with the comment "sounds like $400"? Then you inserted yourself into the transaction without invitation and declared the coin counterfeit, offending the dealer in front of his customer (whether you were right or wrong in your judgment is irrelevant).
You then got the typical, worn out crack from an old hand annoyed by a brazen youth. It was lame and said from disgust. But your attempt at a tactful reply was insensitive. Did you have to remark on his memory and eyesight? How did you expect he'd react from your comments? You pissed him off, you whippersnapper.
I just think you could have managed it better.
Lance.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
In regard to this story I would have just asked the dealer how he knew it was real because there are a lot of counterfeits out there. If there is a whitty comeback, then I would point out why it's obviously a counterfeit.
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin is heavily cleaned, the coin had huge dents in the reverse, the coin was scratched, the coin appeared to be an EF40 1916-D Mercury dime and was NEVER holdered or protected better than the more trashy coins in the booklet. >>
I believe you when you say the coin was fake, but the reasons you gave do not mean the coin was fake. Was it an added D? A Chinese counterfeit? There are many, many cleaned and scratched authentic coins that haven't been properly "protected" out there. >>
"I then told him how there were at least three things wrong with the coin before it being a fake. They include: The coin is heavily cleaned, the coin had huge dents in the reverse, the coin was scratched, the coin appeared to be an EF40 1916-D Mercury dime and was NEVER holdered or protected better than the more trashy coins in the booklet. "
I think if you re-read what I typed you'll understand that I wasn't citing those as reasons for the coin being fake. (My line was taken out of context; as I was citing other problems with the coin.)
The reason it was fake was because it had the wrong style D on the coin. Not only that but it was out of position and sat on a sort of 'pedestal'. I'm not sure how I would've handled the situation much differently but I most definitely think my jovial joke about $400 was harmless. I did find out today that he spent $1100 on the dime though
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>Sounds to me the guy took umbrage over your comments and the way you said them.
Why did you jump in with the comment "sounds like $400"? Then you inserted yourself into the transaction without invitation and declared the coin counterfeit, offending the dealer in front of his customer (whether you were right or wrong in your judgment is irrelevant).
You then got the typical, worn out crack from an old hand annoyed by a brazen youth. It was lame and said from disgust. But your attempt at a tactful reply was insensitive. Did you have to remark on his memory and eyesight? How did you expect he'd react from your comments? You pissed him off, you whippersnapper.
I just think you could have managed it better.
Lance. >>
Again, I think you misunderstood what I typed, I was the customer, the dealer was chattering with the other employee at the shop. I did not bring up another customer.
Thanks for the clarification Tom. (:
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
when you specialize in a certain area for quite a while and spend an enormous amount of time
in that area you gain deep understanding of it. Regardless of age. I recently learned a little something on A Morgan dollar VAM that I did not know from a 17 year old. Thought it was very cool. I personally seek out expert opinions such as yours
to further my knowledge of a certain series. I have learned though that not all people appreciate
those opinions. I have recently learned to keep my opinions on the few series that I study to myself
unless specifically asked, or if it someone I know very well that will not be offended I hate to see people get burned
on coins. Sometimes that is all it takes is one good burn on a coin purchase for someone to throw in the towel on the whole
hobby.
Stew
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds to me the guy took umbrage over your comments and the way you said them.
Why did you jump in with the comment "sounds like $400"? Then you inserted yourself into the transaction without invitation and declared the coin counterfeit, offending the dealer in front of his customer (whether you were right or wrong in your judgment is irrelevant).
You then got the typical, worn out crack from an old hand annoyed by a brazen youth. It was lame and said from disgust. But your attempt at a tactful reply was insensitive. Did you have to remark on his memory and eyesight? How did you expect he'd react from your comments? You pissed him off, you whippersnapper.
I just think you could have managed it better.
Lance. >>
Again, I think you misunderstood what I typed, I was the customer, the dealer was chattering with the other employee at the shop. I did not bring up another customer.
Thanks for the clarification Tom. (:
-D >>
Thanks for pointing that out, Daniel. Apologies for misunderstanding. You were the customer and you were not jumping into someone else's negotiation. My bad.
He sounds like a cranky old man with little tolerance for young adults, especially those who probably know more and challenge his "greater experience". It puts you in a tough spot and it is hard to resist letting him have it.
Cranky old men are hard to win over. I hope I don't become one some day.
Lance.