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Please grade this 1858 "Small Letters" FE (warning, folks, it's seen some circulation)

kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
in U.S. Coin Forum
Please grade and describe any problems or other relevant issues; thanks!

image

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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    OK, I didn't want to do this, but I'll start the ball rolling. F-12, no problems with it. Now, slam away... image
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 36,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good-4, It would make G-6, but the "one cent" is weak.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>Good-4, It would make G-6, but the "one cent" is weak. >>


    That's why I didn't want to start. Thanks for your opinion, Bill. image

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 7,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think GD 06.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    AhrensdadAhrensdad Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    I don't see anything to slam. Nice honest wear. Looks like a nice G-4.
    Successful BST Transactions with: WTCG, Ikenefic, Twincam, InternetJunky, bestday, 1twobits, Geoman x4, Blackhawk, Robb, nederveit, mesquite, sinin1, CommemDude, Gerard, sebrown, Guitarwes, Commoncents05, tychojoe, adriana, SeaEagleCoins, ndgoflo, stone, vikingdude, golfer72, kameo, Scotty1418, Tdec1000, Sportsmoderator1 and many others.


    Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    F12 with weak strike in center of reverse. Looks like it may be a little porous, too. Way too much detail on eagle and in wreath for G.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,285 ✭✭✭
    G4 (I assume the picture looks grainy but not the coin.)
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The ONE CENT is always shallow in the die on the low leves reverse. It is not a weak strike. I wouldn't hold that against the coin for grading purposes. F-15 (just barely makes it)
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    In-hand, I wouldn't describe the surface as grainy, but I will go along with some porosity, evenly-distributed, perhaps, one might even say, consistent with the grade the coin's in. I reached an F-12, like John, for the same reasons, basically; namely, on that obverse detail, which is somewhat inconsistent with the weak "ONE CENT" going exclusively to wear. If that should make any grading sense...
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    LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭
    Questionable color. Net G6. No sticker. image
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>The ONE CENT is always shallow in the die on the low leves reverse. It is not a weak strike. I wouldn't hold that against the coin for grading purposes. F-15 (just barely makes it) >>


    Wow! Rick, with all due respect, you mustn't type at the same time I'm typing, I might say something stupid! In this case, though, it looks like I lucked out. I wish to thank you (and all), sincerely, for taking a look at this poor little guy. image

    PS: Longacre, that "pink" is just the picture, if that's what you're referring to...
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the PCGS PhotoGrade F-12 (their reverse is a High leaf)

    imageimage


    Your coin:

    image
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    Ah, I see that. I saw in that other thread, too, Rick, where you pointed out that the 1858 "Large Letters" is also a high relief, while the "Small Letters" is a low (or, lower) relief. I can make that out very clearly, now. I really appreciate this.
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,256 ✭✭✭✭✭
    G4. The weak "ONE CENT" is a major negative and would make the coin a hard sell at any higher grade.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 36,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is the "acid test." Would anyone pay Fine-12 for this coin? Which one would you buy? The coin in the PCGS Fine-12 holder or this coin?

    Sometimes the term "market acceptable" works in the collector's favor.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    291fifth, check out the center-reverse on this PCGS F-12 30-Degree CCW "Small letters"/"Low Relief": LINK.
    (edited to add the link right)
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    Bill, let me assure you, I'm not trying to sell this coin based on these pictures, I'm trying to enable you folks to condition-grade it based on these pictures. Credit that to my camera setting (a set White Balance), which, BTW, caused them to came out somewhat pinkish for that. I had to do it that way because my camera's color balance is all fouled up.
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,256 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice coins are still bringing very strong prices in today's market ... but ... coins that have major negatives, such as weakly struck areas, are not. Do you think a potential buyer of that coin is going to overlook the generally grainy surfaces and the weak "ONE CENT" when it comes time to make a cash offer? In another thread I mention that I am increasingly viewing US numismatic coins as "product." The coin that is the subject of this thread is a coin I would pass on unless it was very heavily discounted.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456


    << <i>Nice coins are still bringing very strong prices in today's market ... but ... coins that have major negatives, such as weakly struck areas, are not. Do you think a potential buyer of that coin is going to overlook the generally grainy surfaces and the weak "ONE CENT" when it comes time to make a cash offer? In another thread I mention that I am increasingly viewing US numismatic coins as "product." The coin that is the subject of this thread is a coin I would pass on unless it was very heavily discounted. >>


    But for the coloring in the pictures which I hope/trust were sufficiently explained away would you put the coin I had just linked to in the same company for the same reasons? Just asking...
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gee, Fine bid is $33, Good bid is $22. An extra $11 for detail on the feathers and wreath - You betcha, it's worth it.

    Edited to add: I don't buy G's, VG's and F's, but if I did I'd buy it.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭✭
    It's not a G coin, if you want to be picky, net it out to a VG for the mushy one cent. As Rick points out, the value difference isn't that great.

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