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Strange looking Lincoln Prez Proof

This was in one of the proof sets I got yesterday. It has these odd looking concentric circles. The reverse looks normal. Any idea what this is or what caused it?

image
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Comments

  • image I like it, no idea how it happened.
    image

  • looks like something with the dies.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow! Cool coin, looks like it was made to look that way from the Mint?
  • rickoricko Posts: 89,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What does the reverse look like? Cheers, RickO
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Possibly something occurred during the galvano transfer?
  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    We have a few of them as well
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,010 ✭✭✭
    I'd say the mint polished the dies a bit too hard...



    -Paul
  • hypnotized
  • ClosedLoopClosedLoop Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    looks like some kind of orange peel effect,pretty cool.
    figglehorn
  • HyperionHyperion Posts: 7,425 ✭✭✭
    "target toning"

    image
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,885 ✭✭✭
    Looks like the die is galled. Either it heated up very hot or it was subjected to very high stresses (forces). Either way, it happened wile it was rotating. perhaps the polishing tip came off the polishing machine and the die was spun against the mandrel. --Jerry
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭
    Those are (appear to be) lathe marks from a specific machining process during the die making process at the US Mint.

    I recently read an article regarding these and a Jefferson Nickel but for the life of me cannot find it! image

    Although not a proof coin there is a similar thread over on the CONECA Die Variety Forum.

    Since more than one has shown up, you can bet that an article will appear in another month or so at one of the big magazines explaining it.

    In the mean time, I'll keep looking.

    NOTE: DUE TO revealed events it has been shown that its the Plastic Holder which is showing these lines. I edited my post to add (appear to be) vs a positive "Those are". Lathe marks are a real error which can occur.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭
    I found an article on the CONECA home page referencing a business strike 1996-D Lincoln cent.

    Hubs/Dies are created from steel rods which are cut and then machined so that the end receiving the impression of the coin is cut with a slight conical surface.
    This is where the lathe comes into play and what produces these lines.

    I would think that finding them on a Proof Coin much less a Lincoln Proof would be unusual.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • Any way you look at it it's image....I like it ...image
    ......Larry........image
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Abe in the Twighlight Zone Variety.

    Extremely cool.

    image
  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    So would this be considered a mint error - struck with unfinished dies?


  • << <i>Abe in the Twighlight Zone Variety.

    Extremely cool.

    image >>



    Abe of the Looney toons variety maybe ?

    image
  • Cool, received 10 sets today. Found one out of 10.

    Not as evident as the one pictured, but glad to find one. image
    image

  • image

    If one looks long enough, his tie does start to spin. image


    Same coin moved about 1/4 inch for the light.

    image
    image

  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    I tried to take pic's of ours but it is not easy!!!! I'll try again a bit later
  • How about a weak eyes Lincoln.

    image

    image


    From the same box of ten sets.

    image

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,626 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like it.


    can't wait to see if it is attributed.


    now I'm sad that I cancelled my order so I could combine it with others to save on shipping...


    image
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    Ok, here we go with our pic's - Sorry for the lighting, couldn't seem to capture any other way

    image

    Also found one of these

    Franklin Pierce

    image
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    About ten years ago I found one in roll searching.There very hard to photograph/or scan.
  • Much harder to see but found a Millard Fillmore with the same rings.
    image

  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like it's spreading through out the proof set!!!!


  • << <i>What does the reverse look like? Cheers, RickO >>



    The reverse looks normal on my coin.

    Thanks for the links and the explanation Lee!
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What does the reverse look like? Cheers, RickO >>



    The reverse looks normal on my coin.

    Thanks for the links and the explanation Lee! >>



    Ditto.
  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭
    Did anyone take the coin out of the plastic?

    I just received my 12 sets and found all 4 of them looking this way.
    One of the lincolns looked worse so I removed it from the plastic and will put in my Dansco.
    It was clean. the markings I think are on the plastic.

    Could someone verify thier coins?

    Rookie Joe
  • errormavenerrormaven Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭
    I've never seen anything like it. The concentric rings look too irregular to be concentric lathe marks. Perhaps a screw-up during polishing?
    Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭✭
    Quality control would never allow a coin die in this condition to be installed into a proof coining press. This anomaly must be occurring during the striking procedure, what that is, I'm not quite sure. "Chatter" comes to mind.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭
    Here is a pic of the capsule: the best that I could take

    What do you think?

    The concentric circles look the same.

    Joe

    image
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,885 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Quality control would never allow a coin die in this condition to be installed into a proof coining press. This anomaly must be occurring during the striking procedure, what that is, I'm not quite sure. "Chatter" comes to mind. >>



    Exactly how does "quality control" work? --Jerry
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Quality control would never allow a coin die in this condition to be installed into a proof coining press. This anomaly must be occurring during the striking procedure, what that is, I'm not quite sure. "Chatter" comes to mind. >>



    Exactly how does "quality control" work? --Jerry >>



    With the Mint..."randomly"

    Looks like the blister pack is the culprit.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Quality control would never allow a coin die in this condition to be installed into a proof coining press. This anomaly must be occurring during the striking procedure, what that is, I'm not quite sure. "Chatter" comes to mind. >>



    Exactly how does "quality control" work? --Jerry >>



    With the Mint..."randomly"

    Looks like the blister pack is the culprit. >>



    well horse on me! image
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • Dang, "Buy the coin, not the plastic". image
    image

  • Wow! I guess it is the plastic. It's strange how the circles are only visible in the fields though.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dang, "Buy the coin, not the plastic". image >>

    image
    Becky
  • mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    OOPS!!!!image
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,626 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>OOPS!!!!image >>




    ooops is right.

    I was happy to receive mine and find some like this.

    It is strange that the rings appear over the fields.


    These sets seem to have fewer spots than last year, however there are more marks on them.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Pretty cool though!
    Save $$$ on many purchases to include EBAY and EBay Stores.

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  • even though its the plastic, maybe Abe is trying to warn us image


  • << <i>Wow! I guess it is the plastic. It's strange how the circles are only visible in the fields though. >>


    image....I guess we have a lot to learn....image
    ......Larry........image
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭
    Although they look like it, I do not think those lines could have happened during the lathing process -

    The lathes are used to reduce a large plaster sculpted design to a smaller, steel copy...

    For one thing, the size of the grooves in the fields of that coin are too big to be consistent with the detail present in the rest of the devices.

    Secondly, the end result of the reduction process is a 'positive' design - this becomes a 'master' that is then pressed into other pieces of steel to create the actual dies used for coining. It is impossible to imagine a mistake like that happening during the lathing process being unnoticed when the dies were made, let alone having such dies go on to make coins.

    My best guess is that whatever caused this happened while preparing an individual die.

    One possibility, is that lasers were used to render the dies for this issue - the Mint does have this technology, and they do utilize it on occasion, such as on with those wildlife medals that came out around 2004. To my mind, it is conceivable that a laser might have went out of calibration and created the look you are seeing.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Although they look like it, I do not think those lines could have happened during the lathing process -

    The lathes are used to reduce a large plaster sculpted design to a smaller, steel copy...

    For one thing, the size of the grooves in the fields of that coin are too big to be consistent with the detail present in the rest of the devices.

    Secondly, the end result of the reduction process is a 'positive' design - this becomes a 'master' that is then pressed into other pieces of steel to create the actual dies used for coining. It is impossible to imagine a mistake like that happening during the lathing process being unnoticed when the dies were made, let alone having such dies go on to make coins.

    My best guess is that whatever caused this happened while preparing an individual die.

    One possibility, is that lasers were used to render the dies for this issue - the Mint does have this technology, and they do utilize it on occasion, such as on with those wildlife medals that came out around 2004. To my mind, it is conceivable that a laser might have went out of calibration and created the look you are seeing. >>



    Read the thread.........................the lines are from the cheap plastic holders the US Mint is buying from Chi..............well.........somewhere.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭
    I know that these lines have been identified as a problem with the holders, but I wanted to share what lathe lines look like on a proof coin. This one is an Accented Hair Kennedy in an ANACS slab:

    image

    Note that the lines only show up on the wings whereas evrything else seems to be just fine.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This might explain it:

    Lincoln
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan | Texas Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,433 ✭✭✭✭
    The more times I look at that Lincoln............



    the more I like the background.

    I wonder why the US Mint doesn't consider soemthing like this?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bump for interesting topic. I wish more pictures had survived. What a wild optical illusion!?

  • rickoricko Posts: 89,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This created quite a stir back nine years ago.... and it all turned out to be a 'tempest in a tea pot'....Too bad the pictures have, for the most part, been lost. Cheers, RickO

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