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Some comments about natural luster

This was embedded in another post, but it might be of interest to others. In general this applies to production coins from about 1850 to 1970. (Exceptions mostly occur in Morgan dollars where some dies were rebasined before initial use.)

The reasons finding well struck 1921 [Peace dollars] that also have appealing luster relate to die life and the origin of luster.

New dies had a smooth, satin-like surface. As they were used, metal flow in the dies created the fine lines collectors identify as luster. In extreme cases, metal flow became so severe that prominent lines radiating from the center of the die became evident. This effect is called “starburst.” Thus, appealing luster is an attribute of dies that have been in use for several hundred (or thousand) coins or more.

1921 dies were in high relief and it required all the pressure a production press could apply to strike a coin with most of the design detail evident. But doing this created excess stress on the dies and resulted in early die failure – early enough that die luster only partially developed.

By reducing striking pressure, die life was extended, but at the cost of poor high point detail. These coins invariably have nice luster but insufficient central design detail.

Assuming an unaltered specimen, coins exhibiting attractive luster generally were made from mid- to later-life dies. New dies produced coins with limited luster, but had the potential for maximum detail. (Buffalo nickels, SL quarters, WL halves, 1921 Peace dollars are prime examples.)

Comments

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Excellent information, thanks for posting this. It will help to clarify the term for new collectors. Cheers, RickO
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162
    Super info Roger. image
  • SurfinxHISurfinxHI Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for that!!
    Greg
    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    Thanks!!
    Becky
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485
    Is this guy a fantastic source of information or what?!!image
  • IGWTIGWT Posts: 4,975
    New dies had a smooth, satin-like surface. As they were used, metal flow in the dies created the fine lines collectors identify as luster. In extreme cases, metal flow became so severe that prominent lines radiating from the center of the die became evident. This effect is called “starburst.” Thus, appealing luster is an attribute of dies that have been in use for several hundred (or thousand) coins or more.

    I believe this explains, in part, why it is so difficult to find truly lustrous Shield Nickels. The dies for Shields tended to break before they had a chance to develop the flow lines that cause the quality of coruscation that we call "cartwheel" luster on coins. Henry Linderman, during his first of two stints as Director of the Mint, complained in his first annual report (1867) that the nickel panchets “had worn out the Mint’s machinery and broken an enormous number of dies.” D. Taxay, The U.S. Mint and Coinage at 246 (1966). “Because of the hardness of the coinage metal, the limits on the diameter of the coin and technology of the period, the [Shield Nickel] dies lasted for only 10,000 to 15,000 coins per die pair.” E. Fletcher, The Shield Five Cent Series at 16 (1994). Noted numismatic researcher Bob Julian has conducted extensive research of relevant documents at the National Archives and “reports that ‘the average number of 5-cent coins from each pair of dies was well under 15,000.’” G. Peters & C. Mohon, The Complete Guide to Shield & Liberty Head Nickels at 4 (1993) (quoting R.W. Julian). QDB also relies upon Julian’s research in writing that “somewhat fewer than 20,000 impressions for the 1866 and 1867 With Rays type improving to about 20,000 to 21,000 for the Without Rays nickels of the earlier years, and rising to about 26,000 by 1882.” Q.D. Bowers, A Guide Book of Shield and Liberty Nickels at 72 & n.19 (citing personal communication with Julian in June 2005).
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    great, now i have one more fine point to while away the hours thinking about!!!image
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great info!

    RWB...ever notice that some super lusterous 1921 peace dollars tend to have semi circular flow lines?

    Eduted to add: I meant to say semi circular die polish lines, not semi circular flow lines.image
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for that information, RWB, and the post RE shield nickels was very informative as well.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Astute collectors can use this information to help them buy superior coins at similar cost as ordinary pieces.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the tidbit - useful info NOT only to new collectors. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Astute collectors can use this information to help them buy superior coins at similar cost as ordinary pieces. >>



    image
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so can you have both great luster and strike?
    or is that combination rare?
    LCoopie = Les
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    With some series you can likely have both. With others possibly not. At least the information can help you make better decisions.
  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RWB
    As others said, this is valuable information -- thanks. Did you source this information from somewhere specifically or is it just accumulated knowledge?

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    The info results from searching and reading thousands of mint documents, then correlating pieces of information. The one post might have 200+ direct and indirect source citations in archival materials. It also is dependent on collector definitions of "luster" and related terms and descriptions. Add to those, observations by many of coins across multiple design series and especially from known die states.

    The key part is distilling everything into a few lines that provide a high-level, simple description that doesn’t take too much background knowledge to understand. (If you add the details, you could end up with a small book.)
  • You say this depends on the coin series, what book is the best source for this ?

    This does not explain the halo affect I've seen on many mint state coins where their is a ring around the portraight with no luster. This does explain the prooflike & semi prooflike intense cartwheel effect but it doesn't explain luster breaks to the left of the portraight on bust coins or to the right of the portraight on seated or barber coins.
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.

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