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cross denomination die clashes in 1857
sinin1
Posts: 7,500 ✭
There seem to be some die clashing across denominations occuring around 1857
flying eagle cent with liberty seated quarter, liberty seated half, and Liberty Eagle $20
to get the clashing, there had to have been one of each of the dies being struck at the same time
are there any records of mules made this year?
or did a mint employee just forget to remove the cent piece all the time?
anyone have any ideas or theories?
flying eagle cent with liberty seated quarter, liberty seated half, and Liberty Eagle $20
to get the clashing, there had to have been one of each of the dies being struck at the same time
are there any records of mules made this year?
or did a mint employee just forget to remove the cent piece all the time?
anyone have any ideas or theories?
0
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Good reading - perhaps Snow has it digitized and can post it??
EAC 6024
This is the one clashed with a 50c, it caused the area that looks like a CUD (it's not a CUD).
<< <i>There seem to be some die clashing across denominations occuring around 1857
flying eagle cent with liberty seated quarter, liberty seated half, and Liberty Eagle $20
to get the clashing, there had to have been one of each of the dies being struck at the same time
are there any records of mules made this year?
or did a mint employee just forget to remove the cent piece all the time?
anyone have any ideas or theories? >>
I was the one who first identified these as dual-denomination clash marks, so I got dibs on theories.....
I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) that these are the result of night watchman Theodore Eckfeldt placing mismatched dies in the screw press that they kept around the mint for various purposes, WITHOUT A COLLAR, placing a planchet of some kind atop the lower die, and swinging the arm of the press. This could be done by one person, who would have trouble getting the steam-powered pulley system up and running to power a regular coin press.
Let's say that he made one or two or three of one particular mule when the planchet fell off of the lower die during the swing and the dies clashed together. He could have stopped, put the dies back in the vault (his father was Chief Coiner, with keys to the vault) and made the other mules at some later date, or he could have placed another die pair in and made more mules until those dies clashed. The third muling could have taken place at a still later date, or later that same night.
Theodore Eckfeldt is strongly suspected of having made several Class II 1804 silver dollars in 1858. These were struck without a collar. Only one Class II remains, which happens to be struck over an 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler. The remaining Class II pieces were mechanically edge lettered and sold by Mint officials at a later date. You can tell that the edge lettering was applied after the strike on the Class III coins. Perhaps the Mint officials felt that the 1857 uderstrike on the remaining piece would look suspicious if they tried to sell that one as well.
Eckfeldt sold the Class II coins around Philadelphia, but the Mint bought them all back and successfully covered up the scandal.
The hypothetical mules that I believe Eckfeldt struck could have been bought back and covered up at the same time. I cannot prove it.
As I say, this is a theory. Chris Pilliod also has a plausible theory. Unfortunately, until I get my flux capacitor fixed we will never be able to prove either theory.
TD
Multidenominational clash marks have been found on other coins (not just ones minted in 1857), for example:
1864LM 2-cent piece with cent clash marks
1868 3-cent piece with cent clash marks
1870 nickel with cent clash marks
If you look you can clearly see the outline of the Seated designs reverse eagle.
Rick (Eagle Eye) has a ton of information regarding these clashes (several different for this date exist). Most of the more convincing suggestions are that the anvil die of the cents and the silver and gold issues having different dies (obverse and reverse), and however it happened (accidental, deliberate, tomfollery), once the clash happened, the next few dozen strikes resulted in the varieties available today.
As far as I know, no mules exist, so it appears accidental ... even it did happen more than once and with more than one denomination combination.
oopps ... didn't see the Captain's editted post ... good info' there
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
TD - Thanks for the alternate theory!
I used to own the Fivaz S8 with the ANACS certificates - did he discover that variety??
<< <i>until I get my flux capacitor fixed we will never be able to prove either theory
TD - Thanks for the alternate theory!
I used to own the Fivaz S8 with the ANACS certificates - did he discover that variety?? >>
Yes.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
PS I've seen it happen to top notch organizations too. It is easy to move from the top to the bottom if you get overconfident, complacent, or distracted. There is often a cyclic nature to organization performance.